Rebuild the non-Bat DC line

[Swamp Thing 2099]

1) Action Comics (Superman family book)
2) Superman
3) Supergirl
4) Superboy
5) Steel (John Henry and Natasha)

6) Teen Titans (Red Arrow, Kid Flash, Roundhouse, Crush, Bunker, Jaime Reyes)
7) Titans (Nightwing, Arsenal, Wally West, Natasha Irons, Argent, Cyborg, Ms. Martian)
8) Young Justice (Tim, Cassie, Kon, Bart, Secret, Jinny, Teen Lantern, Sidways) [Naomi back-up]
9) Legion of Super-Heroes

10) Green Lantern
11) Green Lantern Corps (anthology book)

12) Flash
13) Flash Family (anthology book with a regular Rogues feature)
14) Impulse

15) Stargirl
16) Hawkman/Hawkgirl
17) Justice Society (Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Stargirl, robot!Hourman, Spectre, Jakeem Thunder, Khalid Nassour, Cyclone, Atom Smasher, STRIPE, Mary/Shazam, Sand, Michael Holt, Power Girl, Red Beetle, Jay Garrick, Ted Grant, Nate Heywood, Beth Chapel, Yolanda Montez)
18) Doctor Fate
19) Hourman

20) Black Lightning and the Outsiders (Jefferson, Katana, Cassandra, Metamorpho, Connor Hawke, Kimiyo Hoshi, Grace Choi, Ragman, Wild Dog, Michael Lane)
21) Justice League (Doctor Multiverse, Jess Quick, Batwoman, Firestorm [Madison Payne/Martin Stein], Huntress [Bertinelli], John Henry Irons, Red Tornado, Vixen, The Ray, Adam Strange, Madame Xanadu, Mera, Beast Boy)
22) Justice League International (Jon Kent, Jace Fox, Yara Flor, Booster Gold, Ted Kord, Martian Manhunter, Elongated Man, Vibe, Blue Devil, the Wonder Twins, Detective Chimp, Zauriel, Congorilla, Fire, Ice, Animal Man, Aztek [Nayeli]) [Doom Patrol back-up]

23) New Gods
24) Aquamen
25) Martian Manhunter
26) Green Arrow/Black Canary

27) Zatanna
28) Chronos
29) Vext
30) Deadman
31) Swamp Thing
32) Hellblazer

33) Wonder Woman
34) Nubia and the Amazons
35) Wonder Girl

[Midnight_v]

I wonder am I the only one that thinks it can't be done.

I turned on HBO Max and saw pennyworth for the 1st time and I just thought there's so much momentum beyond the bat franchise that even his Butler gets A TV show before before so many other characters favorites.
Some of these characters need more gravitas, And some of them needed more to the personal legend long before now.

That being said peace maker Was a pretty successful show.

I've mentioned that before I really think what's needed is some non Justice based team books. Take the characters that are not main Justice League members and put them on a Team with a mission.

[j9ac9k]

One thing I would do:
Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow franchises will each be consolidated into ONE biweekly title. One book per franchise, each book split between two stories so that every month 4 heroes (or in some cases a pair of heroes) is spotlighted. And all the stories tell simple adventure stories where the main character(s) kick ass and show why they're awesome.(and in some cases, build their supporting characters) The Annuals (remember them?) involve all the heroes in the franchise in a BIG 80-page story.

[Sutekh]

Legion of Super-Heroes
Older Jon Kent is the refugee of a lost timeline only he fully remembers. When it becomes clear that staying in the present will lead to bad domino effects, he travels to the 31st century to check on his Legion friends.
What he discovers is that the legacy of his father's work has had bigger ramification than even he thought possible. The classic Legion is back and now Jon will learn from them what it means to be the Superman of Tomorrow.
Cast: Too many to mention, but basically the Levitz Legion with later additions like Gates, XS and Kid Quantum.
Super Powers
Josiah Power's Power Company is back, and they are acquiring the competition, starting with Booster Gold and Blue Beetle. Meet the Super Powers, DC's ultimate team of heroes for hire.
Cast: Blue Beetle (Ted), Booster Gold, Element Woman, Bumblebee, Red Tornado, Shazam and more.
Vixen & the Global Guardians.
While Green Arrow handles the inner workings of Checkmate, Vixen's role as queen is to keep an eye on global politics.
But she may have a lot to juggle after the United Nations appoint her as the leader of the new Global Guardians, the UN's response to political situations involving metahumans.
Cast: Vixen, Doctor Light, Captain Atom, Manchester Black, Fire, Ice, August General, Impala, Aztek, Doctor Mist etc.

I would go so broke if you were in charge at DC...

Legion of Super-Heroes and Vixen & the Global Guardians and Super Powers would be my must-haves, but I'd want to check out Green Lantern Corps, Supergirl, Action comics, Young Justice, Titans, Sensation comics, Justice Society, Monkey Prince, the Outsiders and Birds of Prey, at the minimum!

[Factor]

I would go so broke if you were in charge at DC...

Legion of Super-Heroes and Vixen & the Global Guardians and Super Powers would be my must-haves, but I'd want to check out Green Lantern Corps, Supergirl, Action comics, Young Justice, Titans, Sensation comics, Justice Society, Monkey Prince, the Outsiders and Birds of Prey, at the minimum!

Thanks so much
I always have a lot of fun coming up with these fantasy DC line-ups. The DCU has so much potential and cool concepts around, they just need to use them.
And I’m glad they’re finally doing something similar to my Super Squad idea in Action Comics.

[DABellWrites]

I wonder am I the only one that thinks it can't be done.

I turned on HBO Max and saw pennyworth for the 1st time and I just thought there's so much momentum beyond the bat franchise that even his Butler gets A TV show before before so many other characters favorites.
Some of these characters need more gravitas, And some of them needed more to the personal legend long before now.

That being said peace maker Was a pretty successful show.

I've mentioned that before I really think what's needed is some non Justice based team books. Take the characters that are not main Justice League members and put them on a Team with a mission.

Well, Superman had a TV show based on Krypton.

[DABellWrites]

BATMAN

Detective Comics. will be for all Batman-related characters.

Batman. for Gotham-based stories.

The Dark Knight. for his detective noir story.

Batman Inc.. Batman team up book.

SUPERMAN

Action Comics for all Superman-related characters.

Superman Metropolis-based stories.

Clark Kent: Reporter. For Clark's investigative work.

Team Superman/Superman Family. A Superman team-up book. Superman is lucky because this title can rotate from Team Superman (Steel, Matrix, Linda, etc.) to the Superman Family (Jon, Kara, Connor, Lois, etc.).

WONDER WOMAN

Sensation Comics. For all Wonder Woman-related characters.

Wonder Woman. She stays the same. Diana doesn't need a city.

The Amazing Amazon. Diana's second book. Focuses more on mythology.

Wonder Family. Wonder Woman team-up book.

FLASH

All-Flash. For Flash-related characters.

The Flash. For whoever DC picks to be the main Flash.

The Scarlet Knight. Secondary book for the Flash.

Speedsters The Flash team-up book.

GREEN LANTERN

The Lantern Corps. For all Green Lantern-related characters.

The Green Lantern.. For whoever DC picks to be main Green Lantern.

The Emerald Knight. Jesus, all these damn knights. The Green Lantern second book.

The Corps. GL team-up book.

GREEN ARROW

Green Arrow and his Merrie Archers.. For all Green Arrow-related characters.

The Green Arrow. Ollie's man book set in Star City.

The Emerald Archer. Ollie's second book whatever else he does.

Black Canary. Dinah's solo book.

Star City Arrowsmiths'. Green Arrow team-up book.

AQUAMAN

Atlantis. For all Aquaman-related characters.

Aquaman. Arthur's main book for whatever he does.

King Arthur. Arthur's second book for whatever he does.

Seven Kingdoms. Aquaman team-up book.

ALL-STAR COMICS

For all DC Comics team books. Justice League, Teen Titans, Young Justice, etc.

The World's Finest

A team-up book. Any characters you ever wanted teamed up together? This is the book.

MORE FUN COMICS

B/C-Listers.

DC COMICS PRESENTS...

Anthology for B/C-listers-only.

DC SHOWCASE

For new characters to get their feet wet.

ELSEWORLDS

A non-canon anthology book.

All books get the same amount of pages. You can't overuse a character/s in team-ups and the anthology titles. The names in bold are for the franchise. No characters from Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman,etc. can appear in More Fun Comics andDC Comics Presents.... I think my idea is fair. It gives lots of room for growth. Readers don't have pick x amount of titles for their pull-list. And, I think it can build up the settings better.

[astro@work]

My rebuilt non-Bat line... (and I'm pessimistic about how much content would publish right away)...

Superman titles
Action Comics (Anthology w/ rotating characters including Steel, Power Girl, Conner, and the new adopted Super twins; and yeah they are already going down this road...)
Supergirl and the Legion (featuring - for God's sakes - the OG Legion)
Superman (featuring Kal)
Son of Superman (featuring Jon)

Team titles
Justice League (featuring some classic and some non-A list characters who may never get their own title such as Vixen, Atom, J'onn)
Titans (in continuity, with familiar Titans and a sloooowwww introduction of new characters; but for heaven's sake do right by our favorites)
Outsiders (Black Lightning and other traditionally NON-JLA characters)
JSA (try something new here DC and celebrate your history instead of hating on it! Stop being the self-loathing comic company!!!!)

Wonder Woman titles
Wonder Woman (but replace the Young Diana feature with a rotating Donna or Nubia or Cassie feature; DC missing an easy opportunity to build up these characters)
Wonder Girl (featuring Yara; let Joelle write but she can't seem to keep an art schedule; give every other arc to another artist)

Solo characters
Green Lanterns featuring Hal & John
Flash (featuring Wally. Decisively. Not this wishy washy "who's the lead?" approach).
Hawkman (featuring Carter and Shay; play up some synergy with his leading role in Black Adam)
Black Adam (again play up the synergy and introduce Isis, Osiris, and include White Adam...build up the mythology)

[Kaijudo]

So...45 books total, right? 10 (give or take) Batbooks and 35 non-Batbooks? Here's what I'd do:

Superman Titles
1. Action Comics
2. Superman
3. Supergirl
4. Superboys (Connor and Jon love/hate buddy book)

Batman Titles
5. Detective Comics (Batman with Damian as Robin)
6. Batman
7. Nightwing
8. Robin (Tim Drake)
9. Batgirls (Barbara as Oracle helping Steph and Cassie)
10. The Outsiders (Black Lightning, Katana, Metamorpho, Looker, Grace, Red Hood)

Wonder Woman Titles
11. Wonder Woman
12. Donna Troy (she needs her own book, to build out her character and figure out her origins)

Green Lantern Titles
13. Green Lantern (Hal and John rotate as lead character on solo adventures)
14. Green Lantern Corps (Kyle, Jessica, and Guy are regulars)

Justice League Titles
15. Aquaman (Arthur with Jackson supporting)
16. Flash (Wally West)
17. Green Arrow/Black Canary
18. Firestorm (Ronnie and Jason merging into hero)
19. Vixen (giant globetrotting adventure series)
20. Blue & Gold (Ted and Booster in buddy comedy)
21. Zatanna
22. Justice League Unlimited (Weekly series with multiple creative teams telling adventures of different line-ups pulled from a massive League. Most characters with solo/duo books mentioned so far are among the chief players of the team (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Lantern (rotating), Flash, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Vixen, Zatanna, Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Firestorm) along with folks like Martian Manhunter, Red Tornado, and the Atom. Other characters from other books may join but won't be part of the League Titles)

Justice Society Titles
23. Stargirl (partnered with STRIPE)
24. Hawkman (partnered with Hawkgirl)
25. Sandman Mystery Theater ("legacy" title set in past)
26. Mister Terrific
27. Wildcat (adventures of Ted while Yolanda serves on the team)
28. Power Girl
29. Dr. Fate (Khalid guided by Kent Nelson)
30. Justice Society of America (All those mentioned above (minus Wildcat and Sandman) along with Jay, Alan, Jakeem Thunder. Dr. Mid-Nite (Beth), Wildcat (Yolanda), Obsidian, Jade, Hourman, and Jessie Quick)

Other Solo Books
31. The Question (Vic Sage)
32. The Shade (exploring history of DCU as well as modern adventures)
33. Frankenstein (balls-out action horror)
34. Fire & Ice (Deeper exploration of the two and their friendship)
35. Hawk and Dove (Hank and Dawn)
36. Swamp Thing/John Constantine (each is the lead in rotating stories, though the other always plays some kind of role in it, even if it's just in a consulting capacity)
37. Shazam! (Billy Batson as the lead, with other family members as supporting)

Other Team Books
38. The Titans (Nightwing, Donna Troy, and Arsenal lead a team that's part original Teen Titans, part New Teen Titans, and part Young Justice. Includes Beast Boy, Cyborg, Starfire, Impulse, and the Secret)
39. Doom Patrol (Part Morrison, part Johns, and part Giffen with a team of The Chief, Elasti-Girl, Crazy Jane, Robotman, Negative Man, Bumblebee, and Ambush Bug)
40. Legion of Super-Heroes (Cherry picking best versions of characters from all runs besides Bendis, who had no best versions, not even the new characters he created)
41. Shadowpact (Basically combining the original team with elements of Justice League Dark. Includes Nightshade, Black Orchid, Blue Devil, Ragman, Detective Chimp, Raven, Jason Blood, and Animal Man)
42. Global Guardians (An international team of heroes led by Dr. Mist, Dr. Light, Captain Atom, and Celsius. Includes August General in Iron, Red Star, Tasmanian Devil, Extrano, La Sangre, Jet, and Kid Impala)
43. Suicide Squad (Combining the Ostrander run with a few members who came later. Cast includes Rick Flag, Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Harley Quinn, Bronze Tiger, Enchantress, and King Shark)
44. Secret Six (villains/anti-heroes on the run. Team is made up of Catman, Cheshire, Ragdoll, Scandal Savage, Giganta, and Peacemaker)
45. The Wanderers (team of heroes in deep space. Includes Captain Comet, Jemm (Son of Saturn), Ultraa The Multi-Alien, Tanga, Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes), Starfire (non-Kory one), Willow, and Jezebelle, with Lobo getting in their way)

[Jim Kelly]

It exasperates me when I look at all these lists. It seems that rather than a big fish in a little pond, most readers simply want more fish and to keep the little pond. The little pond being the super-hero pond.

Surely it's better--not for super-hero readers maybe--but for the industry as a whole, to expand beyond that one genre and put out comics that will bring in more consumers in the long run. The publisher shouldn't be a one trick pony, because people eventually get tired of a one trick and go searching for other tricks.

Even among those who like super-heroes, most of us get tired of them after awhile and start looking for other things to read. It's good, when that happens, if the consumer can still stick with the brand they love, to find that other kind of content.

In fact, if Batman is going to be the company's Archie, that might not be such a bad thing. Archie comics generated lots of different kinds of comics under the umbrella of Archie. Batman has the benefit of overlapping into other comic book genres--crime fiction, war stories, period adventures, social drama, humour, science fiction, horror. The Batman comics can do this, because the main character doesn't have super-powers and it's possible to create stories that exist outside the super-hero universe.

[Stanlos]

The sheer number of Lanterns makes me think that whatever they do they should strongly consider the era where there were three Leagues

[Kaijudo]

It exasperates me when I look at all these lists. It seems that rather than a big fish in a little pond, most readers simply want more fish and to keep the little pond. The little pond being the super-hero pond.

Surely it's better--not for super-hero readers maybe--but for the industry as a whole, to expand beyond that one genre and put out comics that will bring in more consumers in the long run. The publisher shouldn't be a one trick pony, because people eventually get tired of a one trick and go searching for other tricks.

Even among those who like super-heroes, most of us get tired of them after awhile and start looking for other things to read. It's good, when that happens, if the consumer can still stick with the brand they love, to find that other kind of content.

In fact, if Batman is going to be the company's Archie, that might not be such a bad thing. Archie comics generated lots of different kinds of comics under the umbrella of Archie. Batman has the benefit of overlapping into other comic book genres--crime fiction, war stories, period adventures, social drama, humour, science fiction, horror. The Batman comics can do this, because the main character doesn't have super-powers and it's possible to create stories that exist outside the super-hero universe.

I can only speak for myself, of course, but to my way of thinking, that's what other publishers are for. These days, non-superhero books traditionally don't sell great at DC or Marvel...they can have a smallish fanbase and still limp along due to internal support, but regardless of quality they inevitably disappear. Subsequently, superhero books at other publishers traditionally don't do well...you'll get an odd one, like Invincible, but how much of that was Kirkman using the clout and sales of the Walking Dead to keep his other baby afloat?

I read DC and Marvel for their superhero books and other publishers for their sci-fi, horror, etc. Every time I see one of the big two attempt to graft their characters to a different genre, like DC Vampires or Marvel Zombies, I think it just reads like a cheap ploy to put butts in seats...same with something like Injustice, which just plays to me like Kingdom Come for the grimdark set. In fact, a character who would fall under your hopes for a bigger pond, Sgt. Rock, is finally back...but only because he's fighting zombies (and being written by Bruce Campbell), not because DC will do a legit war book, because they know shelf-life is limited. And frankly, DC shot itself in the foot as far as credibility with these things go with the dissolution of Vertigo. I was a big Hellblazer fan but the second John Constantine joined (some variation of) the Justice League, those days were officially dead, at least for me.

I think your Archie comparison is interesting, but I'd argue that Archie was a character so set in the period he was created that he had no choice but to evolve or die, and that evolution has led to some interesting avenues (though not entirely unexpected, given that magic and monsters have been part of that world since Sabrina debuted in the 60s). Batman, while he has evolved over time, I'd say has more universal elements that transcend the time that created him. And while Batman's nature might lend himself to jump genres with ease, he's always going to come back to what he is, which is still a superhero. It's probably telling that most people can identify Batman from a dozen different sources these days while most people would know Archie from episodes of Riverdale.

[D.Z]

If there is no strong demand for those characters without books nowadays, then there is no point to reviving many axed titles. And moreso if top writers don't want to write those characters.

[DABellWrites]

It exasperates me when I look at all these lists. It seems that rather than a big fish in a little pond, most readers simply want more fish and to keep the little pond. The little pond being the super-hero pond.

Surely it's better--not for super-hero readers maybe--but for the industry as a whole, to expand beyond that one genre and put out comics that will bring in more consumers in the long run. The publisher shouldn't be a one trick pony, because people eventually get tired of a one trick and go searching for other tricks.

Even among those who like super-heroes, most of us get tired of them after awhile and start looking for other things to read. It's good, when that happens, if the consumer can still stick with the brand they love, to find that other kind of content.

In fact, if Batman is going to be the company's Archie, that might not be such a bad thing. Archie comics generated lots of different kinds of comics under the umbrella of Archie. Batman has the benefit of overlapping into other comic book genres--crime fiction, war stories, period adventures, social drama, humour, science fiction, horror. The Batman comics can do this, because the main character doesn't have super-powers and it's possible to create stories that exist outside the super-hero universe.

DC Comics and Marvel Comics days of publishing a variety of stories are long behind them, it's why they had Vertigo and Epic to begin with. You know what? I think that's okay. Marvel and DC are mostly known for superheroes now, so why not publish what people want from them? I remember reading the submission guideline for DC, and they stated they want superheroes (it was like for some workshop thing).

[Factor]

Guys, this is a thread to discuss ideas for the regular DCU, which shockingly is centered around super-heroes. I didn’t feel the need to specify that DC could still put out titles in other genres, because that’s clearly not the point here.
We’re here to discuss DC’s regular super-hero line, set in the regular DCU.
Don’t motivate people who only come to derail the thread’s topic.