Reasons other then sexism. why Wonderwoman feels like a smaller part of the big3

[Alpha]

While this WW design is terrible, this illustrates what Diana should look like compared to Clark, since she actively trains her body (and probably uses superhuman training equipment), while he does not. Maybe this much of a height difference is a slightly too much

[BiteTheBullet]

What superheroes are drawn like basketball players? Look at the covers for the main comics events right now. This is the standard representation of superheroes even today. Guys are huge. Women are toned but quite skinny. No mass

Shazam and Yara Flor both have similar supernatural super strength but are portrayed with drastically different body types, opposite size. Meanwhile Hal Jordan looks huge even though he isn't supposd to be particularly strong, while Jessica Cruz is still skinny and toned

Thor and Carol Danvers both have similar cosmic super strength but are portrayed with drastically different body types, opposite size. Meanwhile Cyclops looks huge even though he isn't supposed to be particularly strong, while Storm is still skinny and toned

Since when would Shazam and Yara have similar strength? Does she have feats of strength that puts her on par with the original Superman or even Jon Kent which would be the barometer to measure a statement like that? If she does, then they appear to be watering down Diana since I had no idea Yara was that strong when they don't show Diana the same. Lip service and all.

Again, you are going to have to start boycotting some of the comics you read since you seem so hellbent on how they are drawn. Unless you are She-Hulk, you probably are not going to see the muscles on female heroes that you want. Also, it seems that they are drawing Jon Kent much slimmer than his dad, although the theory could be that he still has to grow into his physique. Also, what would be the reason that a hero like Clark Kent is super buff as if he was a competing bodybuilder? Did we ever see issues of him growing up to this ultimate, non steroid physique working out? Maybe he went to smaller planets to push them to get the muscles a good work out. Every other day could be leg days while kicking rocks from Saturns rings. How do you explain Powergirls or Supergirls physique in relation to Superman? They both have supermodel type of physiques, very similar to Diana, but apparently don't need the big muscles that Supes has and they still have this immeasurable strength.

Seems to me quite the paradox, unless you just call it a day with the notion of what artists consider their standard of beauty which is muscle bound men and supermodel women. Even the scenes in Themyscria from the movies, Gal (while getting toned for the part) is probably still the thinnest of the amazons, even though she is the most powerful.

[Alpha]

Since when would Shazam and Yara have similar strength? Does she have feats of strength that puts her on par with the original Superman or even Jon Kent which would be the barometer to measure a statement like that? If she does, then they appear to be watering down Diana since I had no idea Yara was that strong when they don't show Diana the same. Lip service and all.

Fine if you don't think Shazam and Yara can be in the same category them my point about sexist body designs can also be exemplified by the dudes in the Shazam Family compared to the women:

Again, you are going to have to start boycotting some of the comics you read since you seem so hellbent on how they are drawn.

Boycotting good Wonder Woman stories doesn't help me get what is right. It just comvinces DC that Wonder Woman doesn't deserve investment.

How do you explain Powergirls or Supergirls physique in relation to Superman? They both have supermodel type of physiques, very similar to Diana, but apparently don't need the big muscles that Supes has and they still have this immeasurable strength.

I think you're confused. What I've been criticizing all this time is that artists draw characters with superhuman strength in sexist ways. If they are men they have huge arms, broad shoulders, etc. If they are women they have abs and their arms a bit more defined. And this is because society says buff women aren't attractive. And I think this is sickening and Diana should set the example since she was always about visual breaking gender boundaries. Specially since unlike most superheroes we know she was physically training all her life.

[LordMikel]

Is there some point to how she is drawn that is relevant to the original question? It has been debated for 4 pages now.

[WonderLight789]

Fine if you don't think Shazam and Yara can be in the same category them my point about sexist body designs can also be exemplified by the dudes in the Shazam Family compared to the women:




Boycotting good Wonder Woman stories doesn't help me get what is right. It just comvinces DC that Wonder Woman doesn't deserve investment.



I think you're confused. What I've been criticizing all this time is that artists draw characters with superhuman strength in sexist ways. If they are men they have huge arms, broad shoulders, etc. If they are women they have abs and their arms a bit more defined. And this is because society says buff women aren't attractive. And I think this is sickening and Diana should set the example since she was always about visual breaking gender boundaries. Specially since unlike most superheroes we know she was physically training all her life.

Dc already thinks that WW doesn't deserve investment. This is nothing new. And if the only thing they can do with her is crummy projects. They can keep it.

[WonderLight789]

Is there some point to how she is drawn that is relevant to the original question? It has been debated for 4 pages now.

Not really.

[Alpha]

Is there some point to how she is drawn that is relevant to the original question? It has been debated for 4 pages now.

Welll my critique is that she is literally much smaller than the Batman and Superman in her body type, so I would say I'm right on topic

[LordMikel]

Welll my critique is that she is literally much smaller than the Batman and Superman in her body type, so I would say I'm right on topic

So because she is drawn smaller, she isn't as popular. Ok, we are all entitled to our opinions and you've voiced yours, thank you for that.

Let's move onto something else.

[Alpha]

So because she is drawn smaller, she isn't as popular. Ok, we are all entitled to our opinions and you've voiced yours, thank you for that.

Let's move onto something else.

I'm only responding to other people's counterarguments

[Perseus]

Oh no, Diana is 5'10 instead of 6'5 what a travesty.... smh.

[Alpha]

Oh no, Diana is 5'10 instead of 6'5 what a travesty.... smh.

I wasn't talking about height. I was talking about body size. The image I posted above was about how much larger and bulkier she was than Superman, who justifiably looks like an average dude in body type as he always should

[Perseus]

I wasn't talking about height. I was talking about body size. The image I posted above was about how much larger and bulkier she was than Superman, who justifiably looks like an average dude in body type as he always should

Hot take... Diana, an amazon warrior should have a body type of Greek Olympic athletes and kick boxers, not weightlifters who are clearly jacked on something. I prefer Diana to be flexible enough to wipe her own butt, thanks. lol.

And like LOL on Clark being an average dude body type, like he shouldn't be a muscular guy. Alien super-powers or not dude still worked on a farm most his life, and fights against other powerful villains, that's a workout, my guy.

Do I think comics over do the body type, yeah, but I don't care, its fiction, the body type is meant to be a bit fantastical. Clark isn't super athletic or a kickboxer or a gymnast as Diana is, at least not consistently. He does more of the big hits and weightlifting, so his fictional body is drawn to look more like that body type, again cranked to like 100/10. Diana is the same, or at least should be, albeit for a kickboxer/gymnast not a weightlifter. i.e musled but more toned with lots of definition and thick thighs. I think if Jim Lee drew her with slightly bigger arms I'd prefer his body type for her, he already does the thick thighs.

[Alpha]

And again, people in here supporting sexist body disparities.

If you argument is about their training, Diana would do far more weight training than Clark for a variety of reasons. I'd be more than happy to explain why and continue arguing about that if you want. If your argument is about aesthetic, than that's just regressive social sexist values. Which doesn't mean you are sexist, it just means you are a common person that was raised in this society that pushes sexist body ideals.

I myself love many types of male and female bodies, and have a particular affinity for the extraordinary muscled arms. I think it's a pretty sad day when my girlfriend has more muscled arms than Wonder Woman (to be clear, it's onlu sad because Diana is supposed to be the most extreme power fantasy instead of reinstating regressive aesthetic ideals)

[Perseus]

And again, people in here supporting sexist body disparities.

If you argument is about their training, Diana would do far more weight training than Clark for a variety of reasons. I'd be more than happy to explain why and continue arguing about that if you want. If your argument is about aesthetic, than that's just regressive social sexist values. Which doesn't mean you are sexist, it just means you are a common person that was raised in this society that pushes sexist body ideals.

I myself love many types of male and female bodies, and have a particular affinity for the extraordinary muscled arms. I think it's a pretty sad day when my girlfriend has more muscled arms than Wonder Woman (to be clear, it's onlu sad because Diana is supposed to be the most extreme power fantasy instead of reinstating regressive aesthetic ideals)

what you say, sport. I like Diana as she is, no internalized sexism here.

[Stanlos]

My only thought so far on Diana's body depiction has focused on the way the artist would depict the costume. Marston's idea was to celebrate the woman's athleticism which during the 30s and 40s was not something to do. Women's bodies were shameful and athleticism was for boys.

Marston was constantly evolving his concept (you can see this immediately in the patent application change from "strong as" and "swift as" to "stronger than" and "swifter than" to emphasize dominant force and primacy.

But his changes didn't end there. Despite the many tellings featuring the Gods blessing the babe I was shocked to learn that he actually saw her and her sisters as getting their superhuman powers from Amazon Training and mental discipline. So her skills were ultimately the cause of her powers and legend years before Karate Kid.

That's a bit difficult to reconcile and I wish he had survived long enough to make that evolution.

But knowing that, I feel like the Amazons could be depicted either way so long as femininity is celebrated. There should be Amazons who lean into the the physical training more with builds like Egeria along the lines of Pre-Johns Peege or the original intent for Big Barda (I LOL at the supermodel rendition of Barda because that is so not what she is about--the "Big" is not just height). But there should also be those that lean into the mental portion of the training and whose bodies are not as muscled.

And everything in between.

My own personal fave is how Perez and Byrne did her in Action 600 where she has guns and those powerfully muscled thighs