Is Frank Castle/The Punisher a One-Note Character?

[Ptrvc]

God, no...

I'd take Frankencastle over that.

I agree about Marvel not knowing what to do with a lot of characters. It seems the gimmicks they try go way too far sometimes, edging on the realm of stupidity. Frankencastle is definitely proof of that, I'd agree.

I think Frank Castle: Ghost Rider would be a fun What If...? but it shouldn't happen in canon.

Every Villain on Earth would be dead by issue 5....

[Bionder]

The Punisher is far from being one note character. Take for example Punisher: Nightmare, "Do Not Fall in New York City" by Ennis and Punisher: The Trial.

For those who think the Punisher needs "perks" they are wrong. He is what he is for being human and for stopping crimes that the superhero community doesn't care about.
He doesn't need to be in intergalactic events, his place is on the streets, jungle, desert whatever you like, if there is evil he should be there to punish anywhere in the globe.
Although to make things interesting he could intercept "tech" from HYDRA, SHIELD or Stark industries to give him some edge to take down major threats and shake the superhero community, a little bit.

Imagine if the Omega Drive were in his hands?

[Darth Phoenix]

God, no...

I'd take Frankencastle over that.

I agree about Marvel not knowing what to do with a lot of characters. It seems the gimmicks they try go way too far sometimes, edging on the realm of stupidity. Frankencastle is definitely proof of that, I'd agree.

Thunderbolts could have bee a cool Xforce like title have been great for Frank but it had to fall apart.

[Kuwagaton]

Franken Castle was awesome, but I thought the first 11 or so issues of that volume were even better.

[Bionder]

I liked the first 9 issues of Remender's run and The List when Frank fought Daken after that it was really bad.
Only In The Blood miniseries saved it.

[chamber-music]

The Punisher isn't a one note character. Frank Castle actually has a lot of depth.

A number of writers have explored the psyche of who Frank castle is and it is that makes him do the things he does.

Frank suffers PTSD and has since his early days. Frank often has had flashbacks to Vietnam.

In the Jason Aaron Punisher Max run Frank's families death wasn't the reason he became the Punisher. Frank was always the Punisher. He felt most at home on the battlefield. Frank's families death released him from the shackles of civilian life to allow him to become what he always was which was a warrior killing machine.

To the world at large, Frank Castle went to war after his family was murdered. The truth is far different. In the jungles of Cambodia, against hordes of screaming Viet Cong, a man falls in love with war, and puts a price on his very humanity. The Punisher is truly BORN.

Frank is similar to the Watchmen character Rorschach in that he believes in Moral absolutism. Frank wanted to be a catholic priest but he couldn't reconcile his moral absolutism with granting forgiveness for those who sinned.

[Kieran_Frost]

I will say, I just don't think the character is for me. But I did enjoy the Punisher game back in the day.

That's the point. He's a serial killer, not a hero.

For me personally, it comes off as self-righteous. I love Daken (a serial killer) because he owns his sh*t; and never pretends he's morally superior to anyone.

How is he self-righteous or moody?

Come on, really? He's hardly a shotgun barrel of laughs to be around.

That's the thing, though. He's a monster who kills other monsters, and that makes him sympathetic, as does his backstory.

I'm not sure I follow that logic. It doesn't invoke sympathy with me (but then again I don't find King Lear or Willy Loaman sympathetic).

The satisfaction comes when he's unleashed on people so bad they deserve every inch of pain he gives them.

This was one of my problems with the Slavers, I felt that I (the reader) was meant to be cheering... and I definitely didn't want to. Kill them, fine. But the brutal killings or torture... it's just too much. We have to be better than them, or we are no better (which is where the "he's selfrighteous" comes from). Much like with Wolverine, it's very bad when a "hero" has a higher kill count than most villains.

[Of Atlantis]

I think Frank Castle: Ghost Rider would be a fun What If...? but it shouldn't happen in canon.

Every Villain on Earth would be dead by issue 5....

Pretty much. Seeing how Johnny is the only thing holding the Spirit of Vengeance back from totally going ham, someone like Frank Castle being in control would completely embrace that untamed thirst for vengeance.

[Kuwagaton]

For me personally, it comes off as self-righteous. I love Daken (a serial killer) because he owns his sh*t; and never pretends he's morally superior to anyone.

The Punisher never claims moral superiority, but he does express frustration to other heroes about their recurring antagonists. Which, to be fair, is quite logical.

I'm not sure I follow that logic. It doesn't invoke sympathy with me (but then again I don't find King Lear or Willy Loaman sympathetic).

There are a lot of people who advocate the death of child molesters, for one thing. Maybe you don't, but those sort of issues are very big with people. Comics escape reality as much as they pull us into their own realities, and the Punisher will always have relevance because he's willing to take us there.

Come on, really? He's hardly a shotgun barrel of laughs to be around.

With all of the "funny" characters out there, I'm glad there isn't another. Not that some Punisher comics aren't funny (Ennis' War Zone and Fraction's run in general are my top picks). Most writers are careful to show that he's not supposed to be any sort of role model, what he does is not supposed to be the right thing, and he's not supposed to be someone who brings people to his cause. That said, he has had a share of sidekicks and supporting cast members. He mentored Rachel and it was awesome. And now in his book, while he has something of a steady cast, there's a certain tragedy to him being an avatar of death that still keeps him a loner, no many how many coffee shops he dines in or ninja he dates.

I liked the first 9 issues of Remender's run and The List when Frank fought Daken after that it was really bad.
Only In The Blood miniseries saved it.

Fact: Tony Moore has never drawn a bad comic. Maybe Dan Brereton or Roland Boschi have, but how could you tell?

[Bionder]

To me Franken-castle was bad, the artwork was good. If I have a book with a bad story and good art to me it's practically the same, imo.

[Vic Vega]

The Punisher started out as a mob busting character, but when he got his solo book, he branched out
into different types of crime, including neo-Nazis, Billonare Boy's Club-esq thrill killers and serial killers.

You could believably put the Punisher up against any type of real world criminal there is who preys on the innocent
and uses lethal force to do it.

So the nature of the book can change periodically depending on the type of crime he is up against.

The mob busting Punisher knew where his enemies were because they didn't hide. When Frank is fighting less
overt criminals, he might need a Microchip-type hacker or a sympathetic Cop assisting him as he isn't really a detective.

[Lady Warp Spasm]

He's very one-note, because he's essentially a caricature of the macho hero who expresses nothing but stoicism and rage. He's an excellent example of why female characters like the rebooted Laura Croft are often more interesting that male characters: because female characters are allowed to show weakness and humanity.

Huh? As a woman, I will say I disagree with your statement about humanity being exclusive to female characters.

Great writers allow for humanity and 'weakness' no matter what gender etc. the character is.

Frank had plenty of humanity in Greg Rucka's run beyond what you've mentioned as his traits. I do not think it will be the last time this character will.

[Kieran_Frost]

The Punisher never claims moral superiority, but he does express frustration to other heroes about their recurring antagonists. Which, to be fair, is quite logical.

When he acts as judge, jury and execution he IS claiming moral superiority. What gives him the right? His judgement and his alone decides the fate and lives of others? That's Steve Rogers 101, right there

There are a lot of people who advocate the death of child molesters, for one thing. Maybe you don't, but those sort of issues are very big with people. Comics escape reality as much as they pull us into their own realities, and the Punisher will always have relevance because he's willing to take us there.

I do not advocate the death penalty for anyone, no.

With all of the "funny" characters out there, I'm glad there isn't another.

I agree, but you're the one who was surprised to see Punisher labelled as "moody" (which surprises me, frankly).

Fact: Tony Moore has never drawn a bad comic.

Preach it! His Venom series was amazing!

[Of Atlantis]

When he acts as judge, jury and execution he IS claiming moral superiority. What gives him the right?

Not sure I agree with that. I don't think he considers what he does morally "right" necessarily.

His judgement and his alone decides the fate and lives of others? That's Steve Rogers 101, right there

Oh please, not this lol

[Emma's Midriff]

When he acts as judge, jury and execution he IS claiming moral superiority. What gives him the right? His judgement and his alone decides the fate and lives of others? That's Steve Rogers 101, right there


I do not advocate the death penalty for anyone, no.


I agree, but you're the one who was surprised to see Punisher labelled as "moody" (which surprises me, frankly).


Preach it! His Venom series was amazing!

I think the fact that you're so opposed to Frank's viewpoint and actions is kind of the point of the character. You're not supposed to be totally on board with what he does. Frank is really fucked up, that's where his complexity is. I would never call him 'moody' because that would seem to imply that he's not insane, and he is insane.