Thoughts on Claremont’s take on Jean and Logan?

[Mercury]

In a recent interview with Near Mint Condition published a few days ago, Claremont stated:

She passionately loves Scott, he passionately loves [Mariko], but [in] 150 years at the absolute max, both...Mariko and Scott are dead...Logan and Jean go on forever. They are core elements in the nature of the omniverse.”

Clip of quote above: https://mobile.twitter.com/Jean_RED_...00959035412482

Full interview:

[Sin Nick]

Am I missing something, but... since when is Jean able to live as long as Logan? She no longer possesses the Phoenix Force and this new Krakoa era that everybody loves so much confirmed that Logan is able to live for a few thousand years with barely any gray in his hair.

[Mercury]

Am I missing something, but... since when is Jean able to live as long as Logan? She no longer possesses the Phoenix Force and this new Krakoa era that everybody loves so much confirmed that Logan is able to live for a few thousand years with barely any gray in his hair.

In Claremont’s eyes, Jean IS Phoenix, and he refuses to consider any other take valid. This was his take in Uncanny X-Men #140.5 (2021)—the official prequel to Days of the Future Past—which was published by Marvel as part of the Claremont Marvel Paragon Collection:

[Sin Nick]

I'm not really verse on Phoenix matters. but don't they have the ability to resurrect? Ok, so if Jean is the Phoenix... why don't she just resurrect Cyclops when he dies or keep him alive along with her if she loves him so much? Also, Claremont is wrong on Logan/Jean because Logan isn't immortal and so Phoenix Jean will outlive him.

[Rift]

I always found Jean/Logan lame tbh. Not sure why.

[Devaishwarya]

Since you asked...as with all things Claremont - Enh! Whatever. My apathy is endless.

[jwatson]

In a recent interview with Near Mint Condition published a few days ago, Claremont stated:



Clip of quote above: https://mobile.twitter.com/Jean_RED_...00959035412482

Full interview:

This just gave me the hilarious(to me) image of Scott willing himself out the waiting room like "not today" lol

[Mercury]

I'm not really verse on Phoenix matters. but don't they have the ability to resurrect? Ok, so if Jean is the Phoenix... why don't she just resurrect Cyclops when he dies or keep him alive along with her if she loves him so much? Also, Claremont is wrong on Logan/Jean because Logan isn't immortal and so Phoenix Jean will outlive him.

You make a good point. I think Claremont just likes them together. In a way, Jean and Logan are opposites, yet in another way, they’re similar, i.e., they’ve both endured and survived trauma from a young age, are loners at heart, extremely selfless and courageous, and passionate.

I always found Jean/Logan lame tbh. Not sure why.

Nah, not me. I’ve always found myself allured by their pairing, but I’m happy with where Jean and Scott are now.

Since you asked...as with all things Claremont - Enh! Whatever. My apathy is endless.

Oh, D, 🤣. I can almost picture you rolling your eyes and curling your lips in disgust, and I don’t even know what you look like!

This just gave me the hilarious(to me) image of Scott willing himself out the waiting room like "not today" lol

Oh hell no. 😂

[gurkle]

It's a bit pointless talking about which characters will live forever because we all know, even if they don't, that they will all be young forever and none of them can die. They're all immortal no matter which ones you choose to portray as immortal. So he's talking in theory about something that will never happen except in alternate-universe comics.

I don't think Claremont has ever been able to really convincingly portray why he thinks the Jean/Logan pairing is a plausible one. But to be fair, he never really had a chance to make the case in his original run. I don't know the timeline exactly, but it feels to me like Jean was already dead by the time he started really pushing the idea that she and Wolverine could be a thing. Or at least when she was alive, Wolverine was pretty clearly not going to win against Scott.

[Gray Lensman]

In Claremont’s eyes, Jean IS Phoenix, and he refuses to consider any other take valid. This was his take in Uncanny X-Men #140.5 (2021)—the official prequel to Days of the Future Past—which was published by Marvel as part of the Claremont Marvel Paragon Collection:

I always thought that was a dumb take, given what has happened since. Or, am I to believe that when Cyclops kills Xavier at the end of AvX, it's because he was possessed by Jean? Maybe she wanted to finally tell him what she really thought about the old man creeping on her all those years ago...

My take is that Claremont was great, but he refuses to adapt, or accept that the world moves forward, so he remains stuck in time.

[gurkle]

I always that that was a dumb take, given what has happened since. Or, am I to believe that when Cyclops kills Xavier at the end of AvX, it's because he was possessed by Jean?

If Claremont were in charge of the franchise (and I don't think he should be) he'd find a way to explain that away. His views are not necessarily the ones that other writers and editors share.

It's a bit like how some writers and editors (including his former editor and penciller on X-Men) never accepted Claremont's attempts to redeem Magneto and did everything they could to make Magneto back into a villain. We all have our ideas about which stories should "count" and which ones should be reversed.

[Vishop]

Logan has only Jean to look up to. Others are either evil or dead in the long run lol

As for the topic in hand did Claremont explicitly mentioned about the reason for Logan and Jean. If not then this can relate to Larry Hama's


It never made sense for Phoenix to be anybody else's aside from Jean(Rachel)

[Omega Alpha]

I don't think Claremont has ever been able to really convincingly portray why he thinks the Jean/Logan pairing is a plausible one. But to be fair, he never really had a chance to make the case in his original run. I don't know the timeline exactly, but it feels to me like Jean was already dead by the time he started really pushing the idea that she and Wolverine could be a thing. Or at least when she was alive, Wolverine was pretty clearly not going to win against Scott.

He never intended to. Claremont introduced the triangle with a very forced retcon that doesn't fit his stories, because he wanted to get back at Jim Shooter for breaking up Scott and Madelyne, even though that relationship was clearly forced and made no sense the more you think about it. In his actual original stories, they barely interact, then in DPS Logan reveals he was in love with her out of nowhere, but there's no indication she knew or cared for him more than any other teammate.

[gurkle]

He never intended to. Claremont introduced the triangle with a very forced retcon that doesn't fit his stories, because he wanted to get back at Jim Shooter for breaking up Scott and Madelyne, even though that relationship was clearly forced and made no sense the more you think about it. In his actual original stories, they barely interact, then in DPS Logan reveals he was in love with her out of nowhere, but there's no indication she knew or cared for him more than any other teammate.

Ah, thanks. I was puzzled when I read the Classic X-Men #1 story that explains Jean tried to leave the team because of her attraction to Logan, because, as you said, there's no indication of this at all in the actual run when Jean was alive.

[Vishop]

I always thought that was a dumb take, given what has happened since. Or, am I to believe that when Cyclops kills Xavier at the end of AvX, it's because he was possessed by Jean? Maybe she wanted to finally tell him what she really thought about the old man creeping on her all those years ago...

My take is that Claremont was great, but he refuses to adapt, or accept that the world moves forward, so he remains stuck in time.

It doesn't make sense for Phoenix to possess any non omega mutant in the first place