Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[Frontier]

Discussion regarding Boseman aside, I'm kinda surprised that they're introducing Atlantis in the second movie. I kinda hoped that they'd focus more on developing Wakanda

Where's my Achebe ?

I can understand T’Challa fans being upset. No one wanted things to play out like this. I think refusing to see the movie is cutting off your nose to spite your face however, but that’s their choice.

As for the lack of black male actors. I don’t get it. Why do some men, black or white, seem to have a problem with strong women getting some shine. The fact that a big budget movie like this can exist at all should be celebrated by everyone.

People noticing the lack of prominent black male actors (other than M'Baku) doesn't mean they're putting down women, just so much as this was a movie with a powerful, inspirational, black male lead that was important for young kids and people in general and now it's...gone. And like every other male character is either dead, in jail, etc.

Fair enough. And I'm with you that at some point we need to see another T'Challa on-screen (just like we need to see another Tony Stark). The Multiverse makes that possible without a reboot (or maybe the multiverse will build up to a reboot in a few years...who knows?)

That said, while T'Challa is undoubtedly the character who Black Panther was created as, if we examine the fundamentals of his character, and the franchise in general, what do we find? He's a character who, more than anything else, is defined by being the king of Wakanda and holding the mantle of Black Panther (the two usually being one and the same). Which is not to say that T'Challa isn't a distinct character in his own right with his own personality - but so much of his story and his character is defined by Wakanda.

Then you examine the Black Panther film itself. The movie had become the pop-cultural juggernaut that it is not just because of the character of T'Challa but because of the world of Wakanda, its history, its culture, and the rich cast of characters who live there or who get involved with the place. ''Wakanda Forever'' is a phrase that has entered the pop-culture lexicon in its own right. So yeah, there's definitely a lot that the Black Panther mythos (or the Wakandan mythos rather) can offer beyond the character of T'Challa. And conveniently the mantle of Black Panther isn't tied to one character alone.

To be honest I think Wakanda is as much defined in relation to T'Challa as T'Challa is defined by Wakanda. And, I mean, one of the best Black Panther runs had T'Challa in New York basically being a fill-in Daredevil while still being in-character, which just goes to show how strong his character is.

And I think it's really downplaying his impact to say that T'Challa wasn't an instrumental and major part of why the movie did so well. Wakanda literally would not exist without T'Challa and he's the very center of the entire mythos.

It's like saying you don't need Batman to tell Gotham stories but no one would say Batman isn't a fundamentally important character to Gotham.

[newparisian]

Trailer looks great! I'm there opening weekend.

[HollowSage]

People noticing the lack of prominent black male actors (other than M'Baku) doesn't mean they're putting down women, just so much as this was a movie with a powerful, inspirational, black male lead that was important for young kids and people in general and now it's...gone. And like every other male character is either dead, in jail, etc.

Everyone misses Chadwick. I think the only issue is if it’s too soon to simply recast and keep it moving. It’s a hard call and people would criticize no matter what they did. I think most companies would simply recast because that’s the right financial call and Marvel has done it in the past. I really think they left it up to Coogler and the cast because this is far more emotional than recasting Rhodey or Banner.

Eventually they may recast T’Challa as well as Tony and Steve. Meanwhile we do still have Sam Wilson/Captain America who also has a movie coming.

[Colossus1980]

I never really thought about it but a poster brought up the fact he's not watching the movie because they are profiting off Boseman's death by having T'Challa die as well. I see his point of view.

[useridgoeshere]

I’m not really sure why people think Ryan Coogler (or Joe Robert Cole) would have something against strong Black men, but there were four in the first movie - one died in the movie, one died in real life, and one committed to a different movie. That could be why Winston Duke is the only prominent Black guy that we see in the trailer. The four main Black women were apparently all available and came back, but it’s not like T’Challa and W’Kabi were spitefully written out because Coogler wanted to marginalize Black men. I guess he could’ve created new characters but they’re introducing a whole new nation to the MCU, so I can see why he’d focus on the heroes audiences know.

[inisideguy]

I never really thought about it but a poster brought up the fact he's not watching the movie because they are profiting off Boseman's death by having T'Challa die as well. I see his point of view.

Anyone can form a point of view regarding this one way or the other. Personally I think that is a stupid point of view. But there is no winning this argument. People feel how people feel.

[choptop]

No problem, while I do believe that those in charge of the movie truly think that what they're doing will honor the legacy of Chadwick Boseman I respectfully disagree. There are other ways to honor and mourn the man aside from sidelining the character he brought to life. I don't wish I'll of the film but it's just not something I'm going to support myself.



See my response to Jack The Tripper. I have zero intention of seeing it in theaters though if my family really wants to watch it on Disney plus I might relent but I don't think that's going to happen.

Im sorry I still don't understand? You're not seeing the movie you think looks good because they are sidelining BP?

[Jack The Tripper]

I never really thought about it but a poster brought up the fact he's not watching the movie because they are profiting off Boseman's death by having T'Challa die as well. I see his point of view.

I don’t know if I agree with that… Chadwick’s friends, cast, crew made this movie. I really doubt Coogler and Feige sat there and thought about how they could capitalise off of his death. The movie looks to be emotional, respecting Chadwick’s legacy by using his character’s death/reaction to it to make something that might mirror Coogler’s experience with it.

It would have been far worse had they recast or say T’Challa is off on a mission somewhere whilst they recast. People complain about Marvel being a machine, then some people want them to immediately replace a young actor that died under unexpected and tragic circumstances. T’Challa will already live forever, let Chadwick Boseman have a bit of a legacy before we move on to a new actor.

Regarding capitalising off his death - I will not see that point of view until there’s a Lego set of the funeral.

[Somecrazyaussie]

I don’t know if I agree with that… Chadwick’s friends, cast, crew made this movie. I really doubt Coogler and Feige sat there and thought about how they could capitalise off of his death. The movie looks to be emotional, respecting Chadwick’s legacy by using his character’s death/reaction to it to make something that might mirror Coogler’s experience with it.

It would have been far worse had they recast or say T’Challa is off on a mission somewhere whilst they recast. People complain about Marvel being a machine, then some people want them to immediately replace a young actor that died under unexpected and tragic circumstances. T’Challa will already live forever, let Chadwick Boseman have a bit of a legacy before we move on to a new actor.

Regarding capitalising off his death - I will not see that point of view until there’s a Lego set of the funeral.

But even those close to Chadwick said he wouldn't want the role to die with him. Now you run into a situation whereby what time will be the right time to recast? Will they ever recast?

His death was tragic. But they sidelined a character that had much more potential storywise. I get both sides of the argument. But that would be like nobody else playing The Joker after Heath died.

[ZeonsSilverStar]

Im sorry I still don't understand? You're not seeing the movie you think looks good because they are sidelining BP?

Visually it looks nice, story wise I is a different situation. I'm not going to spend money on a movie that seems to going out of its way to make the main character a footnote in his own franchise. I could go even further and say that Marvel has so few black male heroes who aren't legacies or partners that it's ridiculous to sideline their biggest one.

[HollowSage]

Visually it looks nice, story wise I is a different situation. I'm not going to spend money on a movie that seems to going out of its way to make the main character a footnote in his own franchise. I could go even further and say that Marvel has so few black male heroes who aren't legacies or partners that it's ridiculous to sideline their biggest one.

If you don’t want to see the movie that’s cool, but let’s remember that no one wanted this. The writers and director are respectfully trying to navigate around a terrible situation.

You are right about them needing more black male heroes but they also need more black female heroes and let’s not forget that there is still a Black Panther in this movie.

[Jack The Tripper]

But even those close to Chadwick said he wouldn't want the role to die with him. Now you run into a situation whereby what time will be the right time to recast? Will they ever recast?

His death was tragic. But they sidelined a character that had much more potential storywise. I get both sides of the argument. But that would be like nobody else playing The Joker after Heath died.

Although I respect that Chadwick’s brother said that (after filming concluded I think), it doesn’t mean that the creatives behind the camera would be comfortable with recasting

I think it would have been incredibly strange to feature Joker in TDKR played by a different actor. In fact, I understand Nolan had loose plans to use Ledger in the sequel, but then decided not to after his passing. You could say there was much more story to tell for Joker, but they decided against it. No one is saying that there can never be another T’Challa on screen, played by another actor. It just wouldn’t be right to replace Chadwick in this iteration.

The MCU as we know it won’t last forever, there will be rebooted Black Panther films in the future. I’m sure they may even consider bringing a new actor in via the multiverse after Secret Wars. We’ve had multiple different actors for Joker since Ledger died, because they existed in different worlds. Black Panther will get a new film series eventually, and T’Challa will be represented by a new actor.

[inisideguy]

Although I respect that Chadwick’s brother said that (after filming concluded I think), it doesn’t mean that the creatives behind the camera would be comfortable with recasting

I think it would have been incredibly strange to feature Joker in TDKR played by a different actor. In fact, I understand Nolan had loose plans to use Ledger in the sequel, but then decided not to after his passing. You could say there was much more story to tell for Joker, but they decided against it. No one is saying that there can never be another T’Challa on screen, played by another actor. It just wouldn’t be right to replace Chadwick in this iteration.

The MCU as we know it won’t last forever, there will be rebooted Black Panther films in the future. I’m sure they may even consider bringing a new actor in via the multiverse after Secret Wars. We’ve had multiple different actors for Joker since Ledger died, because they existed in different worlds. Black Panther will get a new film series eventually, and T’Challa will be represented by a new actor.

Yea I don't think comparing Chadwick and Black Panther to the Joker or Banner or Rodney or any of these other things is comparable. There have been recasts. Like you said with Joker he is just in a different universe every time. With banner no one cared, well maybe a few people but that was the actors choice. With Rodney I don't know what happened there some fallout. But its just not the same with Chadwick even if people want to make it like it is. The studio didn't feel right doing it. I don't think the cast felt right either. Not at this time. I think they made the right choice.

[Scott Taylor]

How is the role dying with Chadwick. There literally was a Black Panther shown in the trailer. This is weird.

[80sbaby]

How is the role dying with Chadwick. There literally was a Black Panther shown in the trailer. This is weird.

They're talking about T'Challa, not BP as a mantle.