Who found conclusive evidence that Bruce was still alive?

[Fergus]

According to Red Robin fans, Tim was the only one who knew that Bruce was alive and the one who saved him.

However, Rereading Morrison's Batman run [along with Tie ins to Blackest night]
Dick Grayson discovers that Bruce's body is a fake. We are shown the steps that led him to this discovery following a question asked by Jason.

We see Alfred discover the secret compartment with the painting that Damian suggests might include his dad.
We see Dick go to the JL and discover that the Omega Sanction can send people back in time.

I'm confused.

Why do fans say Tim was the only one who knew Bruce was alive and the one who brought him back?

What proof did Tim have to back up his belief/claim?
How exactly did he discover the evidence that made and how did Tim bring him back?

It seems to me that Dick Grayson was the one who found proof that Bruce was still alive and I can see the steps by which he discovered this and the part other Batfamily members and allies played [even Batwoman and the JL are involved]

Why is Tim credited for finding Bruce and bringing him back when it seems that it was a joint effort? A lot of Bruce's family and allies played a part.

Am I missing something?

[exile001]

Those self-confessed Tim fans are probably being biased or just didn't read is as thoroughly as you. Or you're not a Tim fan and taking those words too literally, giving a small group too much weight, and are looking to discredit them.

Either way, it's probably not that deep.

[Lal]

According to Red Robin fans, Tim was the only one who knew that Bruce was alive and the one who saved him.

However, Rereading Morrison's Batman run [along with Tie ins to Blackest night]
Dick Grayson discovers that Bruce's body is a fake. We are shown the steps that led him to this discovery following a question asked by Jason.

We see Alfred discover the secret compartment with the painting that Damian suggests might include his dad.
We see Dick go to the JL and discover that the Omega Sanction can send people back in time.

I'm confused.

Why do fans say Tim was the only one who knew Bruce was alive and the one who brought him back?

What proof did Tim have to back up his belief/claim?
How exactly did he discover the evidence that made and how did Tim bring him back?

It seems to me that Dick Grayson was the one who found proof that Bruce was still alive and I can see the steps by which he discovered this and the part other Batfamily members and allies played [even Batwoman and the JL are involved]

Why is Tim credited for finding Bruce and bringing him back when it seems that it was a joint effort? A lot of Bruce's family and allies played a part.

Am I missing something?

Tim was the first to believe that Bruce isn't really dead, but he didn't have any concrete evidence to support this belief, so he wasn't a detective figuring out the mystery first, but a teenager in a bad mantle state and very likely in denial (which is totally understandable, but not an indication that he's a great detective).

Dick and Damian found the evidence that Bruce is alive, so technically if Tim stayed in Gotham and helped them it wouldn't change the final outcome.

[sunofdarkchild]

Tim found the cave painting Bruce made of a bat after he was blasted into the prehistoric past, and somehow this was conclusive proof that Bruce was still alive, though I don't remember why he took it as 'proof' of anything.

[redmax99]

According to Red Robin fans, Tim was the only one who knew that Bruce was alive and the one who saved him.

However, Rereading Morrison's Batman run [along with Tie ins to Blackest night]
Dick Grayson discovers that Bruce's body is a fake. We are shown the steps that led him to this discovery following a question asked by Jason.

We see Alfred discover the secret compartment with the painting that Damian suggests might include his dad.
We see Dick go to the JL and discover that the Omega Sanction can send people back in time.

I'm confused.

Why do fans say Tim was the only one who knew Bruce was alive and the one who brought him back?

What proof did Tim have to back up his belief/claim?
How exactly did he discover the evidence that made and how did Tim bring him back?

It seems to me that Dick Grayson was the one who found proof that Bruce was still alive and I can see the steps by which he discovered this and the part other Batfamily members and allies played [even Batwoman and the JL are involved]

Why is Tim credited for finding Bruce and bringing him back when it seems that it was a joint effort? A lot of Bruce's family and allies played a part.

Am I missing something?

Well considering after blackest night Hal said Tim was right Batman may still be alive Tim did and it took dick what 2 issue of.his story to come to the conclusion Bruce was.alive while Tim whole story arc was proving he was

You said conclusive evidence neither dick saw a painting while Tim saw a picture that look like Bruce

[Godlike13]

Tim found the cave painting Bruce made of a bat after he was blasted into the prehistoric past, and somehow this was conclusive proof that Bruce was still alive, though I don't remember why he took it as 'proof' of anything.

Well he somehow found another cave painting that was pretty much identical to the one Bruce made, though it couldn’t be the one Bruce made as Bruce made that one in what would enviably become the Batcave.

[OOPS]

I always felt it was more that Tim believed from the start, while Dick didn't have the luxury of belief due to the weight of responsibility. Damian wouldn't have really cared at that stage-Briluce was a stranger and Damian had been raised to believe whatever he was told. Alfred's judgment was clouded by grief and needing to support Dick and Damian. Jason was fighting his own battles. Tim believed and he is the Robin most focused on Batman. Without Batman, Tim struggles with identity.

I think the strength in the storylines from that period was that each character was coming to the problem from the characters own perspective ans personally. To the point its not so much who found Bruce, but the path and at its core the team contrubtion, even when the team was splintered.

[Frontier]

Is this a thread for basically discrediting Tim?

[Fergus]

Is this a thread for basically discrediting Tim?

no. It's a thread asking for help.

I'm having a debate on another forum with a fan who insists that Tim was the only who believed and the one who investigated, found proof and brought Bruce back.

I argued that it was Dick and Alfred in london.

I didn't follow RR so asking for clarity from others who have read the series.

Looks like we were both wrong since I forgot about Jason, Damian and batwoman helping

[Fergus]

I always felt it was more that Tim believed from the start, while Dick didn't have the luxury of belief due to the weight of responsibility. Damian wouldn't have really cared at that stage-Briluce was a stranger and Damian had been raised to believe whatever he was told. Alfred's judgment was clouded by grief and needing to support Dick and Damian. Jason was fighting his own battles. Tim believed and he is the Robin most focused on Batman. Without Batman, Tim struggles with identity.

I think the strength in the storylines from that period was that each character was coming to the problem from the characters own perspective ans personally. To the point its not so much who found Bruce, but the path and at its core the team contrubtion, even when the team was splintered.

Yes. The fact that it was a team of allies and family that Bruce had accumulated over the years was lost on me the first time I read the saga.

I think it was a nice touch and fitting that Morrison had everyone play a role. It significant and honours Bruce. Just like Morrison's run was intended to honour/pull together Batman's entire history through the era.

Very nice done.

[Noodle]

Realistic answer?

Morrison had a story he wanted to tell, but since the Bat-group is an entire brand with multiple books associated with it, other writers had to work around it and sometimes they didn't add up exactly with each other.

[OOPS]

Is this a thread for basically discrediting Tim?

I don't understand; why is asking a question discrediting the character Tim Drake?

[Felipe Silveira]

I don't understand; why is asking a question discrediting the character Tim Drake?

It's because it affects "Tim is the best detective", which can hardly be taken for granted since everyone at Batfam is an excellent detective.