Judgement Day #1 Preview

[jwatson]

I mean, Reed had a data page in that mini about how Krakoa should share their gateway technology with the world, even though defense is one of the primary reasons the gates are set up to only work for mutants, given what's happened to every prior mutant refuge. And the Celestial technology I was referring to wasn't just resurrection technology, but their god-like technology that Reed and Tony and others are perfectly aware they have. So I'm largely talking about the fact that I've never seen readers or characters commit to any kind of expectation that Eternals, Inhumans, Atlanteans, etc all share their technology with everyone, even the heroes among those various groups, but they hold that expectation for mutants, even though so far pretty much all mutant technology in question is literally born of mutants prioritizing their self-protection or overcoming past genocidal attempts against them.

this is an amazing point that is just hitting me. Tony, Reed, even the humans all of a sudden now want mutant technology. But then as i think your alluding to that very mutant technology is their powers, the one thing they were murdered and killed over because they feared it, now Tony and them think they should just wily nily give it out because it's technology now. But the stuff they build with their hands, it doesn't matter what it is no expects reed to share it or tony or to go out of there way to create something to help others. in fact when the cloud was happening and people were mentioning it was " do you really want others always solving mutant problems."

[JB]

The difficulty with sympathizing with the humans' take is that, as Scott smartly mentions, mutants are still being rounded up and killed. I would assume the specifically murderous, evil humans are a big part of the protesting as well. It sucks because the X-Men in the Treehouse have come together for the purpose of helping everyone and now they have protestors outside their front door which would only hinder their efforts to be heroes.

[jwatson]

so in a sense when your asking these mutants to give over mutant technology your asking them to give over something that is actually extremely intimate to them as well. But it's fine for others to not turn over an inanimate object but the five should just agree to bring people back when they are thinking living" technologies "with individual feelings. It's harder to believe you can string five mutants together with the specific powers of the five to bring back a human than reed or tony creating something.

[BobbysWorld]

this is an amazing point that is just hitting me. Tony, Reed, even the humans all of a sudden now want mutant technology. But then as i think your alluding to that very mutant technology is their powers, the one thing they were murdered and killed over because they feared it, now Tony and them think they should just wily nily give it out because it's technology now. But the stuff they build with their hands, it doesn't matter what it is no expects reed to share it or tony or to go out of there way to create something to help others. in fact when the cloud was happening and people were mentioning it was " do you really want others always solving mutant problems."

Bingo.

Humanity in the Marvel universe has never been oblivious to the potential applications of mutant powers as exploitable resources - there have been countless stories about various ways human governments and organizations have dehumanized mutants specifically TO just see them as exploitable resources rather than persons harmed by their actions or said exploitation.

And then at the exact same time, you've had people and groups constantly trying to wipe out mutants based on the actions of a few, or fears of the hypothetical dangers mutants as a whole could pose, or using all that to justify hate crimes and violence against mutants....

*Shrugs* My take is always gonna be that mutants are fucking tired of being dehumanized and reduced to being seen as nothing BUT their powers, and exploited or used by humans for those powers at the exact same time other humans (or even the same ones) point to those powers as justification for violence against mutants.

Like I'm just saying, I think any mutant is well within their rights to say "Wait, so humans hate me and talk about killing me because of the fact I even have these powers, but they also expect me to use those powers that they hate me for, FOR them, and if I DON'T agree to do that, most of them will use that as further justification for hating me and wanting to kill me?"

I mean......

[jwatson]

Bingo.

Humanity in the Marvel universe has never been oblivious to the potential applications of mutant powers as exploitable resources - there have been countless stories about various ways human governments and organizations have dehumanized mutants specifically TO just see them as exploitable resources rather than persons harmed by their actions or said exploitation.

And then at the exact same time, you've had people and groups constantly trying to wipe out mutants based on the actions of a few, or fears of the hypothetical dangers mutants as a whole could pose, or using all that to justify hate crimes and violence against mutants....

*Shrugs* My take is always gonna be that mutants are fucking tired of being dehumanized and reduced to being seen as nothing BUT their powers, and exploited or used by people for those powers at the exact same time other people (or even the same people) use those powers as justification for violence against mutants.

Like I'm just saying, I think any mutant is well within their rights to say "Wait, so you hate and talk about killing me because of the fact I even have these powers, but you also expect me to use those powers that you hate me for, FOR you, and if I DON'T agree to do that, you'll use that as further justification for hating me and wanting to kill me?"

I mean......

Damn... as usual you just took me to the next level in thinking about it. Like that so real emotion just really alluded me until i read it again after my val post it just felt i wasn't reading it and i'm glad i went back and did because it is. The psychological damage it could do to mutants who just don't want to. And that's okay, is the world going to make the five feel bad when they go "no, cause we're scared of you now" maybe, but shouldn't they at least have that right and to not be badgered because of it. This story starts with them not even seen as human. Darnit bobby...

[CGAR]

Like I'm just saying....why are characters like Reed and Tony all over mutants about how they should have to share their technology, when all along, they've been friends and allies with many of these Eternals....where are the demands that Eternals share THEIR god-like technology with all of humanity, for the good of everyone?

What's up with the total lack of that angle, and this kinda just....acceptance that Eternals should of course get to be proprietary about their technology,-but mutants, whose technology is based on the literal powers of their individual citizens, like, owe everyone the fruits of THEIR technology, because.....everyone said so?

For that matter, Reed, Tony, Pym and many others DO share a lot of their patents, true! But at the same time, its not like Stark Tower and the Baxter Building haven't all been shown to be filled to the brim with inventions they haven't shared with the world. How many things have they invented and kept for themselves on the basis that it was made just for their own purposes, or they don't trust most of humanity to use it wisely, or like, it literally just doesn't even occur to them TO offer it to other people?

Where's all this 'heroes owe it to the world to share the technology that can benefit everyone, with no ulterior motive or without asking for anything in return' energy.....

When it comes to literally anyone BUT mutants?

Does that not strike anyone else as a huge, glaring double standard?

Also Wakanda. They have had crazy good technology for how long now?

This is such an awesome point.

[Exodus]

Shoot, I got human problems, that's the mutant in me,

Haha, Flatscans jelly we got immortality!

'Used to be Dark Phoenix! Not to belittle

But back then we were cosmic! now you w'Echo?

We once were tight yesterday, but don't get in my way,

'Cause I'm fuckin' Cyclops, cuz I'm Jean Grey~

hihi. Awesome! who are you and why are we not dating? :-p

[G-Man27]

It's unfortunately a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario for Krakoa. Either explain more about the protocols and risk putting the Five in danger, or stay silent and have all the Jamesons in the world be like "What are they hiding, why won't they tell us!" There's no right or wrong answer

[jwatson]

It's unfortunately a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario for Krakoa. Either explain more about the protocols and risk putting the Five in danger, or stay silent and have all the Jamesons in the world be like "What are they hiding, why won't they tell us!" There's no right or wrong answer

In this case there was. It was none of the worlds business. No one asks what Doom is doing in Latveria or what Tchalla is doing in Wakanda or what Namor is doing under the sea. So there is principle here.

What got me messed up is even i was starting to see the characters in that setting as technology so i kind of get how it can happen but it's like yo, if your in that world and these are people and this is what they have been through and because of this, you kind of got to check your wants. i can't just take someones money, or gun, or property. Their gifts are a part of them.

[Jv565]

In this case there was. It was none of the worlds business. No one asks what Doom is doing in Latveria or what Tchalla is doing in Wakanda or what Namor is doing under the sea. So there is principle here.

What got me messed up is even i was starting to see the characters in that setting as technology so i kind of get how it can happen but it's like yo, if your in that world and these are people and this is what they have been through and because of this, you kind of got to check your wants. i can't just take someones money, or gun, or property. Their gifts are a part of them.

That's such a good point. You're not entitled to anyone's time, work, or talents; regardless of how much you might want/need them.

Again, and this is not specifically to your point, jwatson, but I'll just reiterate that neither Tony or Reed have come out and asked the mutants to share their 'gifts' or
'technology' with the world. I can't think of any Avenger that's done that. That's coming from general humanity and some world leaders.

[Frontier]

I mean, Rogue's always been the favorite kid. Most of Kurt and Raven's interactions can be summed up as 'threw him in a river as a baby' and 'talks shit about him as a hobby.'

Thanks for reminding me how horrible Mystique is!

The difficulty with sympathizing with the humans' take is that, as Scott smartly mentions, mutants are still being rounded up and killed. I would assume the specifically murderous, evil humans are a big part of the protesting as well. It sucks because the X-Men in the Treehouse have come together for the purpose of helping everyone and now they have protestors outside their front door which would only hinder their efforts to be heroes.

I think anyone could sympathize with someone who has lost a loved one and sees a race that has "conquered death" as a means of bringing back their loved ones (which transcends human or Mutant) even if the truth is that honestly the Mutants haven't really conquered death because they're still dying and aren't even close to resurrecting all their dead even after all this time.

But the whole idea of legit, applicable, resurrections is a huge genie that just got let out of the bottle and will be one that's difficult to really manage publicly unless that's the whole point of AXE in some regards.

Bingo.

Humanity in the Marvel universe has never been oblivious to the potential applications of mutant powers as exploitable resources - there have been countless stories about various ways human governments and organizations have dehumanized mutants specifically TO just see them as exploitable resources rather than persons harmed by their actions or said exploitation.

And then at the exact same time, you've had people and groups constantly trying to wipe out mutants based on the actions of a few, or fears of the hypothetical dangers mutants as a whole could pose, or using all that to justify hate crimes and violence against mutants....

*Shrugs* My take is always gonna be that mutants are fucking tired of being dehumanized and reduced to being seen as nothing BUT their powers, and exploited or used by humans for those powers at the exact same time other humans (or even the same ones) point to those powers as justification for violence against mutants.

Like I'm just saying, I think any mutant is well within their rights to say "Wait, so humans hate me and talk about killing me because of the fact I even have these powers, but they also expect me to use those powers that they hate me for, FOR them, and if I DON'T agree to do that, most of them will use that as further justification for hating me and wanting to kill me?"

I mean......

Not even just Mutants to be honest.

[Huntsman Spider]

this is an amazing point that is just hitting me. Tony, Reed, even the humans all of a sudden now want mutant technology. But then as i think your alluding to that very mutant technology is their powers, the one thing they were murdered and killed over because they feared it, now Tony and them think they should just wily nily give it out because it's technology now. But the stuff they build with their hands, it doesn't matter what it is no expects reed to share it or tony or to go out of there way to create something to help others. in fact when the cloud was happening and people were mentioning it was " do you really want others always solving mutant problems."

Bingo.

Humanity in the Marvel universe has never been oblivious to the potential applications of mutant powers as exploitable resources - there have been countless stories about various ways human governments and organizations have dehumanized mutants specifically TO just see them as exploitable resources rather than persons harmed by their actions or said exploitation.

And then at the exact same time, you've had people and groups constantly trying to wipe out mutants based on the actions of a few, or fears of the hypothetical dangers mutants as a whole could pose, or using all that to justify hate crimes and violence against mutants....

*Shrugs* My take is always gonna be that mutants are fucking tired of being dehumanized and reduced to being seen as nothing BUT their powers, and exploited or used by humans for those powers at the exact same time other humans (or even the same ones) point to those powers as justification for violence against mutants.

Like I'm just saying, I think any mutant is well within their rights to say "Wait, so humans hate me and talk about killing me because of the fact I even have these powers, but they also expect me to use those powers that they hate me for, FOR them, and if I DON'T agree to do that, most of them will use that as further justification for hating me and wanting to kill me?"

I mean......

Pretty much cosigning you both, although I think it parallels how majority cultures in the real world tend to almost parasitically exploit the fruits of the creativity and resourcefulness of more marginalized cultures for their own benefit without showing much if anything in the way of regard or respect for those marginalized cultures. Furthermore, those majority cultures, whether explicitly or implicitly, demand that the products of those marginalized cultures' labor be unconditionally shared with or given to them as the price for being accepted by the very society where they predominate. Alas, "acceptance" by those majority cultures tends to be tentative at best and all too often completely goes out the window as soon as the marginalized start demanding more genuine respect from those in the majority culture(s) enjoying what their labors have produced.

Hell, now that I think about it, the only condition the mutants of Krakoa would need to impose on humanity in exchange for sharing the bounty produced by their abilities is, "Stop killing us, stop trying to control us or make us go away." Except according to the Hellfire Gala one-shot yesterday, ORCHIS is coming up with some B.S. legal theory that says lethal violence inflicted upon mutants doesn't count as a crime against actual people because they can just be brought back, equating them to property that can be rebuilt or restored or repaired if it's damaged or destroyed in any way. In that regard, much like in the real world, no matter how "useful" or "valuable" marginalized cultures may be to a majority culture, that majority will still all too often ignore and devalue the personhood and humanity of the actual people who are part of and make up those marginalized cultures. To put it in shorter words: "They want what we make, but they don't want us."

[BobbysWorld]

That's such a good point. You're not entitled to anyone's time, work, or talents; regardless of how much you might want/need them.

Again, and this is not specifically to your point, jwatson, but I'll just reiterate that neither Tony or Reed have come out and asked the mutants to share their 'gifts' or
'technology' with the world. I can't think of any Avenger that's done that. That's coming from general humanity and some world leaders.

I do think that Reed's take on the gates definitely carried implications that he was judging mutants for 'withholding' their gate technology, but I'll concede he and Tony haven't outright asked or demanded anything, so I'll be more careful how I word that in the future.

[jwatson]

Pretty much cosigning you both, although I think it parallels how majority cultures in the real world tend to almost parasitically exploit the fruits of the creativity and resourcefulness of more marginalized cultures for their own benefit without showing much if anything in the way of regard or respect for those marginalized cultures. Furthermore, those majority cultures, whether explicitly or implicitly, demand that the products of those marginalized cultures' labor be unconditionally shared with or given to them as the price for being accepted by the very society where they predominate. Alas, "acceptance" by those majority cultures tends to be tentative at best and all too often completely goes out the window as soon as the marginalized start demanding more genuine respect from those in the majority culture(s) enjoying what their labors have produced.

Hell, now that I think about it, the only condition the mutants of Krakoa would need to impose on humanity in exchange for sharing the bounty produced by their abilities is, "Stop killing us, stop trying to control us or make us go away." Except according to the Hellfire Gala one-shot yesterday, ORCHIS is coming up with some B.S. legal theory that says lethal violence inflicted upon mutants doesn't count as a crime against actual people because they can just be brought back, equating them to property that can be rebuilt or restored or repaired if it's damaged or destroyed in any way. In that regard, much like in the real world, no matter how "useful" or "valuable" marginalized cultures may be to a majority culture, that majority will still all too often ignore and devalue the personhood and humanity of the actual people who are part of and make up those marginalized cultures. To put it in shorter words: "They want what we make, but they don't want us."

Big Facts. Damn between you and bobby ya'll really going have me wanting to get this just for a deep thought dive in what it's really saying or may be saying.

[Reigna]

Hey from what I've seen Echo hasn't gone insane with power so she's already a leg up over like most of the people to wield the Phoenix in the past

She seems to be the most sane host soo far excluding rachel ofcourse. She has handled the power pretty well given that advesary was trying to kill her a while ago.