Rumor: Giancarlo Esposito as Prof. X

[AnakinFlair]

I would honestly rather see him as Magneto

I think most people are ignoring that fact that the comic book industry spent decades avoiding any type of minority character out of fear of angering racists.

When I say racists, I mean the southern distributors who would refuse to carry any comic with a non white lead. Publishers would make editorial and story decisions to minimize any non white character and conform to certain stereotypes

Captain America met the Falcon, Sam Wilson was revealed to be a former pimp and criminal who was brainwashed.

Storm came from Africa, where the natives worshipped her as a goddess, and she has trouble with simple concepts like why people have to wear clothes around the other team members.

Luke Cage couldn't just be a superhero, he was an escaped con who lived in Harlem and beat up people who owed him money.

Even characters that were based on mixed race backgrounds (Yul Brynner for Charles Xavier, Charles Bronson for Hogun the Grim) wound up whitewashed in the finished comic.

The fact that 99.9% of heroic characters created from 1930s - 1970s are white is not for story purposes or any artistic value. It was to cater to people who really don't like to see BIPOC as heroes.

The argument that changing a white character to a minority is the exact same as changing a minority character to white is downright asinine. The simple fact is that white characters are vastly overrepresented while minority characters are vastly underrepresented. To ignore this is to ignore basically the entire history of race relations in America.



Let's be honest... there is a resistance (or actually an active push) in some parts of the audience to to refuse any changes in presentation of characters without any regard to the racist history and origins. The same people who squeal like a stuck pig when any change is made to race, have no problem with an American character being played by a British actor.
]
At the end of the day, there is no in story reason for most white characters to be white. There is an in story reason why most minority characters are minorities.

Absolutely everything you said has merit (though lets be honest- most American's wouldn't know a British actor was playing an American character unless they A) knew of them from British cinema, and B) hear them speak with their natural accent. There have been a few actors- Florence Pugh comes to mind- that I didn't realize they were British until I hear them talk in an interview).

That being said-

For someone like me, my problem with colorblind casting is that I've spent 30+ years reading comics, where characters were drawn in a specific way. So when a comic I love is adapted to the big screen, I have an expectation that they will cast the actors to resemble their comic book counterparts as closely as possible. So if they are white in the comics, I want to see them as white on the screen.

Sometimes, I don't mind as much. I had no problem with Zoe Kravitz playing Catwoman in The Batman- there has been a black Catwoman before, and besides that Zoe nailed it. I thought that having Johnny Storm played by Michael B. Jordan in Fantastic Four was done well, in that the Storms were a African American family, with Sue being adopted by them. Probably the only good thing in that movie. I've liked Iris West, and all of the West family, on The Flash, even though the character was white in the comics. I even came around and really enjoyed Jurnee Smollet-Bell as Dinah Lance, even though I RAILED against that casting when it was announced.

But overall, I'm of the mind that if you want representation in a comic book movie, then maybe you should create a NEW character. Create something memorable, something that gets over with the people. Or adapt a lesser known or minor character, someone no one really knows. I'd say that's what they did with Dreamer on Supergirl, and she's now made the jump back to comics. They created Rene Montoya for Batman: TAS, and she made the jump to the comics and became super popular. And Marvel already changes the history of their characters all of the time to fit into the MCU- no where have they ever said Sam Wilson in the movies used to be a pimp.

I would rather them take the effort to create a new character, rather than do colorblind casting in a lazy attempt at representation.

[hyped78]

For someone like me, my problem with colorblind casting is that I've spent 30+ years reading comics, where characters were drawn in a specific way. So when a comic I love is adapted to the big screen, I have an expectation that they will cast the actors to resemble their comic book counterparts as closely as possible. So if they are white in the comics, I want to see them as white on the screen.

But overall, I'm of the mind that if you want representation in a comic book movie, then maybe you should create a NEW character. Create something memorable, something that gets over with the people. Or adapt a lesser known or minor character, someone no one really knows. I'd say that's what they did with Dreamer on Supergirl, and she's now made the jump back to comics. They created Rene Montoya for Batman: TAS, and she made the jump to the comics and became super popular. And Marvel already changes the history of their characters all of the time to fit into the MCU- no where have they ever said Sam Wilson in the movies used to be a pimp.

I would rather them take the effort to create a new character, rather than do colorblind casting in a lazy attempt at representation.

This is 100% what I think. You’ve just articulated my own thoughts better than I can

[Ulysian_Thracs]

I think most people are ignoring that fact that the comic book industry spent decades avoiding any type of minority character out of fear of angering racists.

When I say racists, I mean the southern distributors who would refuse to carry any comic with a non white lead. Publishers would make editorial and story decisions to minimize any non white character and conform to certain stereotypes

Captain America met the Falcon, Sam Wilson was revealed to be a former pimp and criminal who was brainwashed.

Storm came from Africa, where the natives worshipped her as a goddess, and she has trouble with simple concepts like why people have to wear clothes around the other team members.

Luke Cage couldn't just be a superhero, he was an escaped con who lived in Harlem and beat up people who owed him money.

Even characters that were based on mixed race backgrounds (Yul Brynner for Charles Xavier, Charles Bronson for Hogun the Grim) wound up whitewashed in the finished comic.

The fact that 99.9% of heroic characters created from 1930s - 1970s are white is not for story purposes or any artistic value. It was to cater to people who really don't like to see BIPOC as heroes.

The argument that changing a white character to a minority is the exact same as changing a minority character to white is downright asinine. The simple fact is that white characters are vastly overrepresented while minority characters are vastly underrepresented. To ignore this is to ignore basically the entire history of race relations in America.



Let's be honest... there is a resistance (or actually an active push) in some parts of the audience to to refuse any changes in presentation of characters without any regard to the racist history and origins. The same people who squeal like a stuck pig when any change is made to race, have no problem with an American character being played by a British actor.
]
At the end of the day, there is no in story reason for most white characters to be white. There is an in story reason why most minority characters are minorities.

You are right about the lack of inclusion back in the day, but the double standard you use is completely without merit. Simply put, you can't have it both ways.

You say there is no story reason for Xavier to be white, ignoring 60 years of character development, but you fail to state that there is even less story reason for him to be black. It is a gratuitous change that is not for storytelling reasons, but for 'wokeness'. In fact, you have to change his story or Magnetos or Johnny Storm's or any other character's to change their race, either a little or a lot. And that gets to my bottom line that there is no difference between changing Magneto's background as a Holocaust survivor to a Civil Rights era radical, making storm a white Bavarian lightning goddess, or making Luke Cage a poor white Appalachian escaped con.

Well, there is a difference...a racial double standard, which is a form of discrimination. And in my opinion, if you only oppose discrimination when it go in one direction, your issue isn't actually being against discrimination as a practice. You just want to make sure that you (or the people you sympathize with) aren't being discriminated against. And that selective outrage and double standard has been precisely one of the criticisms of northern Civil Rights era white society who took no part in Jim Crowe, but also did little or nothing to help break down the barriers faced by minorities in America. It didn't affect them, so it wasn't their problem. (To theirs and America's shame.)

While it’s no surprise that some wouldn’t like the choice for various reasons, some people just don’t like change. I find it hard to believe that the choice of Mr. Esposito as Prof. X would have a real impact on the success or failure of the movie.

Did casting a black actor as Nick Fury hurt the Avengers or the rest of the MCU movies he’s been in?
Did casting a black actor as Gordon hurt The Batman?

I don’t think it did. I don’t think it would hurt an X-Men movie either. Certain people would complain like they always do and make gloom and doom predictions and then be proven wrong when the movie is a hit. I mean a new X-Men movie from Marvel is about as close as you can get to a sure thing. Even the haters won’t be able to resist going to see it.

I think X-Men is exactly the movie you DON'T do this with, actually. A big part of the audience will be kids from the 70s, 80s, and 90s who haven't picked up a comic book or thought about X-Men since the last films. You want to capture a nostalgic factor, and you lose that if there are a bunch of characters nobody recognizes on the trailer.

Absolutely everything you said has merit (though lets be honest- most American's wouldn't know a British actor was playing an American character unless they A) knew of them from British cinema, and B) hear them speak with their natural accent. There have been a few actors- Florence Pugh comes to mind- that I didn't realize they were British until I hear them talk in an interview).

That being said-

For someone like me, my problem with colorblind casting is that I've spent 30+ years reading comics, where characters were drawn in a specific way. So when a comic I love is adapted to the big screen, I have an expectation that they will cast the actors to resemble their comic book counterparts as closely as possible. So if they are white in the comics, I want to see them as white on the screen.

Sometimes, I don't mind as much. I had no problem with Zoe Kravitz playing Catwoman in The Batman- there has been a black Catwoman before, and besides that Zoe nailed it. I thought that having Johnny Storm played by Michael B. Jordan in Fantastic Four was done well, in that the Storms were a African American family, with Sue being adopted by them. Probably the only good thing in that movie. I've liked Iris West, and all of the West family, on The Flash, even though the character was white in the comics. I even came around and really enjoyed Jurnee Smollet-Bell as Dinah Lance, even though I RAILED against that casting when it was announced.

But overall, I'm of the mind that if you want representation in a comic book movie, then maybe you should create a NEW character. Create something memorable, something that gets over with the people. Or adapt a lesser known or minor character, someone no one really knows. I'd say that's what they did with Dreamer on Supergirl, and she's now made the jump back to comics. They created Rene Montoya for Batman: TAS, and she made the jump to the comics and became super popular. And Marvel already changes the history of their characters all of the time to fit into the MCU- no where have they ever said Sam Wilson in the movies used to be a pimp.

I would rather them take the effort to create a new character, rather than do colorblind casting in a lazy attempt at representation.

This is exactly where I am, as well. It seems to me that most of the people who want to see all these white characters race-swapped (while opposing any minority character getting 'whitewashed') do so out of spite more than anything. 'I didn't see enough people who look like me when I was growing up, so now I'm gonna make sure you don't see anyone who looks like you!'

To me, the whole thing is petty and counterproductive from the studio's standpoint, and if you read the trades you are seeing studios waking up to the realization that you have to put business first. You want more people to watch your movie, not less. And there is a much easier and safer way to bring more inclusion into entertainment than gratuitously race-swapping long established and beloved characters for no organic storytelling reason.

As you stated soo well, the way to do it isn't to pull chairs out from people already sitting, but to make a bigger table and add more chairs for new characters that can stand on their own. And we've seen them do this so well over the past two decades that there just isn't a need to court this controversy. IMO

[numberthirty]

...

I think X-Men is exactly the movie you DON'T do this with, actually. A big part of the audience will be kids from the 70s, 80s, and 90s who haven't picked up a comic book or thought about X-Men since the last films. You want to capture a nostalgic factor, and you lose that if there are a bunch of characters nobody recognizes on the trailer.

...

Literally had a super tanned Jean Grey and Wolverine that was over six feet...

Some of these grumbles?

They will literally only matter to an incredibly small slice of comic book reading fussbudgets.

[Ulysian_Thracs]

Literally had a super tanned Jean Grey and Wolverine that was over six feet...

Some of these grumbles?

They will literally only matter to an incredibly small slice of comic book reading fussbudgets.

I don't recall thinking Famke Jannsen would make a bad Jean Grey. But I did think at the time Hugh Jackman was a bad choice for Logan and I was 100% dead f@#king wrong. He was iconic in the role.

But the point where I disagree with you is that while 'an incredibly small slice of comic book reading fussbudgets' will whine and moan and then go see the movie because they are already committed to X-Men, I am talking about the general public audience as a whole. People who aren't X-Men fans ( I know those of us here who talk about them all the time forget those people exist) who are just looking at whether to spend $20 on yet another Marvel action movie in a time of tightening belts. My opinion is don't give anyone a reason not to come see an X-Men movie if you want a bunch of sequels.

And again I point to Toy Story as the most recent example. It should've been a blockbuster. Every kids loves Toy Story. But a solid half of America is sick to death with the culture war and enough of them stayed home to tank the movie's profit expectations.

[numberthirty]

Non-Asian Ra's al Ghul?

Jane and John Movie Goer had right around "Zero..." problem.

Sawed off Bane?

Jane and John Movie Goer had right around "Zero..." problem.

African-American Jim Gordon?

Jane and John Movie Goer had right around "Zero..." problem.

[HollowSage]

I don't recall thinking Famke Jannsen would make a bad Jean Grey. But I did think at the time Hugh Jackman was a bad choice for Logan and I was 100% dead f@#king wrong. He was iconic in the role.

But the point where I disagree with you is that while 'an incredibly small slice of comic book reading fussbudgets' will whine and moan and then go see the movie because they are already committed to X-Men, I am talking about the general public audience as a whole. People who aren't X-Men fans ( I know those of us here who talk about them all the time forget those people exist) who are just looking at whether to spend $20 on yet another Marvel action movie in a time of tightening belts. My opinion is don't give anyone a reason not to come see an X-Men movie if you want a bunch of sequels.

And again I point to Toy Story as the most recent example. It should've been a blockbuster. Every kids loves Toy Story. But a solid half of America is sick to death with the culture war and enough of them stayed home to tank the movie's profit expectations.

You honestly think Lightyear failed because of a lesbian kiss? That’s a minor part of the movie that I doubt half of America even know about. Lightyear had a few problems that contributed to it’s poor showing. Such as having a confusing connection to the Toy Story movies. Was it a movie about the Buzz Lightyear toy or about the real person the toy is based on? They had to explain that it was the movie Andy saw and then wanted the toy.

No one was interested in Buzz Lightyear’s backstory. If it was an actual Toy Story movie set in that world it would have done much better.

I guess if Dr. Strange 2 had bombed some people would blame it on the fact that America Chavez had two moms.

[numberthirty]

You honestly think Lightyear failed because of a lesbian kiss? ThatÂ’s a minor part of the movie that I doubt half of America even know about. Lightyear had a few problems that contributed to itÂ’s poor showing. Such as having a confusing connection to the Toy Story movies. Was it a movie about the Buzz Lightyear toy or about the real person the toy is based on? They had to explain that it was the movie Andy saw and then wanted the toy.

No one was interested in Buzz LightyearÂ’s backstory. If it was an actual Toy Story movie set in that world it would have done much better.

I guess if Dr. Strange 2 had bombed some people would blame it on the fact that America Chavez had two moms.

Don't even get me started...

Two Asgardians that are clearly not anything like "White..."

You know how many John and Jane Publics threw a fit and sat some movies out over them?

No.

Because this bit really don't mean anything to your average American movie goer.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Absolutely everything you said has merit (though lets be honest- most American's wouldn't know a British actor was playing an American character unless they A) knew of them from British cinema, and B) hear them speak with their natural accent. There have been a few actors- Florence Pugh comes to mind- that I didn't realize they were British until I hear them talk in an interview).

That being said-

For someone like me, my problem with colorblind casting is that I've spent 30+ years reading comics, where characters were drawn in a specific way. So when a comic I love is adapted to the big screen, I have an expectation that they will cast the actors to resemble their comic book counterparts as closely as possible. So if they are white in the comics, I want to see them as white on the screen.

Sometimes, I don't mind as much. I had no problem with Zoe Kravitz playing Catwoman in The Batman- there has been a black Catwoman before, and besides that Zoe nailed it. I thought that having Johnny Storm played by Michael B. Jordan in Fantastic Four was done well, in that the Storms were a African American family, with Sue being adopted by them. Probably the only good thing in that movie. I've liked Iris West, and all of the West family, on The Flash, even though the character was white in the comics. I even came around and really enjoyed Jurnee Smollet-Bell as Dinah Lance, even though I RAILED against that casting when it was announced.

But overall, I'm of the mind that if you want representation in a comic book movie, then maybe you should create a NEW character. Create something memorable, something that gets over with the people. Or adapt a lesser known or minor character, someone no one really knows. I'd say that's what they did with Dreamer on Supergirl, and she's now made the jump back to comics. They created Rene Montoya for Batman: TAS, and she made the jump to the comics and became super popular. And Marvel already changes the history of their characters all of the time to fit into the MCU- no where have they ever said Sam Wilson in the movies used to be a pimp.

I would rather them take the effort to create a new character, rather than do colorblind casting in a lazy attempt at representation.

Careful, those comments will have people labelling you as racist.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

Love Esposito, I'd rather have McAvoy back tho.

[Ulysian_Thracs]

You honestly think Lightyear failed because of a lesbian kiss? That’s a minor part of the movie that I doubt half of America even know about. Lightyear had a few problems that contributed to it’s poor showing. Such as having a confusing connection to the Toy Story movies. Was it a movie about the Buzz Lightyear toy or about the real person the toy is based on? They had to explain that it was the movie Andy saw and then wanted the toy.

No one was interested in Buzz Lightyear’s backstory. If it was an actual Toy Story movie set in that world it would have done much better.

I guess if Dr. Strange 2 had bombed some people would blame it on the fact that America Chavez had two moms.

The kiss had nothing to do with the movie, which makes it even stupider to court the controversy over something that didn't matter. So in that sense you are correct. It wasn't a story issue. And it equally wasn't a story issue that people don't want to see Buzz Lightyear's backstory. It wasn't confusing in any way. It was the story about a beloved character who has sold BILLIONS of dollars worth of merchandise over decades. It was one of Pixar's flagship properties and a Toy Story movie! Every parent wants to take their kids to see Pixar summer blockbusters and Toy story movies, or at least download them when they become available.

Well, except this one. And we have a clear answer why. The controversy over a three second kiss hurt this movie because there is a plurality of Americans who don't want to see the culture war in their children's entertainment.

Don't even get me started...

Two Asgardians that are clearly not anything like "White..."

You know how many John and Jane Publics threw a fit and sat some movies out over them?

No.

Because this bit really don't mean anything to your average American movie goer.

Except Love and Thunder didn't do so great at the box office either, considering it is a Marvel movie. And this is something we've seen a lot with these kinds of supe moves; a strong opening weekend from the die hard fans who don't care, and then a crater for second week as they just don't get John and Jane public interested in them.

Careful, those comments will have people labelling you as racist.

The problem with calling everything and everyone you disagree with racist (or sexist or homophobic) is that the word loses all meaning and no one cares when you use it anymore. There is real racism and real racists out there still, and the people who say that it is racist to want to see a character be portrayed the way he has been portrayed for the last sixty years and not change his backstory to fit some people's agenda are giving those real racists cover.

[Username taken]

Careful, those comments will have people labelling you as racist.

No one on this board will though.

[Rincewind]

Absolutely everything you said has merit (though lets be honest- most American's wouldn't know a British actor was playing an American character unless they A) knew of them from British cinema, and B) hear them speak with their natural accent. There have been a few actors- Florence Pugh comes to mind- that I didn't realize they were British until I hear them talk in an interview).

That being said-

For someone like me, my problem with colorblind casting is that I've spent 30+ years reading comics, where characters were drawn in a specific way. So when a comic I love is adapted to the big screen, I have an expectation that they will cast the actors to resemble their comic book counterparts as closely as possible. So if they are white in the comics, I want to see them as white on the screen.

Sometimes, I don't mind as much. I had no problem with Zoe Kravitz playing Catwoman in The Batman- there has been a black Catwoman before, and besides that Zoe nailed it. I thought that having Johnny Storm played by Michael B. Jordan in Fantastic Four was done well, in that the Storms were a African American family, with Sue being adopted by them. Probably the only good thing in that movie. I've liked Iris West, and all of the West family, on The Flash, even though the character was white in the comics. I even came around and really enjoyed Jurnee Smollet-Bell as Dinah Lance, even though I RAILED against that casting when it was announced.

But overall, I'm of the mind that if you want representation in a comic book movie, then maybe you should create a NEW character. Create something memorable, something that gets over with the people. Or adapt a lesser known or minor character, someone no one really knows. I'd say that's what they did with Dreamer on Supergirl, and she's now made the jump back to comics. They created Rene Montoya for Batman: TAS, and she made the jump to the comics and became super popular. And Marvel already changes the history of their characters all of the time to fit into the MCU- no where have they ever said Sam Wilson in the movies used to be a pimp.

I would rather them take the effort to create a new character, rather than do colorblind casting in a lazy attempt at representation.

My point on the British vs American actors was referencing Patrick Stewart and James McAvoy. These are all British actors with distinctive British voices playing non British characters while not even trying to hide their accent. An original Americna character is now clearly British changing the nationality and heritage of the character. These castings are considered ideal despite the changes.

There is also the case of the portrayal of Wolverine. In the comics, Wolverine is short, stout, and at best is considered "unconventionally attractive". In the movies, he is played by 6 foot tall, handsome Hugh Jackman. In the comics, Jean Grey slowly discovers that the brutish animal exterior hides a wounded noble spirit who is always trying to be better. Her attraction to Logan is based on that slow process. In the movies, Jean sees Hugh Jackman take his shirt off. These are fundamental changes to the character that change the story being told. But Hugh Jackman is still considered excellent casting.

There is also the Bucky Barnes. In the comics, Bucky is a minor who first meets Steve after he becomes Captain America. In the movies, Bucky is the same age and has known Steve since childhood. This is a fundamental change that results in a different story from the comics. But there is no outcry of "wokeness" or "pandering" or accusations that the filmmakers are being lazy.

In every adaption, changes are made to the character. Changes are made to nationality, age, and basic physical appearance. Why is it, that these changes are accepted without question, but changing race provokes such an outcry? Perhaps one should (much like Peter Parker in Into the Spiderverse) examine one's own personal biases.

I understand that you want to see the movies reflect the comics you grew up with. People who spent 30+ years reading comics (which includes me) are only a small section of a potential audience. Catering to the preferences of one small section is still a form of pandering. New adaptions should not be bound by nostalgia for the past versions. New adaptions should reflect the world as it is now. And the world we live in is much more diverse and complex than the world envisioned by a bunch of middle aged white guys back in the 1960s. Showing a more diverse world gives adaptions verisimilitude (thank you, Richard Donner) in a way that a a more nostalgic version does not.

For me it boils down to nostalgia vs verisimilitude. I will choose the latter every time.

Or to bring it back on topic, a talented actor like Giancarlo Esposito as Charles Xavier would be awesome sauce.

[Fridays]

Absolutely everything you said has merit (though lets be honest- most American's wouldn't know a British actor was playing an American character unless they A) knew of them from British cinema, and B) hear them speak with their natural accent. There have been a few actors- Florence Pugh comes to mind- that I didn't realize they were British until I hear them talk in an interview).

That being said-

For someone like me, my problem with colorblind casting is that I've spent 30+ years reading comics, where characters were drawn in a specific way. So when a comic I love is adapted to the big screen, I have an expectation that they will cast the actors to resemble their comic book counterparts as closely as possible. So if they are white in the comics, I want to see them as white on the screen.

Sometimes, I don't mind as much. I had no problem with Zoe Kravitz playing Catwoman in The Batman- there has been a black Catwoman before, and besides that Zoe nailed it. I thought that having Johnny Storm played by Michael B. Jordan in Fantastic Four was done well, in that the Storms were a African American family, with Sue being adopted by them. Probably the only good thing in that movie. I've liked Iris West, and all of the West family, on The Flash, even though the character was white in the comics. I even came around and really enjoyed Jurnee Smollet-Bell as Dinah Lance, even though I RAILED against that casting when it was announced.

But overall, I'm of the mind that if you want representation in a comic book movie, then maybe you should create a NEW character. Create something memorable, something that gets over with the people. Or adapt a lesser known or minor character, someone no one really knows. I'd say that's what they did with Dreamer on Supergirl, and she's now made the jump back to comics. They created Rene Montoya for Batman: TAS, and she made the jump to the comics and became super popular. And Marvel already changes the history of their characters all of the time to fit into the MCU- no where have they ever said Sam Wilson in the movies used to be a pimp.

I would rather them take the effort to create a new character, rather than do colorblind casting in a lazy attempt at representation.

Color blind casting is not something I fully enjoy or am against either. It is just one of those things that there is no simple answer of how and why it needs to be done for a particular character.

I do tend to question people when they get so riled up about it and need to make 50 videos on youtube to explain why they are so against it.

Xavier is an iconic Marvel character. We have imagined him as white for over 70 years as that was the way his race was presented to us. I too, will rather just leave it that way.

[Username taken]

The reason why people are suggesting Esposito isn't "just" for race-swapping.

It's because Esposito is a darn good actor that's been very good in everything he's been in from the old Spike Lee movies to recent stuff like Breaking Bad and the Boys.

He wouldn't be my first choice to play Professor X as I said earlier but I can't imagine there will be much controversy if someone like him was cast as Magneto or Professor X. Most of the general public isn't that familiar with the comic, they will only see a very good actor playing a role. Even if they were, very few people will legitimately be opposed to great actors playing "race-neutral" roles (some characters' race is intrinsic to their being like Dr Doom, Black Panther, and the likes). Also, saying that you'd much rather see an actor that looks like the character play the role isn't a "racist" statement, that's people being overly-defensive. There's a simple middle-ground to be had here and people can agree and disagree.

The problem arises when people start utilizing alt-right terminology as the moderator pointed out. That speaks more to individuals' personal beliefs than the actual issue being discussed.