Should the Mutants stay out from the comfort zones?

[ZephyrSurf]

I will never understand this obsession with people wanting mutants outside of the X line or X books its so weird to me

I mean there's any number of reasons.

You could want to see their dynamic with other characters.
You might want them to flesh out an aspect of their character that gets no play in the X-books.
You might want to see them get used, which they don't in the X-books.
You might want to see their fresh perspective in an area that's not X-book related.


Them being Mutants doesn't preclude their ability to do other things, or be elsewhere. Hell there are a handful of mutants that've never even touched an X-book.

In this thread alone you've got people pointing to the excellent treatment characters like Roberto, Rogue and Beast have gotten outside the X-books. I don't see how in any way it's a negative to want the possibility of a favorite of yours being treated better, or being treated at all elsewhere.

[Force de Phenix]

If you want just regular human super heroes I don't see why you are reading X books. Mutants are not just a hero team. That X gene is a burden that they carry with them through all their lives not a costume that can just come on and off.

It's very odd that you want them to just act like they are like everyone else when the whole point of mutants is that they are not treated like everyone else because of their X gene

But they are just regular superheroes when they're on a team with other enhanced humans. We know the difference between Tigra and Wolfsbane is that one at the X-Gene, but there isn't much anything else that set them apart power wise. The Hulk has a heavier burden than most of the mutants and so does Spider-Man. Spider-Man is miserable because he feels morally obligated to use his gift to help people. Mutants don't exactly feel morally obliged to become superheroes. The Hulk's powers are a curse to him. Black Bolt can't speak and was forbidden to have children because of his powers.

The X-Men are the mutant Avengers. They're the ones who chose to do something with their powers to help like the Avengers. I say it's monotone because they are too self contained and leaving their comfort zone gives them new stories they could grow from.

And the mutant thing gets tossed out the window because it's hard to be singled out as a dangerous meta human when you're on a team with several of them. Wanda, Pietro, and Firestar's mutant status wasn't the most important thing in their stories when not in X-Men books.

[Riv86672]

If you want just regular human super heroes I don't see why you are reading X books. Mutants are not just a hero team. That X gene is a burden that they carry with them through all their lives not a costume that can just come on and off.

It's very odd that you want them to just act like they are like everyone else when the whole point of mutants is that they are not treated like everyone else because of their X gene

^^^Reminds me of being stationed in Texas 25 years ago and getting flack from other Black Soldiers about hanging out w. White guys/gals and going to certain types of clubs and bars.
Of course, I’d also get flack from some ppl at those clubs and bars for being there.

You’re right in that the X-gene is a burden, but when I was growing up X-Men comics were about not being defined solely by that burden (man has THAT message changed). The X-Men lived their best lives regardless and hung out w. who they liked, went where they wanted…
…like I said before segregation is silly; wether it’s forced on you or self imposed.

[Zelena]

It's very odd that you want them to just act like they are like everyone else when the whole point of mutants is that they are not treated like everyone else because of their X gene

During a long time, the X-men were acting like everyone else, though: we often saw them shopping, playing base-ball, celebrating Thanksgiving… Everything had been done to show that, despite having a strange appearance (sometimes) and cool powers (always), they were like you and me (minus the fact they were living in a beautiful house and looked well-off).

Of course, humans were afraid of them, but mutates were feared too…

For the readers, the X-men were like them and the humans in the comics were wrong to consider them as “different”… We, readers, were “insiders” in the X-men group.

Now, what? Are the readers different? They are still human and the X-men are no longer “human”? I’m puzzled by these comics that focus more on what sets us apart than what brings us together.

[PolarIceFire]

These last 4 posts are PERFECTLY, and POSITIVELY... SUBLIME!!!

And prove, *in my mind*... that there is ONLY 1 CORRECT ANSWER... OF COURSE!!

Kwannon/Psylocke herself, pretty much told us why in HeLLions [or eXcab? can't remember eXactly], but I don't have time rn to find the eXact eXcerpt.

Characters > metaphor, just like e.g. ... Batman fam > Gotham.

Backdrops ARE... just that:

• the setting or background for a scene, event, or situation.

"the conference took place against a backdrop of increasing diplomatic activity"

Integrationist > *insular*... SEPARATISM! Living in *fragile* bubbles... has NEVER been recommended by anyone, that I'm aware of.

[cam18]

Imo it doesn't really benefit the X-Franchise to do that in a major way.....often times in other franchises said characters from personality, to powers are often butchered, co-opted or used to benefit other franchises....for example X-Men in the Avengers doesn't imo really benefit those characters nearly as much as it helps the Avengers which is otherwise a title and franchise that is pretty much an anything goes type of group without a truly focused narrative and lacks the fans die hard nature and devotion of the X-Franchise.....A character I think made worse from Avengers association is Wolverine.........was such a great character in the claremont era but overexposure and being thrown on every marvel team especially the Avengers completely ruined any type of grit and mystery this character once had....using x characters in other titles and franchises is often done to bring fans of the X-Men to other franchises and that imo that hasn't really been as successful as marvel might have had hoped when you remove characters from the very settings and characters that really helped to draw interest and move that character somewhere else often for inorganic reasons and its like trying to force a puzzle piece somewhere it will simply never really fit......jmo.
HM I will say one area where this can work is with characters with very limited ties or usage in the X franchise someone like scarlet witch took off in the avengers even though she had her brotherhood background...but I think with long standing x characters not only is it very tricky often times it makes the character worse.....loved Rogue but couldn't have cared less about Uncanny Avengers and didn't read it(the fact it lasted longer then Uncanny X-Force is a joke but that is topic for another day)

[Devaishwarya]

I don't buy every book in marvel so I don't need to see them in books where they are not the focus. Like Strange Academy is book I buy no mutants involved except for like a cameo from time to time. Different books have different focuses



If you want just regular human super heroes I don't see why you are reading X books. Mutants are not just a hero team. That X gene is a burden that they carry with them through all their lives not a costume that can just come on and off.

It's very odd that you want them to just act like they are like everyone else when the whole point of mutants is that they are not treated like everyone else because of their X gene

While that may be true of mutants as a race, it certainly isn't (wasn't) true of individual mutants, like Angel, Beast, Wolverine and Storm, who were/are highly respected among their hero peers.

The only downside to mutants being on other teams in other franchises was that the "hated and feared" aspect of being mutant never got properly addressed, though some did try. But that might not even be a downside simply because we got to see/read some characters being great heroes without the discrimination hammer hanging over their heads. At least in the earlies - later on, editorial and writers really didn't know what the hell they were doing or how to do it.

[Outburstz]

But they are just regular superheroes when they're on a team with other enhanced humans. We know the difference between Tigra and Wolfsbane is that one at the X-Gene, but there isn't much anything else that set them apart power wise. The Hulk has a heavier burden than most of the mutants and so does Spider-Man. Spider-Man is miserable because he feels morally obligated to use his gift to help people. Mutants don't exactly feel morally obliged to become superheroes. The Hulk's powers are a curse to him. Black Bolt can't speak and was forbidden to have children because of his powers.

There are many different reasons why Tigra and Wolfbane are different but you seem to be focusing on outward appearance. Mutants are not just hated for outward appearances it's a part but not all of the reasons.

Believing that her outward appearances is the only reason Wolfbane or other mutants are hated is a very shallow understanding of the plight of mutants. Mutants are viewed as the reason humans will go extinct, they are hated for religious reason, even medical reasons believing they shouldn't be a thing at all.

Banner is not hated for who he is he is hated for what he could do. Mutants are both

The X-Men are the mutant Avengers. They're the ones who chose to do something with their powers to help like the Avengers. I say it's monotone because they are too self contained and leaving their comfort zone gives them new stories they could grow from.

You are incorrectly making the assumption that just because they are in a X book that stories can't be diverse

And the mutant thing gets tossed out the window because it's hard to be singled out as a dangerous meta human when you're on a team with several of them. Wanda, Pietro, and Firestar's mutant status wasn't the most important thing in their stories when not in X-Men books.

Being dangerous is a part of mutant hatred but it is not all of it. There are many different reason in universe why mutants are hated. Some of which I said earlier

Now since you brought up Wanda let's go there. Wanda has and imo still is a perfect example of a trying to live a color blind existence. She has wanted nothing more then to just be viewed as a human. Which is why her inclusion in this mutant pride era is so laughable. When she lost her mutant status she wasn't upset about not being a mutant she was just happy not to be Magneto's daughter.

These other characters that you guys want in all these other books being a mutant is a very important part of their character. Not just because of their powers but because of their will to fight for their people against all odds.

But yet you want to ignore all that and just have them be generic super hero 3 fighting bad guy of the week #4

[Force de Phenix]

There are many different reasons why Tigra and Wolfbane are different but you seem to be focusing on outward appearance. Mutants are not just hated for outward appearances it's a part but not all of the reasons.

Believing that her outward appearances is the only reason Wolfbane or other mutants are hated is a very shallow understanding of the plight of mutants. Mutants are viewed as the reason humans will go extinct, they are hated for religious reason, even medical reasons believing they shouldn't be a thing at all.

That's why the "allegory" is flawed. The plight of mutants is just the same as the Hulk and Spider-Man. The only difference is that the mutants didn't get an origin story. From the outside there is zero reason people would see them differently. That's why the inhumans were treated like mutants. Because people didn't ask, "What type of super human are you? I have to make sure if I should discriminate you for this or for that."

I said that Wolfsbane and Tigra would be the same, but Tigra is stuck in her animal form. If Wolfsbane joined the Avengers, she wouldn't be discriminated by them because they're more or less the same, but meta humans, inhumans, eternals, etc. have more convoluted reasons to exist. You can take any Avenger with powers and call them a mutant tomorrow and it would fly.

You are incorrectly making the assumption that just because they are in a X book that stories can't be diverse

They aren't. They run around the same issue time and time again in circles.

[Outburstz]

That's why the "allegory" is flawed. The plight of mutants is just the same as the Hulk and Spider-Man. The only difference is that the mutants didn't get an origin story. From the outside there is zero reason people would see them differently. That's why the inhumans were treated like mutants. Because people didn't ask, "What type of super human are you? I have to make sure if I should discriminate you for this or for that."

ooooooooooof

If you really think that the plight of Hulk and Spiderman is the same as mutants then I don't know if I can help ya bro.

I said that Wolfsbane and Tigra would be the same, but Tigra is stuck in her animal form. If Wolfsbane joined the Avengers, she wouldn't be discriminated by them because they're more or less the same, but meta humans, inhumans, eternals, etc. have more convoluted reasons to exist. You can take any Avenger with powers and call them a mutant tomorrow and it would fly.

Being discriminated by the other heroes was never the issue it was the rest of society that was the issue. Also what is this notion that just because there are other super powered beings that people wouldn't discriminate vs 1 and not the others?

Do I really need to list examples of real life groups that don't look different from one another but were still oppressed. As I stated before and which you ignored Mutants are not just hated because they have powers or look different.

They aren't. They run around the same issue time and time again in circles.

and you would be incorrect. Just because they acknowledge the hated and fear of the mutants that other books ignore like it doesn't exist suddenly doesn't mean it's the same story

[Force de Phenix]

If you really think that the plight of Hulk and Spiderman is the same as mutants then I don't know if I can help ya bro.

Do I really need to list examples of real life groups that don't look different from one another but were still oppressed. As I stated before and which you ignored Mutants are not just hated because they have powers or look different.

This is why the mutant allegory is a bad one. You can't compare them to real life groups because real life groups already exist in the Marvel Universe. The only comparison you could do is between super humans and mutants. You aren't going to compare Hope Summers or Emma Frost to BIPOC, are you? If so, let's drop it.

What you don't understand is that people aren't going to stop and ask them who's a mutant and who isn't before they pass judgement. All of the mutates on the Avengers could be mutants. It's a tedious task to figure out who's who before they determine who's worthy of the discrimination/hate label.

That's why Krakoa having portals to segregate people is problematic.

[Outburstz]

This is why the mutant allegory is a bad one. You can't compare them to real life groups because real life groups already exist in the Marvel Universe. The only comparison you could do is between super humans and mutants. You aren't going to compare Hope Summers or Emma Frost to BIPOC, are you? If so, let's drop it.

You can easily compare them to the LGBT community. Are they not discriminated against even though you don't know who could be a part of that community?

That's why I said your view of mutants and super power beings is shallow cause you are only looking at appearances and that only tells part of the story of mutants and why you saying Hulk has the same burdens as mutants is crazy.

What you don't understand is that people aren't going to stop and ask them who's a mutant and who isn't before they pass judgement. All of the mutates on the Avengers could be mutants. It's a tedious task to figure out who's who before they determine who's worthy of the discrimination/hate label.

That's why Krakoa having portals to segregate people is problematic.

oh dear mutants having a place that they can be safe from persecution live rent free and enjoy their life yes sooooo problematic

[ARkadelphia]

The Avengers are Earth’s Mightiest Heroes. Unless you believe that no mutants qualify, then it’s natural that some should be part of Avengers lore.

[cam18]

The Avengers are Earth’s Mightiest Heroes. Unless you believe that no mutants qualify, then it’s natural that some should be part of Avengers lore.

Mutants qualify but it was always interesting to me that as much as Avengers was pushed as the title and the team to be on fan interest and devotion simply said something else......I guess I just don't view the Avengers as some promotion...and to be honest FF4 was probably the more respected in universe team then even the avengers in terms of prestige and respect.

[BroHomo]

Rent-free is right cuz the X-Men aren't brought up as much in Avengers threads.

Yeah, cause they're posting on the X-Boards lol

Oh, yes. Ewing's New Avengers was a treat for New Mutant's fans and Roberto was the best part of it.

Ehhhh I tried to get into this book, I really did. Sunspot was pretty damn fly in Hickman's Avengers but the White Roberto in New Avengers and U.S.Avengers meant those books were pretty much DOA for me :/

Well, it won't be the first time a writer functionally ignores the narrative of a group. Look at the X-Men now. What they were fighting for for the past 55 years was undermined and their efforts were failures. They basically adopted what their arch-villains preached all this time.

Oh which ones?

I will never understand this obsession with people wanting mutants outside of the X line or X books its so weird to me

lol bruh Right???

If you want just regular human super heroes I don't see why you are reading X books. Mutants are not just a hero team. That X gene is a burden that they carry with them through all their lives not a costume that can just come on and off.

It's very odd that you want them to just act like they are like everyone else when the whole point of mutants is that they are not treated like everyone else because of their X gene

lol Again ON Point.

^^^Reminds me of being stationed in Texas 25 years ago and getting flack from other Black Soldiers about hanging out w. White guys/gals and going to certain types of clubs and bars.
Of course, I’d also get flack from some ppl at those clubs and bars for being there.

I meeeean would you hang out with the Black soldiers at all?

You’re right in that the X-gene is a burden, but when I was growing up X-Men comics were about not being defined solely by that burden (man has THAT message changed).

You're right they no longer see it as a burden, or feel the need to try to act /look 'normal' like everyone else

The X-Men lived their best lives regardless and hung out w. who they liked, went where they wanted…
…like I said before segregation is silly; wether it’s forced on you or self imposed.

Errr but they seem to be still doing that. Why is it silly when they wanna just chill with other mutants. Like is it segregation when women wanna have a 'Girls night' or gays go to gay bars?

Mutants qualify but it was always interesting to me that as much as Avengers was pushed as the title and the team to be on fan interest and devotion simply said something else......

lol bruh same here. This x ∞