Wonder Woman's Weaknesses

[BiteTheBullet]

No she wasn't

That's true

It wasn't

Yes, her being able to fly under her own power was definitely a good addition to her powerset. You won't find many on this board that would disagree with this!

[John Venus]

Folks, didn't take the hint.

Of course.

Yes, her being able to fly under her own power was definitely a good addition to her powerset. You won't find many on this board that would disagree with this!

Hear, hear.

Based on topic, WW's weaknesses should be:

-loud chewing.

-aloe vera based ointments

-Sandalwood scents

- spicy foods

[bardkeep]

Her weaknesses are bad writing, editors who won't let her kiss girls, romcoms, and apparently fans arguing over minute details of her powers that should never be of great narrative importance anyway (thus we loop back around to "bad writing").

This isn't a situation where the ideological foundations of the character are shaken. Power scaling is a thing for EVERY character, and from her conception she was meant to be one of the strongest characters in the biz so it makes sense to scale her accordingly. Making her bulletproof is a narrative safeguard to keep writers from making a rando with a lucky shot a big threat (which I'd argue is lazy/uncreative) when she's really powerful and has a huge rogues gallery full of gods, magic users, mad scientists, etc. to draw on. If someone disagrees, that's TOTALLY chill and fine, but it's definitely not fair to compare making her physical durability consistent to twisting her lore from a deeply affecting feminist parable to something actively anti-woman (i.e. n52).

For what it's worth, I consider flight a must because it's a more exciting power fantasy than a plane and appeases my silly monkey brain, but otherwise I say no rules. Silver Age Wild West logic where she's stupidly OP and pulls powers out of her ass because it makes for a fun story. WW84 was really bad but Patty Jenkins knew what was up when she gave her the nonsense power to turn things invisible because it made for one cool shot.

[Koriand'r]

I came in here shocked and wondering when I started a thread. Thanks Gaelforce for making this instead of deleting my comments.

[WonderScott]

Things that could harm and slow down Diana:
- magic (generally - it depends on the strength and type, e.g. are we talking Jinx or Circe level magicks?)
- magic-imbued weaponry (it depends on the strength and type, e.g. Eros’s “love guns”)
- highly-powered blunt or piercing traumas (trading hits with other powerful beings; having things thrown at her at great force; Cheetah’s combo of strength, resilience and endurance in using her claws, etc.)
- tremendously powerful waves of electricity and other energies (some lasers, Green Lantern rings etc.)
- tremendously powerful telepathy and other psionic powers
- tremendously powerful sonic and optic attacks
- tremendously powerful heat- and cold-based attacks
- tremendously powerful explosions
- some types of super abilities (e.g Mister Mxyzptlk, divine and divinely-empowered beings, Phobia, etc.)
- lack of oxygen (at some point)
- temporal abilities
- fundamental forces (gravitational, electromagnetic, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear forces - and possibly quintessence [dark matter, dark energy])

I won’t say that any of these alone will necessarily stop or kill Diana outright, there’s too much nuance to play with to say that and her state of being when affected by any of these things. I’ll just say that these can affect her and I’ll also say these things can also affect Superman or SuperClark or Superwhoever.

Superman is generally more invulnerable to me than Diana is, but I’d still rank her nearly as high when you factor in kryptonite and red solar energy.

I’m okay with Diana being able to more or less shake off different types of mundane knives, edged weapons, bullets, arrows, etc. (I mean, bullets bounce off Atlanteans now when Johns rebirthed the Aqua cast), but I also think her Wonder reflexes, speed and agility come into play where it can be very hard (but not impossible) for those item to “hit” her. Some of it’s personality and spirit too… I prefer a Wonder Woman who thinks it’s fun to do bullets and bracelets, because it’s a skill of hers. And an impressive one that the right people and adversaries should be intimidated by. I mean, imagine shooting at someone and they have the strength, skill, agility, poise and sassiness to redirect multiple bullets ricocheted from their bracelets to land inches in front of your feet or whiz by your ears, all the while she’s smiling at you with a look that says, “Do you really want to continue or would you rather talk this out?” Diana’s powers are unnerving and awe-inspiring and frightening (when directed at you.) I think we tend to forget that because we’re used to them and think of them transactionally when taking about them in contrast to other characters and abilities.

[Perseus]

Things that could harm and slow down Diana:
- magic (generally - it depends on the strength and type, e.g. are we talking Jinx or Circe level magicks?)
- magic-imbued weaponry (it depends on the strength and type, e.g. Eros’s “love guns”)
- highly-powered blunt or piercing traumas (trading hits with other powerful beings; having things thrown at her at great force; Cheetah’s combo of strength, resilience and endurance in using her claws, etc.)
- tremendously powerful waves of electricity and other energies (some lasers, Green Lantern rings etc.)
- tremendously powerful telepathy and other psionic powers
- tremendously powerful sonic and optic attacks
- tremendously powerful heat- and cold-based attacks
- tremendously powerful explosions
- some types of super abilities (e.g Mister Mxyzptlk, divine and divinely-empowered beings, Phobia, etc.)
- lack of oxygen (at some point)
- temporal abilities
- fundamental forces (gravitational, electromagnetic, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear forces - and possibly quintessence [dark matter, dark energy])

I won’t that any of these alone will necessarily stop or kill Diana outright, there’s to much nuance to play with to say that and her state of being when affected by any of these things. I’ll just say that these can affect her and I’ll also say these things can also affect Superman or SuperClark or Superwhoever.

Superman is generally more invulnerable to me than Diana is, but I’d still rank her nearly as high when you factor in kryptonite and red solar energy.

I’m okay with Diana being able to more or less shake off different types of mundane knives, edged weapons, bullets, arrows, etc. (I mean, bullets bounce off Atlanteans now when Johns rebirthed the Aqua cast), but I also think her Wonder reflexes, speed and agility come into play where it can be very hard (but not impossible) for those item to “hit” her. Some of it’s personality and spirit too… I prefer a Wonder Woman who thinks it’s fun to do bullets and bracelets, because it’s a skill of hers. And an impressive one that the right people and adversaries should be intimidated by. I mean, imagine shooting at someone and they have the strength, skill, agility, poise and sassiness to redirect multiple bullets ricocheted from their bracelets to land inches in front of your feet or whiz by your ears, all the while she’s smiling at you with a look that says, “Do you really want to continue or would you rather talk this out?” Diana’s powers are unnerving and awe-inspiring and frightening (when directed at you.) I think we tend to forget that because we’re used to them and think of them transactionally when taking about them in contrast to other characters and abilities.

I would disagree with time manipulation, heat and cold, and lack of oxygen. But that's me.

[WonderScott]

I would disagree with time manipulation, heat and cold, and lack of oxygen. But that's me.

That’s cool. It’s good to be you too.

[bardkeep]

Diana’s powers are unnerving and awe-inspiring and frightening (when directed at you.) I think we tend to forget that because we’re used to them and think of them transactionally when taking about them in contrast to other characters and abilities.

This reminds me of why Gail Simone's take on Diana's powers is one of my faves. She's out there easily subduing Kryptonians and shrugging off nukes, but the scariest thing about her BY FAR is the lasso. Forcing someone to face the objective truth about themselves is scary as hell. Of course, that power doesn't sound like a show-stopper in a comic booky "who would win" scenario where people take things so literally, but really if anyone gets bound in the lasso it should be over for them.

Joe Kelly's Golden Perfect story also did something so cool with it by making it the embodiment of the whole concept of truth and Diana its guardian. I loved the idea that if something happens to the lasso, it's because of something intrinsic within Diana rather than something external, and the idea that an issue with the lasso makes truth itself get confused. It feels VERY much like something out of myth - wish we got more WW stories on that scale, with that sort of esoteric myth logic.

So to get back to the thread topic, IMO the lasso's weaknesses absolutely shouldn't be physical. If it's ineffective, it should be because the person bound with it is either fundamentally truthful and at peace with themselves or too evil to care. If it breaks, it should be because of something like a paradox or Diana refusing to accept a truth. Makes it way more interesting, and in general I wish writers would remember that she can visit different astral planes and generally interacts with the universe in a way that other characters don't. The contrast of her as a magical, mythical being navigating the mundane is part of what makes her interesting.

[BiteTheBullet]

This reminds me of why Gail Simone's take on Diana's powers is one of my faves. She's out there easily subduing Kryptonians and shrugging off nukes, but the scariest thing about her BY FAR is the lasso. Forcing someone to face the objective truth about themselves is scary as hell. Of course, that power doesn't sound like a show-stopper in a comic booky "who would win" scenario where people take things so literally, but really if anyone gets bound in the lasso it should be over for them.

Joe Kelly's Golden Perfect story also did something so cool with it by making it the embodiment of the whole concept of truth and Diana its guardian. I loved the idea that if something happens to the lasso, it's because of something intrinsic within Diana rather than something external, and the idea that an issue with the lasso makes truth itself get confused. It feels VERY much like something out of myth - wish we got more WW stories on that scale, with that sort of esoteric myth logic.

So to get back to the thread topic, IMO the lasso's weaknesses absolutely shouldn't be physical. If it's ineffective, it should be because the person bound with it is either fundamentally truthful and at peace with themselves or too evil to care. If it breaks, it should be because of something like a paradox or Diana refusing to accept a truth. Makes it way more interesting, and in general I wish writers would remember that she can visit different astral planes and generally interacts with the universe in a way that other characters don't. The contrast of her as a magical, mythical being navigating the mundane is part of what makes her interesting.

I wasn't a fan of the Golden Perfect story. I had issues with him and I think it was Doug Mahnke on art trying to follow the story. Those two seemed conjoined at the hip during that time where he was the writer and him the artist. Joe Kelly did the Elite 12 issue series and he nerfed Diana's lasso when she put it on Manchesters Black sister (was Vera her name?) and I immediately knew what the copout would be. She lied under the lasso because Diana had it on her prosthetic arms. I saw that one coming a mile away. Just a side rant on Kelly/Mahnke and his use of the lasso with Diana.

To be honest, I think too many writers don't like Diana's lasso of truth because it makes it game over in so many situations, at least to the writers thinking. So when she doesn't use it as fans may comment on their twitter feeds or message boards, all they can say is they forgot, or something like that.

[Alpha]

I loved the Golden Perfect story arc and I agree that the most awesome part about it was the idea that the lasso is like an infinity stone, the fundamental embodiment of cosmic aspect of reality itself. But unlike Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet, or Thor with Mjolnir, the lasso doesn't protect Diana, she protects the Lasso, since she's the only one trustworthy enough to keep it safe from the universe wherever she goes.

That said, I actually don't think the lasso's power should ever be circumvented. It will always do it's thing. The only problem is that the nature of the universe can be changed, so the truth the lasso reveals will be whatever is true at the time beyond all illusions of the soul

[Koriand'r]

This reminds me of why Gail Simone's take on Diana's powers is one of my faves. She's out there easily subduing Kryptonians and shrugging off nukes, but the scariest thing about her BY FAR is the lasso. Forcing someone to face the objective truth about themselves is scary as hell. Of course, that power doesn't sound like a show-stopper in a comic booky "who would win" scenario where people take things so literally, but really if anyone gets bound in the lasso it should be over for them.

Joe Kelly's Golden Perfect story also did something so cool with it by making it the embodiment of the whole concept of truth and Diana its guardian. I loved the idea that if something happens to the lasso, it's because of something intrinsic within Diana rather than something external, and the idea that an issue with the lasso makes truth itself get confused. It feels VERY much like something out of myth - wish we got more WW stories on that scale, with that sort of esoteric myth logic.

So to get back to the thread topic, IMO the lasso's weaknesses absolutely shouldn't be physical. If it's ineffective, it should be because the person bound with it is either fundamentally truthful and at peace with themselves or too evil to care. If it breaks, it should be because of something like a paradox or Diana refusing to accept a truth. Makes it way more interesting, and in general I wish writers would remember that she can visit different astral planes and generally interacts with the universe in a way that other characters don't. The contrast of her as a magical, mythical being navigating the mundane is part of what makes her interesting.

Nevermind, I'm derailing my own thread and I don't want to die on this hill today...

[WonderScott]

This reminds me of why Gail Simone's take on Diana's powers is one of my faves. She's out there easily subduing Kryptonians and shrugging off nukes, but the scariest thing about her BY FAR is the lasso. Forcing someone to face the objective truth about themselves is scary as hell. Of course, that power doesn't sound like a show-stopper in a comic booky "who would win" scenario where people take things so literally, but really if anyone gets bound in the lasso it should be over for them.

Joe Kelly's Golden Perfect story also did something so cool with it by making it the embodiment of the whole concept of truth and Diana its guardian. I loved the idea that if something happens to the lasso, it's because of something intrinsic within Diana rather than something external, and the idea that an issue with the lasso makes truth itself get confused. It feels VERY much like something out of myth - wish we got more WW stories on that scale, with that sort of esoteric myth logic.

So to get back to the thread topic, IMO the lasso's weaknesses absolutely shouldn't be physical. If it's ineffective, it should be because the person bound with it is either fundamentally truthful and at peace with themselves or too evil to care. If it breaks, it should be because of something like a paradox or Diana refusing to accept a truth. Makes it way more interesting, and in general I wish writers would remember that she can visit different astral planes and generally interacts with the universe in a way that other characters don't. The contrast of her as a magical, mythical being navigating the mundane is part of what makes her interesting.

That aspect of the lasso that Simone introduced is amazing and adds a lot to stories. You can certainly achieve a lot psychological aspects to stories when Diana can experience the POV of a character.

[WonderScott]

In terms of the lasso, I still think of it as physically indestructible, incredibly pliable and that only a god can untie it once snared/lassoed in it. (I believe that last bit was a Perez thing.)

It’s weaknesses lie within in Diana. If she’s being manipulated or experiencing doubts, it may not function as well. Same if she’s encountering someone with an incredible will or lack of self-awareness. The psychological aspects may be harder for Diana to understand.

It’s a powerful tool on the vast majority of characters, but I don’t see it as an absolute on everyone (except not being able to physically break it.)