DCEU Superman thread/Henry Cavill is back as Superman

[Jeffrey2]

Remember when WB/DC were so overly concerned about confusing audiences with multiple versions of Batman out simultaneously? Yeah, apparently not a thing anymore...

Zaslov wants a shared universe. One DCEU. You can't have that w/o Batman being a part of that shared universe. He is the face of the DCEU. Remember it was Batman who founded the JL in Snyder's JL. It was Batman and Wonder Woman who were the leaders of the fledgling JL. Near the end of JL there is a scene with Bats and Wonder Woman looking for digs for the JL. The Hall of Justice?

Zaslov wants a JL film. You can't have a JL w/o Batman. Wonder Woman would be the default leader of the JL w/o a Batman but WBD realizes that w/o Batman a JL film would not reach its full potential. The plan seems to be a JL film lead by Batman and Wonder Woman. As to Affleck, he has been willing to do cameos. He is liked in the industry and at WBD. He is not a "problem" as is Cavill and is not known for demanding outrageous paychecks. Just a guess but I bet Zaslov/WBD are actively pursuing Affleck to reprise his role as Batman in the DCEU. Notice that Flash leaves room for Batfleck to return and the just released Shazam trailer has a shot of whom - Batfleck's Batman. It is being set up.

What next? Once the DC films head is in place expect big announcements. The overshadowing by Marvel of DC at SDCC was palpable. Feige announcing plans for phase 5 and part of phase 6. DC? More or less a whimper. WBD needs to rock the film world re: its DC franchises. I think one of the early announcements will be an expedited BA vs Shazam film. That will set fans on fire but much more so would an announcement of a Batman solo in the DCEU featuring Batfleck. That will bring down the roof.

What about the Reeves franchise? Not to worry. Batman and Spiderman are the only two superheroes who can sustain two full on separate franchises at the same time and have both of them do exceedingly well. John Campea hinted a while back that his sources say there will be two independent Batman franchises at DC films, and he wasn't talking about Michael Keaton's Batman.

Let's hope this is true and that WBD can turn things around and finally compete with Marvel.

[Vordan]

While we are still wondering if Superman is going to have a face or not, Batfleck is reprising his role for the 3rd time after having said repeatedly of being done for good: https://comicbook.com/movies/news/be...st-kingdom-dc/

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WB never wanted Affleck to leave, they wanted him to stick around and make his movie, he’s the one who wanted out. I’m sure if he’d agree to come back full time they’d let him. Funny that the guy who wanted out is the one who keeps coming back all the same.

Remember when WB/DC were so overly concerned about confusing audiences with multiple versions of Batman out simultaneously? Yeah, apparently not a thing anymore...

Well their shared universe is just limping along so they’re doing what the comics do: reboot and throw in Batman!

[Last Son of Krypton]

Remember when WB/DC were so overly concerned about confusing audiences with multiple versions of Batman out simultaneously? Yeah, apparently not a thing anymore...

They freak out about having Bruce on a tv show but now we have 3 different Bruces/Bats on the big screen....make it make sense WB!

Batmen: No Way Home starring Affleck, Pattinson, Bale, Keaton and Clooney coming soon... WB would want that.

WB never wanted Affleck to leave, they wanted him to stick around and make his movie, he’s the one who wanted out. I’m sure if he’d agree to come back full time they’d let him. Funny that the guy who wanted out is the one who keeps coming back all the same.

He seems to be ok to play BM as long as he doesn't need to spend more than 1 week on set. All the new things he filmed were really short for him. Keaton had 2 scenes in Aquaman 2, if he'll redo those, he'll be on set 1 or 2 days. And he's probably getting paid millions for that.

[Jeffrey2]

Batmen: No Way Home starring Affleck, Pattinson, Bale, Keaton and Clooney coming soon... WB would want that.



He seems to be ok to play BM as long as he doesn't need to spend more than 1 week on set. All the new things he filmed were really short for him. Keaton had 2 scenes in Aquaman 2, if he'll redo those, he'll be on set 1 or 2 days. And he's probably getting paid millions for that.

Batman brings home the bacon and is arguably the most popular superhero out there. Of course, WBD is going to exploit that and give us as much Batman as possible. With the Aquaman news it would not surprise me if Batfleck has a cameo in Batgirl.

The only caveat I have is that Affleck is off contract (presumably) and couldn't have filmed recent Aquaman reshoots. But then with Batfleck front and center in the Shazam trailer it seems as if WBD is setting up something big. The photo of Mamoa and Affleck on the WB lot was a strategic leak from WB - no way that was an accident. Why? Buidling up speculation about Batman in the DCEU and specifically Affleck. It's already got some folks wondering if WBD and Affleck have inked a deal for solo Bat films and the JL reboot? It's looking that way with WBD simply waiting for the new head of DC films to be named before making it official. Fans would go wild.

Contrast this to Superman. Seemingly no cameo in BA and no reference in the Shazam 2 trailer that features jl characters and especially Batman. Has WBD decided to continue with the pre-merger plan to erase Superman? It seems like they may have and they may be setting that up.

[Prime]

I really wish they lost the rights to the character.

[Last Son of Krypton]

The Rock included a sort of tease of his planned BA vs SM in Superpets of all place, lmao (spoilers): https://www.polygon.com/23282604/dc-...ene-black-adam

A tease of a tease before BA's release.

Batman brings home the bacon and is arguably the most popular superhero out there. Of course, WBD is going to exploit that and give us as much Batman as possible. With the Aquaman news it would not surprise me if Batfleck has a cameo in Batgirl.

The only caveat I have is that Affleck is off contract (presumably) and couldn't have filmed recent Aquaman reshoots. But then with Batfleck front and center in the Shazam trailer it seems as if WBD is setting up something big. The photo of Mamoa and Affleck on the WB lot was a strategic leak from WB - no way that was an accident. Why? Buidling up speculation about Batman in the DCEU and specifically Affleck. It's already got some folks wondering if WBD and Affleck have inked a deal for solo Bat films and the JL reboot? It's looking that way with WBD simply waiting for the new head of DC films to be named before making it official. Fans would go wild.

Contrast this to Superman. Seemingly no cameo in BA and no reference in the Shazam 2 trailer that features jl characters and especially Batman. Has WBD decided to continue with the pre-merger plan to erase Superman? It seems like they may have and they may be setting that up.

Dwayne Johnson teased that SM will cameo in BA to his millions of followers. They'll not cut it last minute.

[Vordan]

Yeah that got a good laugh out of me when I saw it in theaters.

[Mutant 77]

Live-Action Superman is doomed, nowadays.

They wanted to update and modernize the Christopher Reeve Superman, but both the Cavill version and the Routh version kinda failed. They were too bleak and weird. Plus, Cavill is too old for the part now.

People don't want a dark and bleak Superman. As simple as that. It's not Batman. You can't nolanize Superman. That's silly and pointless.

[JAK]

Live-Action Superman is doomed, nowadays.

They wanted to update and modernize the Christopher Reeve Superman, but both the Cavill version and the Routh version kinda failed. They were too bleak and weird.

People don't want a dark and bleak Superman. As simple as that. It's not Batman. You can't nolanize Superman. That's silly and pointless.

Agreed, at least in theaters. S&L is doing great, hopefully that continues.

Plus, Cavill is too old for the part now.

Is Affleck too old to play Batman? Because no one here has mentioned that yet.

[Prime]

Idk WB was run by idiots. I hope they clean house

[Jeffrey2]

WB didn't have confidence in Cavill from the get-go. Neither did Snyder it seems - the lack of dialogue by Cavill in all 3 films is telling. Certainly, in MOS and as the protagonist, Cavill should have been front and center but was not. MOS significantly underperformed and by that year's SDCC Snyder had Batfleck signed and ready to go. MOS had come out barely 2 months earlier so had the shift to Batman been decided upon even prior to the MOS release? Cavill's Supes run ended as underwhelming as it started with Cavill absent from 60% of JL. Even when his character was brough back to life he got few lines and not much focus. The takeaway scene towards the end was Batman and Wonder Woman scouting digs for a JL headquarters.

Snyder said that he consulted Nolan about killing Superman in BvS and Nolan was OK with it. Snyder said they had to find a way to get rid of Superman and joked about launching him into space. Immediately the DCEU which was supposed to be centered around Supes became Batman's world. Using Batman and WW to build the DCEU. There was public back and forth between Snyder and Cavill over BvS. Snyder saying it was effectively MOS2 (with presumably JL being effectively MOS3) while Cavill disagreed and said BvS was not MOS2. Snyder once said he'd only do another Superman solo if there was a story to tell. Bottom line, if Snyder had retained control of the DCEU there most likely would not have been more Superman films.

Snyder's departure didn't work to Cavill's advantage. The old regime didn't have confidence in the viability of Superman on film. Publicly saying so in court - ironically the man who said that (Alan Horn) has just been brought on board by Zaslov. The effort under Hamada to get Cavill to do cameos seems to have been a try at finishing up Cavill's contract. Cavill kept refusing cameos. Why not cast another actor to do cameos? That was a nagging question for me, but subsequent events may explain it. WB had already decided to not make more Superman films. Going after another actor for a few cameos was pointless. And so finally, when WB couldn't get Cavill to do cameos, they eliminated Superman from their film world. BTW, it's noteworthy that Affleck agreed to appear in Flash prior to the merger. At that point Affleck was seemingly done with Batman (as Cavill was with Superman) yet he worked with WB while Cavill refused a cameo in Flash. Where there is smoke there is fire and that adds to stories that Cavill is a pain to work with.

Although Zaslov hasn't gotten into deciding specifics around the WBD DCEU (waiting on the DC head to do that) recent events suggest he is making a push to get Batman back in the DCEU and to make Batman the center of the DCEU. Ironic as that was what Snyder was in the process of doing. Zaslov's bringing Horn into the fold is an indication too of a coming Bat push. Horn is a big Batman fan and is famously associated with being in charge at the time of the Nolan Batman. There isn't a doubt the Batfleck's Aquaman 2 leak came from the top at WB. It's part of Zaslov's push for Batman and specifically Batfleck. There are now rumors of new Flash footage having been shot in the past month. That makes sense if Batcfleck is going to get additional screen time in the Flash. It also makes marketing sense as Ezra's antics could hurt the film's box and more Batfleck is a way to counter that. Batfleck has a new suit in Flash which further suggests that WBD is bringing Batfleck back.

[Stanlos]

Live-Action Superman is doomed, nowadays.

They wanted to update and modernize the Christopher Reeve Superman, but both the Cavill version and the Routh version kinda failed. They were too bleak and weird. Plus, Cavill is too old for the part now.

People don't want a dark and bleak Superman. As simple as that. It's not Batman. You can't nolanize Superman. That's silly and pointless.

I think that what ruined those two other efforts is the approach. Both approaches suffered the same flaw--the impetus and the driver was NOT Superman the character or IP.

With Superman Returns, Bryan Singer was stuck on worshipping Richard Donner. EVERYTHING was driven by that for him. EVERY component suffered for that.

With MOS, you had a combined of wanting to duplicate Nolan to the point of Ctrl+V the Batman trilogy onto Supes and the poor decision to leave not only a writer notoriously mocking of superheroes but a director who didn't like Supes.

Those efforts were cocked up from the jump. Throw in that selfish GJ for extended universe and it is not surprising we're here.

I really hope that Warners, who in my estimation are trying use an old school formula on something much more complicated and requiring of more involved planning UPFRONT aside from some barebones investment risk brief, will appoint someone willing to make it about the characters in the future and look to their classic iconic catalogue and not the wack stu52 malarkey

[JAK]

WB didn't have confidence in Cavill from the get-go. Neither did Snyder it seems - the lack of dialogue by Cavill in all 3 films is telling.

It's deeper than that, imo. Brandon Routh didn't have much dialogue in SR, either. They didn't have confidence in the character beyond the IP, and if you don't know how to write a character, the "easy choice" is to make them the silent stoic type. That's not necessarily (at least initially) a Cavill problem.

Publicly saying so in court - ironically the man who said that (Alan Horn) has just been brought on board by Zaslov.

That's new info to me, so thanks for that. Definitely interesting.

BTW, it's noteworthy that Affleck agreed to appear in Flash prior to the merger. At that point Affleck was seemingly done with Batman (as Cavill was with Superman) yet he worked with WB while Cavill refused a cameo in Flash. Where there is smoke there is fire and that adds to stories that Cavill is a pain to work with.

The other read of this is WB trying to counter any sour "no Superman vs Black Adam" fans with a Snyderverse-related tease of their own to throw red meat to that base. Doesn't mean there isn't fire, I'm just saying it doesn't mean there is. Also, Affleck doesn't strike me as having a passion for Batman or wanting to see the character better represented (why would he, since Batman was treated decently well), so quick cameos for good money strike me as something he'd be down with if it's interesting.

Although Zaslov hasn't gotten into deciding specifics around the WBD DCEU (waiting on the DC head to do that) recent events suggest he is making a push to get Batman back in the DCEU and to make Batman the center of the DCEU. Ironic as that was what Snyder was in the process of doing. Zaslov's bringing Horn into the fold is an indication too of a coming Bat push. Horn is a big Batman fan and is famously associated with being in charge at the time of the Nolan Batman. There isn't a doubt the Batfleck's Aquaman 2 leak came from the top at WB. It's part of Zaslov's push for Batman and specifically Batfleck. There are now rumors of new Flash footage having been shot in the past month. That makes sense if Batcfleck is going to get additional screen time in the Flash. It also makes marketing sense as Ezra's antics could hurt the film's box and more Batfleck is a way to counter that. Batfleck has a new suit in Flash which further suggests that WBD is bringing Batfleck back.

This could be - though initially they were talking about Keaton's Batman being the Nick Fury of DC, so I wonder how that will all go. And yeah, any reshoots on The Flash at this point are likely ways for WBD to "fix" their "Ezra Miller problem."

That said... Batman may be more commercially viable for WBD, but if they keep hiring Batman fanboys for their team, they're going to keep having long-term problems with characters like Superman, no matter who's playing him.

I think that what ruined those two other efforts is the approach. Both approaches suffered the same flaw--the impetus and the driver was NOT Superman the character or IP.

Yep, I'd agree with that.

With Superman Returns, Bryan Singer was stuck on worshipping Richard Donner. EVERYTHING was driven by that for him. EVERY component suffered for that.

Kinda? To me, it's more like looking at something and being in love with it, but not having the first clue what you're looking at. That's Bryan Singer, to me. I'm still of the opinion that making a straight-up Donner sequel and it being popular is, technically, completely possible. They just botched it. I'm not saying that's what we *should* get, just that it could be done.

With MOS, you had a combined of wanting to duplicate Nolan to the point of Ctrl+V the Batman trilogy onto Supes and the poor decision to leave not only a writer notoriously mocking of superheroes but a director who didn't like Supes.

Absolutely.

Those efforts were cocked up from the jump. Throw in that selfish GJ for extended universe and it is not surprising we're here.

I really hope that Warners, who in my estimation are trying use an old school formula on something much more complicated and requiring of more involved planning UPFRONT aside from some barebones investment risk brief, will appoint someone willing to make it about the characters in the future and look to their classic iconic catalogue and not the wack stu52 malarkey

Yeah, for a looooong time, WB has been a company that did more chasing of trends than making them. MoS felt like a movie that would have performed better back when the first X-Men movie came out. And if that's how far back their thinking had been, that's a serious issue. Only Nintendo can sell hardware from a few generations back and find a way to make it compelling to people, lol (I love my Nintendo Swtich, btw) - I'm hoping the new crew turns a corner for the company, as well.

[Jeffrey2]

That's new info to me, so thanks for that. Definitely interesting.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...re-1235188546/

Horn is widely respected in Hollywood. He is a Batman fanatic and much of his success was around facilitating the Nolan films. Zaslov/WBD want to use Batman as the face of the DCEU and what better person to have help shepherd that than Horn. Zaslov wants the JL rebooted/rebuilt and arguably the only characters that must be in a rebooted JL are Batman and secondarily Wonder Woman. Watch for a Batfleck Returns to be announced for XMAS 2024.

I think the way they are reintroducing Batman is a good sign. Zaslov pivots quickly and likely realized how ridiculous it was to remove Batman, easily their most lucrative DC franchise, from the DCEU. He didn't wait for the new DC head before making that call. The sudden focus on Batman worries some but not me. I doubt Affleck wants to do a solo Batman every 3 years. It'd take too much time away from JLO plus he has many other projects going. Word is in agreeing to do the Flash scenes he got the script changed to leave open the possibility for him to return. So the ending, as far as Bats goes, was vague. I think the recent shooting of new scenes is to make the ending clear that Batman is around and kicking butt in the DCEU. My guess is that Affleck has already signed to do the solo he'd been working on and the reimaged JL film Zaslov has in store. Beyond that I see him as the heart and soul of the DCEU making guest appearances across all the DCEU franchises but not making solo after solo Batman films so I'm not concerned that Batman will overwhelm the DCEU.

The old regime wasn't adept at course correcting as Zaslov seems to be. After the financial and critical disappointment of BvS, WB should have called a time out. JL still wasn't in production. It was the height of folly to move forward after Snyder's first 2 films "failed". If WB had started from scratch at that point including dumping Snyder things would possibly be a lot further along today. No way Zaslov would have allowed JL to go into production. It was Zaslov himself who axed CNN Plus (or whatever it was called) a few days after it debuted and after tens of millions had been spent to bring it online. Zaslov does not screw around as Hamada and the rest of the old regime did.

[Last Son of Krypton]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...re-1235188546/

Horn is widely respected in Hollywood. He is a Batman fanatic and much of his success was around facilitating the Nolan films. Zaslov/WBD want to use Batman as the face of the DCEU and what better person to have help shepherd that than Horn. Zaslov wants the JL rebooted/rebuilt and arguably the only characters that must be in a rebooted JL are Batman and secondarily Wonder Woman. Watch for a Batfleck Returns to be announced for XMAS 2024.

I think the way they are reintroducing Batman is a good sign. Zaslov pivots quickly and likely realized how ridiculous it was to remove Batman, easily their most lucrative DC franchise, from the DCEU. He didn't wait for the new DC head before making that call. The sudden focus on Batman worries some but not me. I doubt Affleck wants to do a solo Batman every 3 years. It'd take too much time away from JLO plus he has many other projects going. Word is in agreeing to do the Flash scenes he got the script changed to leave open the possibility for him to return. So the ending, as far as Bats goes, was vague. I think the recent shooting of new scenes is to make the ending clear that Batman is around and kicking butt in the DCEU. My guess is that Affleck has already signed to do the solo he'd been working on and the reimaged JL film Zaslov has in store. Beyond that I see him as the heart and soul of the DCEU making guest appearances across all the DCEU franchises but not making solo after solo Batman films so I'm not concerned that Batman will overwhelm the DCEU.

The old regime wasn't adept at course correcting as Zaslov seems to be. After the financial and critical disappointment of BvS, WB should have called a time out. JL still wasn't in production. It was the height of folly to move forward after Snyder's first 2 films "failed". If WB had started from scratch at that point including dumping Snyder things would possibly be a lot further along today. No way Zaslov would have allowed JL to go into production. It was Zaslov himself who axed CNN Plus (or whatever it was called) a few days after it debuted and after tens of millions had been spent to bring it online. Zaslov does not screw around as Hamada and the rest of the old regime did.

They never removed Batman, WB just picked another actor (Keaton) to play BM because Affleck wasn't committed to the role.