Is It Possible Peter Doesn't Love MJ As Deeply As He Loved Gwen?

[TinkerSpider]

Love is a contest, it is by default a selfish emotion, while it can be used to not be selfish, it's not all cute and nice.

This is getting into areas that might be beyond a comic book board, so I'm just going to say when "love" is selfish, it's not love. It's control or jealousy or lack of confidence masquerading as "love."

Even so, it's not a contest. There are no prizes. There is no ranking. There is no title. One can love many people in many different ways, even love the same person but in different ways over time, but that doesn't mean one love is "purer" or "better" or has inherently more value. Each relationship is different because they involve different people and at different stages of their lives. We learn different things from each relationship in different ways.

There are more examples of such things. The point is that, particularly with titles outside of the franchise, such statements can't be taken as absolutes. So in this case, House of M and Son of M (by the way, Quicksilver isn't even Magneto's son anymore, lol), can't be taken as "evidence" of anything.

If someone is trying to use House of M as "proof" that Peter loved Gwen more than MJ, that isn't proof of anything.

Agreed.

Also this thread made me read Son of M . Peter still has all the memories in his head of a life that felt like it was real (and wasn’t this a multiverse reality that got merged with 616 thanks to Wanda? Didn’t Slott kill off House of M Peter in Spider-Worse? Or am I misremembering?) but isn’t his. What he seems to actually be upset about is he can’t talk to MJ because he wasn’t married to her in that reality yet he was happy, because he feels she would take it as a betrayal (I don’t think MJ would, she would probably be far more understanding than this writer makes Peter thinks because she knows better than Peter that adult relationships can be messy, but I’m digressing). It’s not that he’s upset he’s not with Gwen, he’s upset because this is putting a wedge between him and MJ.

Later, when Peter mets up with Quicksilver, he doesn’t mention Gwen by name. Instead, he’s angry because he had a son in that reality who he loved deeply and the son was taken from him so now he’s mourning a ghost no one else knew (and probably again feels like he can’t share his grief with MJ although again, she would probably be understanding). His grief is centered on Richie, not Gwen.

[Lunala]

.

We have different assumptions about the comic characters and human nature so I believe further conversation may be ineffective.

I defend it because arguments over "who Peter loved more" are pointless in a medium where the characters feelings change depending on the author. The answer is he loved both ladies in different ways and both women are important. The fuss, when Mary Jane is the only one alive and able to progress beyond her original characterization by sexist men, is unproductive. Peter is not a necrophiliac or Miles Warren lol.

This is getting into areas that might be beyond a comic book board, so I'm just going to say when "love" is selfish, it's not love. It's control or jealousy or lack of confidence masquerading as "love."

Even so, it's not a contest. There are no prizes. There is no ranking. There is no title. One can love many people in many different ways, even love the same person but in different ways over time, but that doesn't mean one love is "purer" or "better" or has inherently more value. Each relationship is different because they involve different people and at different stages of their lives. We learn different things from each relationship in different ways.

Edited to say I agree with this.

[Lukmendes]

This is getting into areas that might be beyond a comic book board, so I'm just going to say when "love" is selfish, it's not love. It's control or jealousy or lack of confidence masquerading as "love."

Even so, it's not a contest. There are no prizes. There is no ranking. There is no title. One can love many people in many different ways, even love the same person but in different ways over time, but that doesn't mean one love is "purer" or "better" or has inherently more value. Each relationship is different because they involve different people and at different stages of their lives. We learn different things from each relationship in different ways.

Love isn't a cute lil' emotion that has only good things attached to it and stops being love the moment bad things are done, love can cause people to do horrible things for the sake of it the same way that it can cause people to do selfless things for the sake of it, it's not so black and white that love in only a good thing, and that goes for a lot of other emotions too, forgiveness for example isn't necessarily a good thing, neither is selfishness necessarily a bad thing, the way those emotions are used by a person is mostly more important than the emotion itself.

And it can be a contest too, how many times have people undermined and/or screwed over someone else for the sake of having a chance to be with that person? Sounds like a contest, and those don't stop happening.

We have different assumptions about the comic characters and human nature so I believe further conversation may be ineffective.

I defend it because arguments over "who Peter loved more" are pointless in a medium where the characters feelings change depending on the author. The answer is he loved both ladies in different ways and both women are important. The fuss, when Mary Jane is the only one alive and able to progress beyond her original characterization by sexist men, is unproductive. Peter is not a necrophiliac or Miles Warren lol.

I mean my whole point is that him getting into a poly relationship is out of character, and I'm against it because he consistently only showed interest in monogamous relationships, I'm someone more interested in character consistency than changing their personalities for the sake of "Wouldn't it be interesting if...", so yeah, I don't see him or his love interests wanting to get in a poly relationship because that's not how they're characterized.

[TinkerSpider]

And it can be a contest too, how many times have people undermined and/or screwed over someone else for the sake of having a chance to be with that person? Sounds like a contest, and those don't stop happening.

That doesn’t sound like love, it sounds like possessiveness.

I’m going to paraphrase Lunala and say we have different assumptions human nature so I believe further conversation on this topic may be ineffective.

[Mister Mets]

He can never have the innocent, young love again with Gwen. He's capable of deep and intense love, but he's been through the wringer.

[phonogram12]

His first love was Betty, not Gwen.

If we're talking about first person he dated, I agree. As far as one of those girls who left an indelible impression and changed his life forever, I'd say his first love is Gwen.

[Huntsman Spider]

He can never have the innocent, young love again with Gwen. He's capable of deep and intense love, but he's been through the wringer.

That's a good way of putting it.