Reasons other then sexism. why Wonderwoman feels like a smaller part of the big3

[Alan2099]

I myself love many types of male and female bodies, and have a particular affinity for the extraordinary muscled arms. I think it's a pretty sad day when my girlfriend has more muscled arms than Wonder Woman (to be clear, it's onlu sad because Diana is supposed to be the most extreme power fantasy instead of reinstating regressive aesthetic ideals)

That just feels to me like you're going "I know most people prefer the sleek thinner WW but I like muscles, so they're all wrong and I'm right. Cater to me!"

[Alpha]

That just feels to me like you're going "I know most people prefer the sleek thinner WW but I like muscles, so they're all wrong and I'm right. Cater to me!"

Yes I suppose it could sound like that... if you ignore every single thing I said before that. Which I'm guessing you did... in fact...ignore

[OopsIdiditagain]

While we're on sexism (even though ironically the thread explicitly said everything but sexism). I feel like DC's hesitation to cater to younger female audiences is what stopped WW from being as big as Batman and Superman. Even though Batman is loved by all genders he always had all ages media(mainly animated shows) that helped him stay relevant to young generations.

I don't think WW is only aimed at women (imo she's just as a male aimed action adventure hero as Batman or Superman). I think some people behind the scenes thinking differently is what stopped DC from making a show like DC Super Hero Girls and launching the young diana special decades earlier. Otherwise DC would've had a wonder woman show around the time Kim Possible, Powerpuff girls, Totally spies, w.i.t.c.h. and all the other female lead action animations were popular.

[Alpha]

Yes of course. And that's one of the many reasons why I say Amy Reeder should be producing a Wonder Woman show and they should get one of the Producers of Steven Universe and Adventure Time. These are shows that respect all the things that make Diana fascinating and could make her uniquely popular in the kids market (and adults)

[WonderLight789]

alpha may have a point about the body type thing. It can be sexist. And it just goes to prove that we can't really talk about why WW hasn't had a franchise as big as BM or SM, without taking sexism into consideration. This is why to me, the power level arguments shouldn't be ignored. We can't act like sexism is not a main reason why in many cases, she has been been portrayed as inferior to the dudes. Shazam is the perfect example(pre 52) Both share the same power source of Gods. Yet they were more willing to show shazam as an equal to Superman, than the girl that was historically stronger than Hercules, faster Than Mercury, Wise as Athena. You can't tell me sexism had nothing to do with it.

[phonogram12]

Yes of course. And that's one of the many reasons why I say Amy Reeder should be producing a Wonder Woman show and they should get one of the Producers of Steven Universe and Adventure Time. These are shows that respect all the things that make Diana fascinating and could make her uniquely popular in the kids market (and adults)

Both of those cartoons are great and are ridiculously popular with both kids and adults. I'd love to see it, personally.

[bardkeep]

Both of those cartoons are great and are ridiculously popular with both kids and adults. I'd love to see it, personally.

I think I've said something along these lines in another thread but this is why I'm incredibly glad the proposed WW animated show didn't work out and they made the JSA movie instead.

We're talking about a character whose stories include magical space-faring kangaroos, friendly megalodons, a minotaur chef, gladiator fights with mythological monsters in Yankee Stadium, and hyper-intelligent talking gorillas who make terrible housemates. She can travel to other dimensions, fly, and talk to animals and she's got an awesome creative weapon in the lasso. Why would anyone ignore all of that in favor of a show about a dour super strong lady with a sword who goes to fight in World War 2?

There's a reason why Harley Quinn is the only super successful DC animated property in the past decade or so. The fact that it's for adults may factor in, but I think it's also because it's actually fun and dynamic and has great characters. The WW2 angle could work with the classic DCAU style, but that style is bland and lifeless by today's standards.

The ingredients are there. Set it in the modern day and take a mix of the mythological elements, scale, and broader story beats of the Perez era; the action, humor, and characterization of the Gail Simone era; and some general zaniness from the Golden Age (including some of the fun one-shot villains and fantastical elements of Themyscira). Make it look bright and fun, focus on the characters, aim for something in the same tonal universe as Netflix's She-Ra or late Steven Universe, and there, you've got a fantastic animated series.

[Alpha]

Yup, absolutely

[phonogram12]

I think I've said something along these lines in another thread but this is why I'm incredibly glad the proposed WW animated show didn't work out and they made the JSA movie instead.

We're talking about a character whose stories include magical space-faring kangaroos, friendly megalodons, a minotaur chef, gladiator fights with mythological monsters in Yankee Stadium, and hyper-intelligent talking gorillas who make terrible housemates. She can travel to other dimensions, fly, and talk to animals and she's got an awesome creative weapon in the lasso. Why would anyone ignore all of that in favor of a show about a dour super strong lady with a sword who goes to fight in World War 2?

There's a reason why Harley Quinn is the only super successful DC animated property in the past decade or so. The fact that it's for adults may factor in, but I think it's also because it's actually fun and dynamic and has great characters. The WW2 angle could work with the classic DCAU style, but that style is bland and lifeless by today's standards.

The ingredients are there. Set it in the modern day and take a mix of the mythological elements, scale, and broader story beats of the Perez era; the action, humor, and characterization of the Gail Simone era; and some general zaniness from the Golden Age (including some of the fun one-shot villains and fantastical elements of Themyscira). Make it look bright and fun, focus on the characters, aim for something in the same tonal universe as Netflix's She-Ra or late Steven Universe, and there, you've got a fantastic animated series.

All this sounds great and I'd be on board for sure (although I can see some potential backlash similar to what the She-Ra reboot garnered, unfortunately).

[DABellWrites]

The Trinity is one-half marketing because people like seeing Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman together (you hate it, but I'm right). And the other half is the fact those three have had the longest published titles in the company.

[WonderLight789]

The Trinity is one-half marketing because people like seeing Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman together (you hate it, but I'm right). And the other half is the fact those three have had the longest published titles in the company.

You mean people like to see WW as the punching bag and eye candy for SM and BM? Because that is all she does next to him. I don't think most people like that. Most people have never seen WW in a meaningful position next to BM and SM in a story. Because it has never happened. So most people don't know what that would look like.

[phonogram12]

The Trinity is one-half marketing because people like seeing Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman together (you hate it, but I'm right).

I mean, it's obvious to anyone with a pair of working eyes.

[WonderLight789]

I mean, it's obvious to anyone with a pair of working eyes.

The only thing that should be obvious. Is that WW is only a stepping stone to make the other 2 look cool everytime they appear together.

[Stanlos]

The Trinity is one-half marketing because people like seeing Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman together (you hate it, but I'm right). And the other half is the fact those three have had the longest published titles in the company.

The last part is the relevant part and what makes EACH of them iconic

[Agent Z]

I think I've said something along these lines in another thread but this is why I'm incredibly glad the proposed WW animated show didn't work out and they made the JSA movie instead.

We're talking about a character whose stories include magical space-faring kangaroos, friendly megalodons, a minotaur chef, gladiator fights with mythological monsters in Yankee Stadium, and hyper-intelligent talking gorillas who make terrible housemates. She can travel to other dimensions, fly, and talk to animals and she's got an awesome creative weapon in the lasso. Why would anyone ignore all of that in favor of a show about a dour super strong lady with a sword who goes to fight in World War 2?

There's a reason why Harley Quinn is the only super successful DC animated property in the past decade or so. The fact that it's for adults may factor in, but I think it's also because it's actually fun and dynamic and has great characters. The WW2 angle could work with the classic DCAU style, but that style is bland and lifeless by today's standards.

The ingredients are there. Set it in the modern day and take a mix of the mythological elements, scale, and broader story beats of the Perez era; the action, humor, and characterization of the Gail Simone era; and some general zaniness from the Golden Age (including some of the fun one-shot villains and fantastical elements of Themyscira). Make it look bright and fun, focus on the characters, aim for something in the same tonal universe as Netflix's She-Ra or late Steven Universe, and there, you've got a fantastic animated series.

You're forgetting Young Justice which also does big numbers and Teen Titans Go which is one of CN's most watched shows, far more than Harley Quinn. And it isn't like the Harley Quinn show has much in the way of competition since there are barely any other DC cartoons airing to begin with. Hell, DC Superhero Girls did what you suggested and only lasted two seasons.