Pan (DBGT) vs. First Form Frieza

[Lukmendes]

The problem here is that you can count the inconsistent feats such as all that on one hand and still have fingers left over. You more or less just described half of the inconsistent feats in the series.

I mean, it's also suggested for someone as strong as Tao Pai Pai to have been killed by a fucking grenade, it ultimately wasn't the case, but nobody considers he could have survived.

Before this, there's also Goku getting very injured by being shot by a specially strong revolver, despite how fucking strong he became by that point.

Even with just what I listed before, Goku training under 10x gravity and taking forever to get used to it is fucking ludicrous considering he's strong enough to blow up moons, yet 10x gravity made him struggle?

In DBS, him and Vegeta are wearing suits so heavy they sink into the ground when not worn while before even meeting Beerus Goku was casually lifting large weights bigger than him on King Kais planet.

In DBS, in the same arc, Vegeta in SS form couldn't lift a robot that weighted 1000 ton too lol.

Dragonball is actually highly consistent when compared to say; comic characters with multiple writers. The notion that it isn't based on a couple instances isn't quite accurate.

Characters training under higher gravity is a big deal for early DBZ and it's mentioned once in Boo saga too, the characters are planet bursters and they struggle under small increases of gravity, they aren't particularly strong despite how impossibly strong they are, and yes, I'm aware how little sense that sentence makes, but that's how they're like lol.

As far as Vegetas gravity training is concerned; it wasn't the gravity itself that was the problem, as he could move around fine. It was the hours of non-stop training combined with the gravity that gave him trouble. And keep in mind that increasing the gravity is more than just an increase in overall body weight; everything is made heavier, from the bones, muscle, fat, organs, everything. It is essentially a full body work-out where even your fingers are made heavier.

https://www.livescience.com/33294-wh...0as%20redwoods.

^the fact that thick trees would fall apart is rather telling. Especially when that is the scenario if gravity simply doubled.

DB treats higher gravity training as it being like lifting heavier weights, and it's still ridiculous for planet bursters to struggle under even 100x gravity lol.

Anyone who reaches Roshi's level during the 21st tournament is strong enough to destroy at least moons, someone that strong should logically be able to walk around in 10x gravity just fine, and post 23rd tournament Goku, who's blatantly far stronger than 21st tournament Roshi, couldn't move around under 10x gravity that well, that's ridiculous.

Toriyama has himself said that he's pretty bad with numbers. So while he might be good at keeping the general power dynamics consistent, he's not great with giving them numerical values.

I'm not even sure if that's true, but it sounds like Toriyama even if it isn't lol.

Oh so it is. I somehow missed that in the comics. Honestly strange because like I said, Toriyama is pretty good about keeping track of the power relationships, but I can give him this.

It's still wildly inconsistent with things Goku was doing when he was eleven.

Toriyama has a weird sense of scale, characters keep growing stronger to ridiculously impossible levels yet they may not look that strong in specific situations, and there are a bunch of weird examples like this, like how Goku in Resurrection of F is knocked down by a fucking laser, while in Blue, it was so silly that the anime version made it less silly by at least it hitting him on the back after he went back to base form.

The best explanation I have for this is that, characters ki based powers are stronger than their physical strength, but even that doesn't make much sense considering that punches and kicks can do some real damage, and even if I was right, the difference between a kamehameha and a punch would be so ridiculously high that no punch should ever damage opponents lol.

It's why I think it's best to not really overthink DB, it functions on rule of cool, written by a guy with a memory bad enough he once thought Super Saiyan 3 was Super Saiyan 2, so yeah, it's a dumb fun comic about punching people.

Could also be that Toriyama never intended the characters to be physically strong enough to punch apart planets

But that doesn't make much sense, for example, Goku uses a kamehameha with kaiokenx20 on Freeza, who's only using 50% of his power, blocks that kamehameha, and the kamehameha is definitely strong enough to destroy planets, yet, it only hurts Freeza a little, then, once Goku goes SS1, any casual punch or kick he did on Freeza did far more damage than his Kamehameha with kaiokenx20 did.

Like I said above, Toriyama has an odd sense of scale, at least when it comes to lifting strength, characters have energy beams strong enough to destroy planets, and can become strong enough to throw punches that are stronger than those energy beams, yet, may struggle at incredibly low levels of gravity.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Could also be that Toriyama never intended the characters to be physically strong enough to punch apart planets

On the other hand, they were based on Journey to the West, but in a Science Fantasy world, and that book has Son Wu'Kung do things like beat up constellations, jump to the end of the universe, full the world (universe?) with heavy winds, and use the core of the Milky Way as a melee weapon.

Also, regarding Tao Pai Pai, that grenade was considered his own secret back up weapon, and he has contacts that can turn him into a cyborg even stronger than he already was. For all we know, that grenade was built but someone on par with Dr. Gero (or even Gero himself, considering that would be one explanation as to how the Red Ribbon Army could get in contact with him).

As for Goku getting dropped by a laser in SSB form, my main problem with that scene was that it required Goku to fall to the type of sucker punch that he had been digging since at least Namek. For the beam itself, it was alien tech designed to take down someone who had presumably already defeated Golden Frieza, by an army that had tech needed to turn Frieza into an even stronger (than his Namek-era version, anyways) cyborg around a decade earlier.

[Lukmendes]

On the other hand, they were based on Journey to the West, but in a Science Fantasy world, and that book has Son Wu'Kung do things like beat up constellations, jump to the end of the universe, full the world (universe?) with heavy winds, and use the core of the Milky Way as a melee weapon.

Also, regarding Tao Pai Pai, that grenade was considered his own secret back up weapon, and he has contacts that can turn him into a cyborg even stronger than he already was. For all we know, that grenade was built but someone on par with Dr. Gero (or even Gero himself, considering that would be one explanation as to how the Red Ribbon Army could get in contact with him).

No dialogue indicates the grenade was out of the ordinary, and the same arc at least said that a revolver was modified to be stronger to explain why it hurt Goku (Even if that still has its weird issues).

Also dialogue about Tao Pai Pai doesn't indicate that he was in contact with Red Ribbon before, and sure, that could be retconned, but nothing about Tao Pai Pai's past was retconned even after Gero was introduced.

As for Goku getting dropped by a laser in SSB form, my main problem with that scene was that it required Goku to fall to the type of sucker punch that he had been digging since at least Namek. For the beam itself, it was alien tech designed to take down someone who had presumably already defeated Golden Frieza, by an army that had tech needed to turn Frieza into an even stronger (than his Namek-era version, anyways) cyborg around a decade earlier.

And that's ridiculous, Golden Freeza is stronger than almost everything to the point his power outclasses even Boohan, and this power is far above Freeza's preview level, so they somehow came up with some laser that can knock down someone in Blue level? Ridiculous, just mass produce those lasers and give to random mooks so they can take down any threat then lol.

[The Drunkard Kid]

No dialogue indicates the grenade was out of the ordinary, and the same arc at least said that a revolver was modified to be stronger to explain why it hurt Goku (Even if that still has its weird issues).

Also dialogue about Tao Pai Pai doesn't indicate that he was in contact with Red Ribbon before, and sure, that could be retconned, but nothing about Tao Pai Pai's past was retconned even after Gero was introduced.

Nothing was said about the grenade at all, except that it was the final resort of a massively superhuman guy in a society that had electric rice cookers 300+ years ago, who has contacts that were able to successfully turn him into an even more massively superhuman cyborg. Dr. Gero is just an example of the type of mind available on DB Earth.

And that's ridiculous, Golden Freeza is stronger than almost everything to the point his power outclasses even Boohan, and this power is far above Freeza's preview level, so they somehow came up with some laser that can knock down someone in Blue level? Ridiculous, just mass produce those lasers and give to random mooks so they can take down any threat then lol.

Even assuming that mass producing that level of tech is even possible, it would be unnecessary overkill for anything that isn't Golden Frieza level, and useless against anything that *is* Golden Frieza level and actually paint attention, due to the massive speed differential involved. Plus, Frieza would probably murder anyone who had that level of weaponry anywhere near him without his express permission.

[Lukmendes]

Nothing was said about the grenade at all, except that it was the final resort of a massively superhuman guy in a society that had electric rice cookers 300+ years ago, who has contacts that were able to successfully turn him into an even more massively superhuman cyborg. Dr. Gero is just an example of the type of mind available on DB Earth.

Even so, the lack of dialogue over whether or not the grenade is special can indicate the grenade itself isn't anything special, just that someone in Tao Pai Pai's level can still be killed by a grenade, what exactly DB characters can tank gets weirdly arbitrary at times.

While DB's world is weird, if a technology they came up with has a grenade being super special when the same arc indicated a revolver is super special, I can't see why they wouldn't just say so if it was supposed to be the case.

Even assuming that mass producing that level of tech is even possible, it would be unnecessary overkill for anything that isn't Golden Frieza level, and useless against anything that *is* Golden Frieza level and actually paint attention, due to the massive speed differential involved. Plus, Frieza would probably murder anyone who had that level of weaponry anywhere near him without his express permission.

Freeza's army was being crushed for years to the point they became desperate enough to resurrect him, something they explicitly didn't want to do, so yeah, I don't see the problem with being "unnecessary overkill" when they're losing that badly, so fact they have the technology to make a laser that can knock down someone on Freeza's level, then it's pretty ridiculous they need to bring back Freeza to begin with.

Best explanation is what you suggested of them not being able to mass produce it, otherwise it's just ridiculous they were being crushed that bad.

[choptop]

Why wouldn't they be able to mass produce it? At least on a small scale?

[Cody]

I mean, it's also suggested for someone as strong as Tao Pai Pai to have been killed by a fucking grenade, it ultimately wasn't the case, but nobody considers he could have survived.

In a scifi world with portable pocket dimensions(capsules) are a thing alongside highly advanced cyborgs, flying cars, and lasers, then I think it is safe to assume without much explanation.

Before this, there's also Goku getting very injured by being shot by a specially strong revolver, despite how fucking strong he became by that point.

This ignores both the context(when they let their guard down, they aren't using their ki to enhance their durability, also see the fight with Jiren when 17 managed to mark his back),and the fact that both before and after that we see him casually catch bullets in his hand with zero damage to him.

Even with just what I listed before, Goku training under 10x gravity and taking forever to get used to it is fucking ludicrous considering he's strong enough to blow up moons, yet 10x gravity made him struggle?

I already explained why it's more than him being simply 10x heavier however, and this was mostly prior to the android saga.

In DBS, in the same arc, Vegeta in SS form couldn't lift a robot that weighted 1000 ton too lol.

That's because Toyotaro is an idiot, and hasn't grown past that of a sub Par fanfiction writer. Note that wasn't the case in the anime, and even he contradicts himself later when Vegeta flicks a building away.

Characters training under higher gravity is a big deal for early DBZ and it's mentioned once in Boo saga too, the characters are planet bursters and they struggle under small increases of gravity, they aren't particularly strong despite how impossibly strong they are, and yes, I'm aware how little sense that sentence makes, but that's how they're like lol.

it doesn't make sense because you're going out of your way to ignore every single point I made about gravity changes.

DB treats higher gravity training as it being like lifting heavier weights, and it's still ridiculous for planet bursters to struggle under even 100x gravity lol.

hasn't been a thing since training for the androids

Anyone who reaches Roshi's level during the 21st tournament is strong enough to destroy at least moons, someone that strong should logically be able to walk around in 10x gravity just fine, and post 23rd tournament Goku, who's blatantly far stronger than 21st tournament Roshi, couldn't move around under 10x gravity that well, that's ridiculous.

Roshi required a build up and everything he had to destroy the moon, to the point he essentially had to transform into a Hulk like state just to do it.

Toriyama has a weird sense of scale, characters keep growing stronger to ridiculously impossible levels yet they may not look that strong in specific situations, and there are a bunch of weird examples like this, like how Goku in Resurrection of F is knocked down by a fucking laser, while in Blue, it was so silly that the anime version made it less silly by at least it hitting him on the back after he went back to base form.

Blame the animators of the movie I'd say.

The best explanation I have for this is that, characters ki based powers are stronger than their physical strength, but even that doesn't make much sense considering that punches and kicks can do some real damage, and even if I was right, the difference between a kamehameha and a punch would be so ridiculously high that no punch should ever damage opponents lol.

As explained above(and in the show) when one lowers their guard, it is more literal in Dragonball. They are actively not using their ki to enhance their durability. And Saiyans base line durability is to be slightly annoyed by bullets.

It's why I think it's best to not really overthink DB, it functions on rule of cool, written by a guy with a memory bad enough he once thought Super Saiyan 3 was Super Saiyan 2, so yeah, it's a dumb fun comic about punching people.

Except if we use this logic, 90% of showings and feats go out the window for all mediums, not just Dragonball(comics would be hit even harder here).

But that doesn't make much sense, for example, Goku uses a kamehameha with kaiokenx20 on Freeza, who's only using 50% of his power, blocks that kamehameha, and the kamehameha is definitely strong enough to destroy planets, yet, it only hurts Freeza a little, then, once Goku goes SS1, any casual punch or kick he did on Freeza did far more damage than his Kamehameha with kaiokenx20 did.

It hurt Frieza enough to royally piss him off, while the ssj state made Goku more than twice as strong as that, so yea, I don't see the problem here.

Like I said above, Toriyama has an odd sense of scale, at least when it comes to lifting strength, characters have energy beams strong enough to destroy planets, and can become strong enough to throw punches that are stronger than those energy beams, yet, may struggle at incredibly low levels of gravity.

That used to be the case back in the android saga and prior,yes(see also Gokus weighted clothing), but hasn't been the case since Buu. In fact they were using a lot heavier now(see bodysuits which would have to be made out of dwarf star material in order for them to sink in the ground) and Goku stood up in a condensed blackhole so heavy it was making Goku and the androids sink into the arena made out of the strongest material in their multiverse.

[Cody]

Even so, the lack of dialogue over whether or not the grenade is special can indicate the grenade itself isn't anything special, just that someone in Tao Pai Pai's level can still be killed by a grenade, what exactly DB characters can tank gets weirdly arbitrary at times.
While DB's world is weird, if a technology they came up with has a grenade being super special when the same arc indicated a revolver is super special, I can't see why they wouldn't just say so if it was supposed to be the case.

Prior to that you had a Red ribbon commander use a super hand gun on Goku in RR snow tower. It's kinda to be expected.

Freeza's army was being crushed for years to the point they became desperate enough to resurrect him, something they explicitly didn't want to do, so yeah, I don't see the problem with being "unnecessary overkill" when they're losing that badly, so fact they have the technology to make a laser that can knock down someone on Freeza's level, then it's pretty ridiculous they need to bring back Freeza to begin with.

Goku wasn't on Friezas level when he was shot by the laser.

Best explanation is what you suggested of them not being able to mass produce it, otherwise it's just ridiculous they were being crushed that bad.

Only if the context is ignored.

[choptop]

I never realized what a bad ass pan actually is she can probably beat anyone but finel from Frieza and even then she can probably hang with him for awhile and she can't even go SS or kaioken good for her.

[Anarchist]

As far as inconsistencies go, my two to-go examples are both from Cell. First of all, him somehow absorbing enough humans to become significantly stronger than Piccolo, even though normal human beings are basically Ants to the Z Fighters by this point, not even absorbing the whole Globe should've boosted him that much.

Then of course there is Cell vs Tien. Even though I actually like this one, it's one of the most clear-cut cases of SMvsFL ever. And no, Cell not being hurt and "only" pushed down does not make it any better, not even this should've happened, especially considering how huge the Power Gap between Tien and Cell was at this point, and how Nappa, with a much lower Power Gap, wasn't even pushed away.
And yes, before you come with the technicalities again, I know that it was not literally the same attack, but it's basically the same kind of difference between a Kamehameha and a Super-Kamehameha. Same technique, same way it works, just stronger.

[Lukmendes]

This ignores both the context(when they let their guard down, they aren't using their ki to enhance their durability, also see the fight with Jiren when 17 managed to mark his back),and the fact that both before and after that we see him casually catch bullets in his hand with zero damage to him.

Goku as a kid has more than one situation where he takes a hit he didn't expect and was fine afterwards, he once even got hit while barely conscious and his reaction to it was "You know, that coulda hurt me!" so this defense or lack of it ain't consistent lol.

I already explained why it's more than him being simply 10x heavier however,

The way DB itself treats heavy gravity is just lifting heavier weights, Dr. Briefs talking about it only mentions how much heavier Vegeta would become under heavy gravity, and not all of the other ways heavy gravity could kill him.

and this was mostly prior to the android saga.

Irrelevant, characters have been at least moon bursters since early on, it's ridiculous for moon bursters to struggle with 10x gravity.

That's because Toyotaro is an idiot, and hasn't grown past that of a sub Par fanfiction writer. Note that wasn't the case in the anime, and even he contradicts himself later when Vegeta flicks a building away.

While I do think Toyotaro is a hack writer, considering that it is DB manga canon that Goku struggled to lift 40 tons without transforming, the situation with Magetta really isn't a far fetched inconsistency with DB lol.

Hell, worth keeping in mind Toriyama supervises the manga anyways, and there are confirmed situations where he made corrections and even changed stuff that Toyotaro did, like his idea of Belmond and Marcarita being lovers, something Toriyama removed, if Toriyama had a problem with Vegeta not managing to lift Magetta then it'd be changed or removed.

it doesn't make sense because you're going out of your way to ignore every single point I made about gravity changes.

I mean, DB doesn't use realism when it's using gravity changes, it's just treated as lifting heavy weights, at no point it's even implied stuff like internal damage would be a problem, so yeah, your points about gravity are whatever to me because DB doesn't treat gravity realistically, or semi realistically, it's only a way of making characters lift heavier weights.

Roshi required a build up and everything he had to destroy the moon, to the point he essentially had to transform into a Hulk like state just to do it.

And Goku is casually stronger than Hulked up Roshi back in saiyan saga even before he got to train with Kaio, he's a moon burster.

Blame the animators of the movie I'd say.

The movie is written by Toriyama, the idea of the laser knocking down Goku is his', the screw up is his'.

As explained above(and in the show) when one lowers their guard, it is more literal in Dragonball. They are actively not using their ki to enhance their durability. And Saiyans base line durability is to be slightly annoyed by bullets.

The laser would still need to be really absurdly strong to injure someone on that level.

[quote]Except if we use this logic, 90% of showings and feats go out the window for all mediums, not just Dragonball(comics would be hit even harder here).

I mean, my point is about internal consistency even when it's written by one guy, and Toriyama has his own weird inconsistencies.

If this was a more serious manga, then it could be a deal breaker, but DB is just a silly comic about punching people, so inconsistencies like this aren't that bad (Stuff like the Cell plot hole are far bigger narrative problems anyways), overthinking it ain't worth it 'cause Toriyama himself may forget details like this, and the manga is just goofy fun.

It hurt Frieza enough to royally piss him off, while the ssj state made Goku more than twice as strong as that, so yea, I don't see the problem here.

You're just disagreeing for the sake of it, my entire point is that characters have to be stronger than energy beams for the damage they're causing to make sense, it's just questionable for them to be that strong yet also struggle under heavy gravities that should logically be nothing to them.

That used to be the case back in the android saga and prior,yes(see also Gokus weighted clothing), but hasn't been the case since Buu. In fact they were using a lot heavier now(see bodysuits which would have to be made out of dwarf star material in order for them to sink in the ground) and Goku stood up in a condensed blackhole so heavy it was making Goku and the androids sink into the arena made out of the strongest material in their multiverse.

And then back in Boo saga he struggled to lift 40 tons without transforming lol.

Prior to that you had a Red ribbon commander use a super hand gun on Goku in RR snow tower. It's kinda to be expected.

Yeah, and that was specifically pointed out, Tao Pai Pai who's only a hired gun for Red Ribbon never points out that his grenade is anything besides just a grenade.

Goku wasn't on Friezas level when he was shot by the laser.

Only a slight difference in power anyways, he shouldn't be knocked down by a fucking laser.

As far as inconsistencies go, my two to-go examples are both from Cell. First of all, him somehow absorbing enough humans to become significantly stronger than Piccolo, even though normal human beings are basically Ants to the Z Fighters by this point, not even absorbing the whole Globe should've boosted him that much.

Genki Dama also has similar issues, though I've been told that the "genki" type of energy is different, but if so they never bothered to explain how exactly it works.

Then of course there is Cell vs Tien. Even though I actually like this one, it's one of the most clear-cut cases of SMvsFL ever. And no, Cell not being hurt and "only" pushed down does not make it any better, not even this should've happened, especially considering how huge the Power Gap between Tien and Cell was at this point, and how Nappa, with a much lower Power Gap, wasn't even pushed away.
And yes, before you come with the technicalities again, I know that it was not literally the same attack, but it's basically the same kind of difference between a Kamehameha and a Super-Kamehameha. Same technique, same way it works, just stronger.

The technicality that would be a point against what you said is that Tien had only one arm and was fucked up because of that, hell, later on, SS2 Gohan lost about half power with "just" a broken arm.

Even then, one armed or not, he was far closer to Nappa's power back then than he was to Semi-Perfect Cell later on, so Kikoho shouldn't have pushed down Cell anyways, since Nappa's armor was barely damaged by it lol.

Hell, considering that Chiaotzu didn't damage Nappa's armor, while Tien's Kikoho did, then his Kikoho is stronger than Chiaotzu's suicide attack, Tien's Kikoho should at least have pushed back Nappa, but nothing happened besides damaging his armor lol.

[Cody]

Goku as a kid has more than one situation where he takes a hit he didn't expect and was fine afterwards, he once even got hit while barely conscious and his reaction to it was "You know, that coulda hurt me!" so this defense or lack of it ain't consistent lol.

I've already addressed this;

As explained above(and in the show) when one lowers their guard, it is more literal in Dragonball. They are actively not using their ki to enhance their durability. And Saiyans base line durability is to be slightly annoyed by bullets.

The way DB itself treats heavy gravity is just lifting heavier weights, Dr. Briefs talking about it only mentions how much heavier Vegeta would become under heavy gravity, and not all of the other ways heavy gravity could kill him.

Like I mentioned, a lot of this took place during the Frieza and android arcs and has been dropped, specifically because AT was bad with numbers(see weighted clothing, or a lack thereof somehow making a difference in the fights with Tien(last budokai prior to Z), and the fight with raditz). Thankfully it was mostly dropped till that one scene in the Buu arc. So that's like, what? A few instances in the entire series? Hardly much to worry about as a lot of mediums do worse.

Irrelevant, characters have been at least moon bursters since early on, it's ridiculous for moon bursters to struggle with 10x gravity.

Not irrelevant as no, they haven't been. Only Roshi had a mastery of ki usage at that point and required so much build-up that it would be useless in a fight(which is why it wasn't until DBS that we see it again). At best King Piccolo and those more powerful than him might have been moon busters. But there is zero indication anyone other than a transformed Roshi could do it.

While I do think Toyotaro is a hack writer, considering that it is DB manga canon that Goku struggled to lift 40 tons without transforming, the situation with Magetta really isn't a far fetched inconsistency with DB lol.

It is for the reasons I already mentioned both for the anime(no weight was ever given for Magetta in the anime, while interestingly Vegeta was able to juggle him with his punches, yet not lift him) and manga(prior to that we had not only the universe shaking from the fight between Goku and Beerus, but Beerus and champa shattering planets by hitting the ground on said planets too hard, and Vegeta sending a building flying by accidentally tapping it too hard while thrown at him). Quite frankly that Magetta incident is the only low showing in the dbs manga atm.

Hell, worth keeping in mind Toriyama supervises the manga anyways, and there are confirmed situations where he made corrections and even changed stuff that Toyotaro did, like his idea of Belmond and Marcarita being lovers, something Toriyama removed, if Toriyama had a problem with Vegeta not managing to lift Magetta then it'd be changed or removed.

If that was the case it would have been reflected in the anime, it was not. Toyotaro has nothing to do with the anime, and AT has as much to do with one medium as he does the other. If anything he has more to do with the movies than anything.

I mean, DB doesn't use realism when it's using gravity changes, it's just treated as lifting heavy weights, at no point it's even implied stuff like internal damage would be a problem, so yeah, your points about gravity are whatever to me because DB doesn't treat gravity realistically, or semi realistically, it's only a way of making characters lift heavier weights.

Yet you use these instances despite the fact that it is these instances that are inconsistent, and do not reflect how the characters strength are usually presented to be.

And Goku is casually stronger than Hulked up Roshi back in saiyan saga even before he got to train with Kaio, he's a moon burster.

By the Saiyan saga maybe, I was refering to prior that.

The movie is written by Toriyama, the idea of the laser knocking down Goku is his', the screw up is his'.

Considering that wasn't the case in the other mediums, I find this logic suspect, as he does the script, not the animation.

The laser would still need to be really absurdly strong to injure someone on that level.

Already explained why that doesn't have to be the case.

I mean, my point is about internal consistency even when it's written by one guy, and Toriyama has his own weird inconsistencies.

When said inconsistencies can be counted on one hand, it seems more like for you are trying to use these minority of instances as more representative of a mediums level of consistency than it actually is.

If this was a more serious manga, then it could be a deal breaker, but DB is just a silly comic about punching people,

Only by your definition, which doesn't reflect well when the manga stopped being a gag manga a long time ago. Comics are mostly not serious and are just about silly super people doing super stuff, by your logic I guess the characters aren't that strong after all.

so inconsistencies like this aren't that bad (Stuff like the Cell plot hole are far bigger narrative problems anyways), overthinking it ain't worth it 'cause Toriyama himself may forget details like this, and the manga is just goofy fun.

This is more of a desperate attempt to throw feats you don't like out based on rather inconsistent logic.

You're just disagreeing for the sake of it, my entire point is that characters have to be stronger than energy beams for the damage they're causing to make sense, it's just questionable for them to be that strong yet also struggle under heavy gravities that should logically be nothing to them.

I'm pointing out the problems with your "points", especially when you have to use something waaaaaaay back in the series that is inconsistent with their presentation. We go by high end feats consistent with the characters presentation.

And then back in Boo saga he struggled to lift 40 tons without transforming lol.

And prior to that we have these characters shaking the terrain and making mountains crumble just from their attacks, and prior to that we had Goku tossing a giant piccolo prior to the Saiyan saga. You want to ignore all that, and focus on the few times where that wasn't the case.

Yeah, and that was specifically pointed out, Tao Pai Pai who's only a hired gun for Red Ribbon never points out that his grenade is anything besides just a grenade.

For by that point we had seen them use lasers and advanced cyborgs. You shouldn't need it to be explained all the time when common sense should be enough at that point.

Only a slight difference in power anyways, he shouldn't be knocked down by a fucking laser.

When their base durability without any kind enhancement whatsoever, involves being annoyed by bullets, why wouldn't it?

Genki Dama also has similar issues, though I've been told that the "genki" type of energy is different, but if so they never bothered to explain how exactly it works.

It was explained in the saiyan saga. It's like devilmans devilmite beam, it relies on the users pure heart, and greatly harms those of an impure heart.

[Cody]

As far as inconsistencies go, my two to-go examples are both from Cell. First of all, him somehow absorbing enough humans to become significantly stronger than Piccolo, even though normal human beings are basically Ants to the Z Fighters by this point, not even absorbing the whole Globe should've boosted him that much.

I think that had more to do with Piccolo having been in a drawn out fight with 17 by that point and was weakened because of it.

Then of course there is Cell vs Tien. Even though I actually like this one, it's one of the most clear-cut cases of SMvsFL ever. And no, Cell not being hurt and "only" pushed down does not make it any better, not even this should've happened, especially considering how huge the Power Gap between Tien and Cell was at this point, and how Nappa, with a much lower Power Gap, wasn't even pushed away.
And yes, before you come with the technicalities again, I know that it was not literally the same attack, but it's basically the same kind of difference between a Kamehameha and a Super-Kamehameha. Same technique, same way it works, just stronger.

It isn't smvfl. The tri beam alone is supposed to be a superior technique to the Kamehameha by Roshis own admission. Neo tri beam even more so. It's whole shtick is to Ram into it's target with disproportionate force. The fact the Kamehameha already allows the user to build-up more energy than they actually we inside themselves, and is still considered inferior to the normal tri-beam by Roshis own admission is rather telling.

[Jackalope89]

It isn't smvfl. The tri beam alone is supposed to be a superior technique to the Kamehameha by Roshis own admission. Neo tri beam even more so. It's whole shtick is to Ram into it's target with disproportionate force. The fact the Kamehameha already allows the user to build-up more energy than they actually we inside themselves, and is still considered inferior to the normal tri-beam by Roshis own admission is rather telling.

True. Though it is easier to over do it with the different variations of the tri-beam as compared to the Kamehameha or Galick Gun.

[Anarchist]

And again, I COULD buy that, were it not for the fact that Nappa was basically completely and utterly unaffected by it.

And if that Power-Up from Cell would've been that insignificant, no attention would've been drawn to it by the story.