Gotham City: Year One by Tom King and Phil Hester

[KC]

Fun idea...but Tom King as the writer makes this a massive pass for me.

[HsssH]

Oh it was his son! That's the part I got confused

Catwoman slept with Slam and his son. It was weird thing that should be forgotten.

[Frontier]

Catwoman slept with Slam and his son. It was weird thing that should be forgotten.

And I think her daughter was supposed to be Slam Jr.'s...it was a weird time.

[millernumber1]

I'm very excited about this book, though since King has said this book is very much like the film Chinatown, I think it's best to go into the book assuming Helen is super, super dead.

[millernumber1]

A good chance both of the fictional kidnappings are a reference to the infamous 1932 Lindbergh baby kidnapping. I'd certainly bet King is referring to that.

I wouldn't necessarily mind some radical things as long as it's kinda like Bat/Cat and DC doesn't have to use any of it as canon. I'm more tolerant these days of allowing things to be thrown at the wall as long as they all don't have to stick. Three Jokers has been another instance of that, as Johns even said.

Well, if it's referencing the Lindberg baby, as well as Chinatown, I am now a million percent convinced that Helen Wayne is deader than dead.

I'm curious how much something in the past really matters? Gates of Gotham, even with the Architect as a semi-ongoing villain (though I'm pretty sure he disappeared once Higgins left DC as an ongoing writer) didn't really matter, and I don't think even Morrison's past work in Return of Bruce Wayne seems to have made much of a difference to writers.

In other words, I think this is definitely going to be canon, but I have a difficult time seeing how it's going to matter. It's not like the introduction of Ghost-Maker, which interestingly didn't HAVE to matter, but Josh Williamson and Chip Zdarsky both decided DID matter, so he's become a much bigger (and even more interesting, in my view) addition to Batman's past and present.

I'm in the same camp I'd say. And I'm definitely interested in this series, I've always been rather indifferent to Slam Bradley, so this series could change that maybe.

I just hope they don't have Slam doing something like Human Target did to Guy...if King can keep from going that far, I think it'll be awesome.

[JBatmanFan05]

Well, if it's referencing the Lindberg baby, as well as Chinatown, I am now a million percent convinced that Helen Wayne is deader than dead.

Yeah, I'd definitely lean toward guessing that. And not only because of the Lindbergh case, but also because of the lack of mention of this Helen Wayne in prior King or DC comics (as far as I'm aware). Also, we all know King is known some for being a darkier gloomier writer.

However, however, King might seek to subvert expectations and have her live somehow, so, there's always that. Writers love to subvert too. But to counter that, many don't know anything about the Lindbergh kidnapping case (and many haven't seen the new Perry Mason), so what the majority of readers' expectations are are rather debatable.

In other words, I think this is definitely going to be canon, but I have a difficult time seeing how it's going to matter.

Yeah. All I can say is that once it's done, I will have a far clearer idea of much I hope it matters or not, lol. I've liked most of Morrison's Return of Bruce Wayne Wayne backstory, and so we'll see if we see King mention any of those names or use any of those characterizations or anything. Same as far as Snyder. King seems to openly like Morrison and Snyder, so it will be especially interesting some in that specific respect (is he gonna go out of his way to show any respect in some way to that Morrison/Snyder Wayne history material? Court of Owls nods?).

[millernumber1]

Yeah, I'd definitely lean toward guessing that. And not only because of the Lindbergh case, but also because of the lack of mention of this Helen Wayne in prior King or DC comics (as far as I'm aware). Also, we all know King is known some for being a darkier gloomier writer.

However, however, King might seek to subvert expectations and have her live somehow, so, there's always that. Writers love to subvert too. But to counter that, many don't know anything about the Lindbergh kidnapping case (and many haven't seen the new Perry Mason), so what the majority of readers' expectations are are rather debatable.

Yeah. All i can say is that once it's done, I will have a far clearer idea of much I hope it matters or not, lol. I've liked most of Morrison's Return of Bruce Wayne Wayne backstory, and so we'll see if we see King mention any of those names or use any of those characterizations or anything. Same as far as Snyder. King seems to openly like Morrison and Snyder, so it will be especially interesting some in that specific respect (is he gonna go out of his way to show any respect to that Morrison/Snyder material?).

Yeah, I mean, it COULD be a Ghostmaker type of thing, where DC just goes all in on inserting Helen everywhere...but I doubt it. Ghostmaker is also the result of James Tynion, who is well known for being very collaborative, and working hard to connect with other writers. King, though he does have some collaborations he's known for (mostly Grayson), has said many times he doesn't like telling other writers what to do (aka he doesn't play well with others), so I kinda doubt a civilian character would manage to catch on. Maybe The Help from Killing Time will...but I kinda doubt it.

My personal bet is that King's subverted expectations on "not killing the kid" were used up with Superman: Up in the Sky - he tends to write a very optimistic Superman in the face of great pain, whereas he tends to have a much more downbeat (though I still argue not nihilistic) view of Batman. But setting up why Gotham City sucks so much, so the need for Batman is made super clear? Yeah, Helen is dead.

I'll be very curious to see if he references any of those other past stories for sure. The "Year One" designation is a bit odd, given we know Gotham is a very old city, and this isn't going back that far.

Speaking of The Help, I would be surprised if King doesn't set him up in this series, given how old he wrote him in Killing Time.

[HsssH]

I didn't get the impression that Morrison wanted Return of Bruce Wayne to "matter" in a sense that other writers would later reference it and/or use characters from those issues. They served their purpose in giving background information for Hurt, Barbatos, "magic box" thing and all of that was wrapped up in the last issue (Batman and Robin too).

[JBatmanFan05]

I didn't get the impression that Morrison wanted Return of Bruce Wayne to "matter" in a sense that other writers would later reference it and/or use characters from those issues. They served their purpose in giving background information for Hurt, Barbatos, "magic box" thing and all of that was wrapped up in the last issue (Batman and Robin too).

I agree that I doubt Morrison was trying to like revolutionize Wayne/Gotham history, like force others to use his stuff. But, at the same time, Morrison or Snyder all know that they are writing within a larger overall mainstream Batman continuity. Morrison especially knows that since he meant to undertake the challenge of making a cohesive narrative of all of Batman's wacky disparate Pre and Post Crisis history.

I imagine King can probably sidestep most or all of Morrison or Snyder's contributions to Wayne/Gotham history, and maybe he'll do that thinking that the most respectful thing to do, or maybe he'll find it more respectful to reference some of it. We'll see I suppose.

[HsssH]

As I understand this will be set something like 30-40 years before Return of Bruce Wayne #5? So King has enough space to ignore everything Morrison without really contradicting anything. Not sure about Snyder since I haven't read much of his run.

[JBatmanFan05]

As I understand this will be set something like 30-40 years before Return of Bruce Wayne #5? So King has enough space to ignore everything Morrison without really contradicting anything. Not sure about Snyder since I haven't read much of his run.

You're probably mostly correct, though I think King, given the stated timeframe, will at least run into Bruce's grandfather Patrick Wayne, whose portrait was in Morrison's run. And I think there has been some details added over the years about his life. Morrison sorta started the ironing out, so to speak, of Bruce's ancestors.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/patri...e/4005-117754/

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Patrick_Wayne_(Prime_Earth)

[Hypo]

https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...11123016105985

[Frontier]

Gonna go as hard noir as possible .

[TheJudge95]

I don't want to potentially spoil the series for anyone, but if the connections to the Lindbergh case are real, then it's possible that spoilers:

the Wayne patriarch is involved in the kidnapping

end of spoilers since that was one of the theories surrounding Charles Lindbergh. I think King is an iconoclastic enough writer to not have any qualms about besmirching the Wayne name. Chinatown also had its own share of screwed-up familial relationships and skeletons in the closet.

[bat39]

Hadn't really been following the DC stuff from SDCC this year so kinda missed this.

On the surface, I must say I'm here for this! A noir story set in pre-Batman Gotham is an intriguing proposition...especially since this isn't like an ''immediate prequel'' (as in around the time of the Thomas and Martha Wayne murders or just before Bruce put on the cowl) but distant enough that we aren't going to be distracted by younger iterations of familiar characters - though there will be some familiar families and dynasties of course. Plus, Slam Bradely, a character I haven't particularly followed much, but who is a key part of early DC Comics history and as such is the perfect protagonist for a story set in the pre-history of Batman.

I know that comic-book time makes this irrelevant but I'm curious to know, broadly speaking, when this is set? Two generations before Bruce becomes Batman means that this is Bruce's grandparents' generation we're talking about. In which case, the infant Helen is more likely to be Thomas' sister or cousin than his mother. But going by the floating timeline, Bruce became Batman maybe around 20 years ago, and I guess two generations before that would be anywhere between 50 to 60 years before that - so from a 2022 perspective I guess we're talking the early 1940's to 1950's. Truly the peak of noir (and an era that makes Alan Scott, Ted Grant or Dinah Drake showing up a possibility if they want to go that way).

I thought Gotham City became "a hell hole" in part because of the deaths of Thomas and Martha?

Yeah, that was the original understanding (by original I mean dating back to the early 70's and ''No Hope in Crime Alley''). Though I think the general consensus in the comics for the last 30-odd years, and various adaptations, is that Gotham was already messed up - the Wayne murders just accelerated the process by getting rid of the two people trying to fix things. And then when you consider something like the Court of Owls, then obviously you know that the rot goes back much further.

I mean the very fact that the Falcones and Maronis were active in Thomas' time shows that it wasn't all hunky-dory before he was killed.