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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Default July Book Club Discussion: Swamp Thing: Anatomy Lesson!

    Welcome to the first installment of the Collected Editions & Classic Comics Book Club! And after a week of nominations and voting the topic of the month is...
    Swamp Thing: Anatomy Lesson

    Written by Alan Moore
    Art by Steve Bissette
    DC, 1984

    Alan Moore may not have created Swamp Thing, but his run on Swamp Thring that ran through #20-64 is considered by many to be THE definitive run and as you'll likely see when we all begin reading and talking about #20-27 I think you'll see that superlitive is given with good reason.

    To start things off I ask this simple question: Did anyone here pick this up off the rack when it was originally published back in 1984?

    I ask because this book predates my birth by two years, and by the time I started really reading comics in earnest in the late 90's it was already considered a legendary run...but with the changes it made to Swamp Thing's origin I really wonder how it was recieved when it first came out. Changes to established character's origins these days are serious hot button issues that really bring out reader's passions, was it the same back in 1984?

    Were there really big Swamp Thing fans back then who felt betrayed by Moore?
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  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member MRP's Avatar
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    I didn't read it as it was coming out though I was reading comics at the time, and I did notice all the buzz it was getting in Eagle Awards and CBG fan awards. I think a trade collection of it came out (or was rereleased not sure of the publishing history) around the time that Watchmen was first released, which was when I first really got turned on to Moore's writing. Around the same time, DC released a Baxter reprint series called Roots of the Swamp Thing which reprinted the Wein Wrightson Swamp Thing material. I did pick up that mini as it came out and that first trade, but by that time Veitch had taken over the monthly I believe. My only previous exposure to the character of Swamp Thing prior to the Roots mini and that first collection of the Moore material was the early 80s Swamp Thing feature film.

    So I wasn't really sure what to make of it all, I just kind of dove in and absorbed it all as best as possible, and after reading that first trade collection, started grabbing the rest of the run as back issues. It all made enough sense to me at the time to enjoy what I read and have a desire to keep on reading, and from the results of fan awards it seemed incredibly well received by readers of the time and I don't recall a lot of negative reactions, but again I wasn't in the loop on the property until after the fact even though I was heavy into comics at the time (in '84 I was freshman/sophomore in high school and was more into Marvel but was just starting to get into some DC books on a regular basis. By '86 hen Roots and were current, I was heavy into DC and buying/reading way more DC than Marvel).

    -M
    Comic fans get the comics their buying habits deserve.

    "Opinion is the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding." -Plato

  3. #3
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I didnt buy it in the News stand as I was only 3 at the time.

    But I am excited to read it now. There are a couple reasons for this. The few things of Alan Moore I have read I have really enjoyed. And the other is the fact that I have only read one Swamp Thing comic in my whole life and that was the Future State comic and even then it was only the first issue.

    it is not that I have a dislike of Swamp Thing. I am just mostly into the cape and mask super hero comics. Swamp Thing never seemed to be something I would be interested in because it was not the normal that I read. Even now most of the stuff I read is the standard Super Hero stuff.

    I am looking forward to reading this and thanks to me being older and wiser (Maybe) I will go into this read with an open mind
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    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    This is my excuse to finally bust open my Absolute Editions! Think I'll start tonight...
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  5. #5
    Incredible Member etrumble's Avatar
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    Swamp thing was such a C-grade character(going the camp route with the 1982 movie) that I don't recall anyone caring that his origin was changed.

    This was a time when DC was trying to do anything to become relevant again. CoIE would come 1 year later(1985). Watchmen the following year(1986).

    Swamp Thing was the first most US readers(certainly me) had ever heard of Alan Moore.

    Big changes were already in the air at DC.
    Last edited by etrumble; 07-05-2022 at 07:23 PM.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I think I reread this whole run every 3-4 years and it’s always a pleasure. It’s like the guidebook for Sandman, Preacher, Animal Man, and even Morrison’s Batman. One thing about Moore, at least in my book, his language is such a pleasure to read. (Not for nothing, the original Wrightson Wein run is also must read.)

  7. #7
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    The good thing my friend has a very large collection and he has a lot of Swamp things. I am going to go to his house later today and rummage through and see what he has so I can read this
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  8. #8
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    I read some of the stories of the Swamp Thing by Alan Moore in the late 80´s.
    For the longest time i actually thought that Alan Moore stories of Swamp Thing were the first stories of the character.As back then there was no Internet,and my source of informations about comic books were of the letters section of the comic books when they had those.I did not knew about the continuity of the character.
    Back then i was buying just a few comic books that usually were comics of characteres that i was collecting.Ocasionaly i would buy different comics to read.One of those times was a anthology comic book with one or two stories of the Swamp Thing by Alan Moore.And the few stories of the Swamp Thing i read back then were impressive to me,because in comic books my previous readings were of funny comic books or super heroes comic books.

  9. #9
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    A big THANK YOU to thwhtGuardian for getting this off the ground.


    This came out when I was buying very few comics and most of them were Marvel. TBH, I don't think I've read any Swamp Thing, so this will be interesting.

    I vaguely remember the movie ... it had Louis Jourdan and Adrienne Barbeau, IIRC.
    Last edited by Reviresco; 07-06-2022 at 09:32 AM.
    Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member MRP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    A big THANK YOU to thwhtGuardian for getting this off the ground.


    This came out when I was buying very few comics and most of them were Marvel. TBH, I don't think I've read any Swamp Thing, so this will be interesting.

    I vaguely remember the movie ... it had Louis Jourdan and Adrienne Barbeau, IIRC.
    Yes, and Wes Craven was the driving force behind the movie-which was directly responsible for DC reviving Swamp Thing. When Craven got the rights and put the movie in production, DC hadn't used Swamp Thing in a few years and he hadn't had a series of his own since the initial series was cancelled in '76. Len Wein talks about reviving the series because of the film a bit in the forward to the first collected edition of the Moore issues (I reread the forward and intro by Ramsay Campbell, and the first issue last night).


    My initial reaction to #20-I was absolutely blown away by the page designs. Moore writes full script, so that was mostly his designs executed by Day, The framing of the pages, especially 2 page sequences on left and right and some individual pages framed top and bottom, and then the panel to panel sequencing, especially the 2 pages with the Newton's Cradle to absolutely control the flow of time for the reader were absolutely amazing. Moore's plotting and dialogue are great (his mastery of prose in top notch), but for me it is his absolute mastery of the craft of the form of comics and its use in telling a visual narrative that sets him apart from most of his peers.


    -M
    Comic fans get the comics their buying habits deserve.

    "Opinion is the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding." -Plato

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I love the podcast about movies: The Rewatchables, they use these categories when they discuss movies. They could kind of work for comics:



    Most Re-readable scene:

    Best quote

    What aged the best?

    What aged the worst?

    Dion waiters/heat check performance

    Overacting award:

    Casting what if’s

    Half assed internet research

    Unanswerable questions

    Could this be remade as a 10 episode Netflix series

    Apex mountain

    Who won the comic?

    That Guy award:


    Picking Nits:

    Recasting couch:

    Is this comic better with Jack Kirby, Todd McFarlane, or Will Eisner on it?

  12. #12
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRP View Post
    My initial reaction to #20-I was absolutely blown away by the page designs. Moore writes full script, so that was mostly his designs executed by Day, The framing of the pages, especially 2 page sequences on left and right and some individual pages framed top and bottom, and then the panel to panel sequencing, especially the 2 pages with the Newton's Cradle to absolutely control the flow of time for the reader were absolutely amazing. Moore's plotting and dialogue are great (his mastery of prose in top notch), but for me it is his absolute mastery of the craft of the form of comics and its use in telling a visual narrative that sets him apart from most of his peers.


    -M
    All these years later your initial reaction is still the same as mine. This was groundbreaking artwork in 1984, and it still holds up. Swamp Thing artists have continued to emulate it all the way up to the current run with Mike Perkins amazing pencils!

    The writing speaks for itself. As you say, Moore can spout prose all day long and it never becomes a drag to read.

    As for content, #20 is still a great read if you missed the first 19 issues. Moore wraps up the fairly standard superhero plot that proceeded him most eloquently.
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  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member MRP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    All these years later your initial reaction is still the same as mine. This was groundbreaking artwork in 1984, and it still holds up. Swamp Thing artists have continued to emulate it all the way up to the current run with Mike Perkins amazing pencils!

    The writing speaks for itself. As you say, Moore can spout prose all day long and it never becomes a drag to read.

    As for content, #20 is still a great read if you missed the first 19 issues. Moore wraps up the fairly standard superhero plot that proceeded him most eloquently.
    I've read the whole Moore run before, but not since the 90s, so it's been 25-30 years since I read them. The stories have stayed with me, but I suspect it will be the visual storytelling that will stand out as I look at/read these stories with fresh eyes. When I first read them, I was more interested in what is the story they were telling, now years later, I am much more interested in how they are telling the story. That aspect of my approach to reading comic started shortly after I last read this run when I first read McCloud's Understanding Comics and then the Eisner volumes about graphic storytelling that inspired it and has continued to be an interest of mine through the second half of my life as a comic fan. It's something I focus on a bit with every new (to me) comic I discover, and something that is in the forefront when I reread comics I first read in the first half of my life as a comic fan ('73-circa '98) before I first stumbled on McCloud. I still love the stories being told, but I have a greater appreciation for stories that are well told instead on ones that have to land despite how they are told.

    -M
    Comic fans get the comics their buying habits deserve.

    "Opinion is the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding." -Plato

  14. #14
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    i started to read Swamp thing at issue number 1. At least for this series. Having never read a Swamp Thing comic before I want to see the difference between what came before and Moores run.
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  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    Stephen Bisette, John Totleben, Rick Veitch, Tajana Wood, and Alan Moore, that might be the best lineup on a book, maybe ever? The crazy thing is, they were also doing genre changing storytelling in Miracle Man at around the same time. This is one book where I learned to notice the lettering. Is there a better comic book version of the Odyssey than this book? I feel like the Odyssey is a touchstone for so many comic book runs in the postmodern/ modern era, Morrison’s Batman is the most recent one that comes to my mind.

    My favorite quote:

    “Throughout his miserable existence, the only thing that could have kept him sane was the hope he might one day regain his humanity…The knowledge that under all the slime he was still Alec Holland… But if he’s read my note he’ll know that isn’t true. He isn’t Alec Holland. He will never be Alec Holland. He never was Alec Holland. He’s just a ghost. A ghost dressed in weeds.”

    On page 15, the Floronic Man is just horrific, just as good as Nicholson in the Shining. This book lead me to discover EC Comics and in some ways, they have influenced storytelling in film and television. They helped make the audience ready for things like The Shape of Water or Everything, Everywhere, and All at Once.

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