Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[Kirby101]

We do disagree. No point in writing several paragraphs in all the ways I thought it was bad.
But one question. You live in a country with the greatest and most advance defense system on Earth. But rather than extended your defenses into the rivers that feed your landlocked nation, you put a hundred warriors armed with spears on a boat and go to the middle of the ocean, where a race of super strong water people, who "numbers are greater than the blades of grass" and fight them there with only one easily stopped offensive weapon at the bottom of the vulnerable boat? When I watch a movie and start questioning some really dumb choices by the characters, as I often did here, the movie loses me.

[thwhtGuardian]

We do disagree. No point in writing several paragraphs in all the ways I thought it was bad.
But one question. You live in a country with the greatest and most advance defense system on Earth. But rather than extended your defenses into the rivers that feed your landlocked nation, you put a hundred warriors armed with spears on a boat and go to the middle of the ocean, where a race of super strong water people, who "numbers are greater than the blades of grass" and fight them there with only one easily stopped offensive weapon at the bottom of the vulnerable boat? When I watch a movie and start questioning some really dumb choices by the characters, as I often did here, the movie loses me.

I didn't question that scene for a second it seemed like a ruse that was supposed to lure Namor out into the open in a place where innocent people wouldn't be harmed so that they could spring their trap and weaken and then kill him...and it worked except she decided to spare him.

I can get not liking it, all tastes are different, but that seems like an odd reason to me.

[Kirby101]

I didn't question that scene for a second it seemed like a ruse that was supposed to lure Namor out into the open in a place where innocent people wouldn't be harmed so that they could spring their trap and weaken and then kill him...and it worked except she decided to spare him.

I can get not liking it, all tastes are different, but that seems like an odd reason to me.

It was one of many.

[thwhtGuardian]

It was one of many.

It just doesn't seem to be a logical one, it seems like the kind of gripe that only exists out of context. Perhaps you were already checked out by that point and were getting a snack or reading a text when the build up to that scene happened? That would make it understandable for why the scene didn't work for you as otherwise it made sense with in the over all plot.

[Kirby101]

It just doesn't seem to be a logical one, it seems like the kind of gripe that only exists out of context. Perhaps you were already checked out by that point and were getting a snack or reading a text when the build up to that scene happened? That would make it understandable for why the scene didn't work for you as otherwise it made sense with in the over all plot.

No I thought it was an idiotic strategy for the reasons stated. I heard the reasoning and thought it dumb when they said it. And it proved dumb. Shuri beat Namor by luck alone. And the Wakandans were defeated, badly, on the water. Why lure them into a fight in the water when they were already coming onto land to attach them and they could have confronted them anywhere where they had the advantage? I didn't "check out", I watched with credulity. And as I said, many places before that the movie left me questioning things that were going on.

You want another? The government took Riri's ideas and built a big machine to find Vibranium using her theories. (she didn't even know about it) She did not build it, and once built, killing her would not stop another from being built. Killing Alexander Graham Bell would not have stopped more phones being built. That is not how technology works. It's just a stupid plot devise that falls apart once you think about it.

[krazijoe]

No I thought it was an idiotic strategy for the reasons stated. I heard the reasoning and thought it dumb when they said it. And it proved dumb. Shuri beat Namor by luck alone. And the Wakandans were defeated, badly, on the water. Why lure them into a fight in the water when they were already coming onto land to attach them and they could have confronted them anywhere where they had the advantage? I didn't "check out", I watched with credulity. And as I said, many places before that the movie left me questioning things that were going on.

You want another? The government took Riri's ideas and built a big machine to find Vibranium using her theories. (she didn't even know about it) She did not build it, and once built, killing her would not stop another from being built. Killing Alexander Graham Bell would not have stopped more phones being built. That is not how technology works. It's just a stupid plot devise that falls apart once you think about it.

I am thinking they lured them out and the Atlanteans thought they would have an advantage. The whole premise was for Wakanda to grab namor and bring him to the desert, but he wrecked those plans when he caused their ship to crash at the beach. Once Namor was defeated in the desert the Atlanteans would stop their fight and admit defeat. Apparently the Wakandans don't know Attuma very well. BUt yes, overall a stupid plan from the Country that is know for its high Intelligence.

[Reviresco]

We do disagree. No point in writing several paragraphs in all the ways I thought it was bad.
But one question. You live in a country with the greatest and most advance defense system on Earth. But rather than extended your defenses into the rivers that feed your landlocked nation, you put a hundred warriors armed with spears on a boat and go to the middle of the ocean, where a race of super strong water people, who "numbers are greater than the blades of grass" and fight them there with only one easily stopped offensive weapon at the bottom of the vulnerable boat? When I watch a movie and start questioning some really dumb choices by the characters, as I often did here, the movie loses me.

They DID extend their defenses into the rivers, and they cloaked air ships to watch the rivers, but the Talokanil got past them, twice.

I didn't question that scene for a second it seemed like a ruse that was supposed to lure Namor out into the open in a place where innocent people wouldn't be harmed so that they could spring their trap and weaken and then kill him...and it worked except she decided to spare him.

I can get not liking it, all tastes are different, but that seems like an odd reason to me.

Exactly.

No I thought it was an idiotic strategy for the reasons stated. I heard the reasoning and thought it dumb when they said it. And it proved dumb. Shuri beat Namor by luck alone. And the Wakandans were defeated, badly, on the water. Why lure them into a fight in the water when they were already coming onto land to attach them and they could have confronted them anywhere where they had the advantage? I didn't "check out", I watched with credulity. And as I said, many places before that the movie left me questioning things that were going on.

You want another? The government took Riri's ideas and built a big machine to find Vibranium using her theories. (she didn't even know about it) She did not build it, and once built, killing her would not stop another from being built. Killing Alexander Graham Bell would not have stopped more phones being built. That is not how technology works. It's just a stupid plot devise that falls apart once you think about it.

No. The government took Riri's machine which she did build for a class project; there were no plans. She didn't know that her professor had given the machine to the CIA. That's why both the US and Namor wanted her.

As for the first ... well, if the Wakandans had the advantage in their first encounter, it sure didn't look like it. And that was a tiny group of Talokanil that invaded Wakanda.

I am thinking they lured them out and the Atlanteans thought they would have an advantage. The whole premise was for Wakanda to grab namor and bring him to the desert, but he wrecked those plans when he caused their ship to crash at the beach. Once Namor was defeated in the desert the Atlanteans would stop their fight and admit defeat. Apparently the Wakandans don't know Attuma very well. BUt yes, overall a stupid plan from the Country that is know for its high Intelligence.

Namor was returning in a week (which was the WTF? point, IMO) and none of the Wakandans wanted to face him IN Wakanda to see more of their city destroyed.


What bothered me about the Wakandan ship encounter was would a sound emitter actually work on people that were wearing vibranium? Maybe even in their big earrings and ear mods?

The other thing I noticed when I watched it again this week, was Attuma's plan was to board the ship ... to sink it. And I was like ... why not just stay under water and hole the hull? Like Namora was doing with the water bombs. No need to fight the Wakandans at all. I guess that's why Namora was the general in charge. ;p

Also, why is the Wakanda using a bunch of Jabari holding ropes to swing the Dora into battle? Like ... they don't have winches?

Of course, the answer is that it all looked cool.

[Frobisher]

Why didn’t the Wakandans just shoot the Talokans with akimbo 1887s?

[Kirby101]

Why didn’t the Wakandans just shoot the Talokans with akimbo 1887s?

They chose to forsake the sonic guns that they obviously had for spears. So rather than just shoot the Talokans from the side of the ship, they repelled down for hand to hand combat with a stronger force. Because they are so intelligent and advanced.

And can someone explain why Namor decided now is the time to go to war with the entire world? Something to do with that machine which they easily stopped and could again. Does he really think the military might of the planet could not destroy his undersea kingdom? I mean in the few hundred years since that small tribe went under water, how many people does he have? How big an army? It doesn't look like he has nukes. The world does?

And why would a Mayan say "Imperus Rex", even translated into Mayan, it makes no sense. An Easter Egg for the fans that is both awkward and silly.

[Reviresco]

Why didn’t the Wakandans just shoot the Talokans with akimbo 1887s?

They chose to forsake the sonic guns that they obviously had for spears. So rather than just shoot the Talokans from the side of the ship, they repelled down for hand to hand combat with a stronger force. Because they are so intelligent and advanced.

And can someone explain why Namor decided now is the time to go to war with the entire world? Something to do with that machine which they easily stopped and could again. Does he really think the military might of the planet could not destroy his undersea kingdom? I mean in the few hundred years since that small tribe went under water, how many people does he have? How big an army? It doesn't look like he has nukes. The world does?

And why would a Mayan say "Imperus Rex", even translated into Mayan, it makes no sense. An Easter Egg for the fans that is both awkward and silly.

Noooo!!!! You can't have my Imperius Rex! fan service! And why wouldn't warriors have a battle cry? From Deus Volt! to Remember the Alamo! to Hot Pie!!


Because now that the world is looking for vibranium in the ocean, their domain, he knows they are going to try to take it from them, just like they are trying to take it from Wakanda. All your questions apply to Wakanda. Why don't they just nuke Wakanda? Ross advised against starting trouble, cause apparently, no one knows what sort of weapons they have.

We didn't get to spend enough time or get enough details about Talokan. But they have vibranium and they could use to make a 'sun' underwater, and they have ways of making converting water to explosive energy while "transmuting" elements, so they clearly have tech.

As for how many people Talokan has ... start counting the blades of grass in Wakanda.

[Kirby101]

So they went from a small Mayan tribe to millions in a few hundred years? Another thing that made me shake my head.
Look, I get people liked it, it made oodles of money. But there are obvious problems with most of it. And if you enjoy the movie, you can explain them away. But if you are bored, or put off by them, as I was, they keep compounding. We go through the same thing reading comics. This movie needed more No Prizes than any other Marvel movie.

[Reviresco]

So they went from a small Mayan tribe to millions in a few hundred years? Another thing that made me shake my head.
Look, I get people liked it, it made oodles of money. But there are obvious problems with most of it. And if you enjoy the movie, you can explain them away. But if you are bored, or put off by them, as I was, they keep compounding. We go through the same thing reading comics. This movie needed more No Prizes than any other Marvel movie.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it and you've certainly made valid points, and yes, I am more forgiving of movies, especially superhero movies. But I agree there were things even I found head scratching and couldn't explain away. Turns out a few of them are in the script and movie bible, but that's not the movie and viewers shouldn't be expected to track it down.

We just didn't see enough of the Talokanil or their history to explain things like that -- though, again, some stuff was in the movie bible. The Talokan had to have recruited more Mayans than what we saw in the movie. There could have been a planned explosion of population, but then again, look at how the US population blew up in 400 years.

[krazijoe]

I rewatched it again on Saturday, did anyone else expect the kid at the end to proclaim his love of Corn?

[Kirby101]

I rewatched it again on Saturday, did anyone else expect the kid at the end to proclaim his love of Corn?

Don't get me started with the problems I had with that reveal.

[Kirby101]

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it and you've certainly made valid points, and yes, I am more forgiving of movies, especially superhero movies. But I agree there were things even I found head scratching and couldn't explain away. Turns out a few of them are in the script and movie bible, but that's not the movie and viewers shouldn't be expected to track it down.

We just didn't see enough of the Talokanil or their history to explain things like that -- though, again, some stuff was in the movie bible. The Talokan had to have recruited more Mayans than what we saw in the movie. There could have been a planned explosion of population, but then again, look at how the US population blew up in 400 years.

Different mileage. I'm not trying to convince anyone to not like it. I have liked plenty of movies that had plot problem.