ASM 6 (#900) Discussion

[federicodettofred]

I really can't understand what the hell Wells is doing with series.

Yep, that's the main problem. It look like a group of writers took the name "Zeb Wells" and tried to make a run. This is like Spencer's lows x100.

[RJT]

MJ always wins the best Spidey love interest polls. So your views on the subject definitely do not align with those of the majority of Spider-Man fans.

The marriage to Mary Jane was editorially mandated and came out of nowhere. (The issue before Peter proposed to MJ he was hooking up with Felicia.) None of the writers wanted to do it, because they all felt that she worked best as a friend than a love interest.

[Kevinroc]

The marriage to Mary Jane was editorially mandated and came out of nowhere. (The issue before Peter proposed to MJ he was hooking up with Felicia.) None of the writers wanted to do it, because they all felt that she worked best as a friend than a love interest.

I didn't mention the wedding at all. I merely said that MJ is the most popular love interest.

If you want to have THAT conversation, all I will say is that Stan Lee was the one who decided to marry Peter and MJ.

[Matt Rat]

The marriage to Mary Jane was editorially mandated and came out of nowhere. (The issue before Peter proposed to MJ he was hooking up with Felicia.) None of the writers wanted to do it, because they all felt that she worked best as a friend than a love interest.

LOL, not this tired argument again.

The marriage came about because Stan chose to marry Mary Jane to Peter in the newspaper comics. It was Stan who thought MJ worked best as a love interest due to the amount of fan feedback he was getting at conventions asking that she and Peter get together. In the end, the demands of the co-creator and the fans were listened to over the concerns of the writers.

Tom DeFalco, who was initially opposed to the marriage, wound up actually becoming a strong advocate of it and become one of the best to ever write them married, as well as arguably define Peter's true legacy as the father of Spider-Girl.

Peter and MJ's marriage also made a great deal of sense at the time, either through the writers unintentionally making the couple work so well as confidants and close friends while Peter had problems with Felicia, or through a real investment in exploring their relationship. Whatever the writers felt at the time, they wrote themselves into a corner by writing Peter and MJ far too well to justify it falling apart.

And so what if Peter jumped from Felicia to MJ straight away? Felicia wasn't a good fit for him, h realised that, and chose his best friend. It happens in romantic fiction all the time.

[Kevinroc]

The fact of the matter is Marvel has no ideas for what to do with Spider-Man except troll Peter x MJ shippers. It's been like that since OMD, with only Spencer trying to actually legitimately not do that until his run imploded (either due to editorial interference or not).

Hire a BND writer, get that same tired BND mentality.

[Lee]

The marriage to Mary Jane was editorially mandated and came out of nowhere. (The issue before Peter proposed to MJ he was hooking up with Felicia.) None of the writers wanted to do it, because they all felt that she worked best as a friend than a love interest.

Yeah, I doubt much of the readership felt that Mary Jane was the great love of Peter's life in 1986/early 1987. They weren't married because she was the big love interest of the series, she became the big love interest in the series because they were married. Before that, she was a supporting cast member, like Betty Brant.

[Matt Rat]

Yeah, I doubt much of the readership felt that Mary Jane was the great love of Peter's life in 1986/early 1987

Fans of the two constantly asked about them at conventions. Stan first revealed he was marrying them at one when asked if it were a possibility by a fan. Mary Jane as a love interest always had her supporters. Don't speak for those fans please, you weren't there.

Also, why do you act like MJ hadn't been a love interest before the marriage? She and Peter were serious in the 70s kid, not to mention in the newspaper comics, she never really took a long-term break compared to her 616 version and was featured as a near continuous romantic interest. The readership around that time would have probably grown up reading daily comics with the impression MJ was very much the love interest.

[Kevinroc]

Yeah, I doubt much of the readership felt that Mary Jane was the great love of Peter's life in 1986/early 1987. They weren't married because she was the big love interest of the series, she became the big love interest in the series because they were married. Before that, she was a supporting cast member, like Betty Brant.

I wonder how true that is. Kevin Feige said in this issue that when he thinks of the "classic relationship" for Peter Parker, he thinks of MJ. Considering Feige was born in 1973, he'd have been around 14 when they were married.

Edit: I'm curious if he thinks that because they were married when he was around 14 or if he thinks that because of the Spider-Man comics he read when he was younger than that.

[Lee]

Fans of the two constantly asked about them at conventions. Stan first revealed he was marrying them at one when asked if it were a possibility by a fan. Mary Jane as a love interest always had her supporters. Don't speak for those fans please, you weren't there.

Also, why do you act like MJ hadn't been a love interest before the marriage? She and Peter were serious in the 70s kid, not to mention in the newspaper comics, she never really took a long-term break compared to her 616 version and was featured as a near continuous romantic interest. The readership around that time would have probably grown up reading daily comics with the impression MJ was very much the love interest.

The newspaper strip was irrelevant to the comic books. They each did their own thing and their continuity didn't align. The decision to have them married in the comic book at the same time was an editorially mandated publicity stunt.

[David Walton]

Yeah, I doubt much of the readership felt that Mary Jane was the great love of Peter's life in 1986/early 1987. They weren't married because she was the big love interest of the series, she became the big love interest in the series because they were married. Before that, she was a supporting cast member, like Betty Brant.

ASM 259 is actually what I regard as the major turning point for 80s fans, the big heart to heart Pete and MJ have where she reveals her troubled family history.

Funny thing is, DeFalco's intent was to build up the Pete/MJ relationship and then have her ditch him at the altar because of her issues, but I think the bond established there was just too strong to overcome and eventually even DeFalco was sold on it.

Post-marriage, I think it's impossible to create an emotional connection with the readership that can substitute for Pete/MJ.

[Kevinroc]

People don't need to regurgitate Marvel Editorial's talking points to rationalize terrible comics.

[David Walton]

People don't need to regurgitate Marvel Editorial's talking points to rationalize terrible comics.

One of the biggest problems with OMD is that it permanently shifted the discussion away from the stories to the behind the scenes politics.

[NC_Yankee]

ASM 259 is actually what I regard as the major turning point for 80s fans, the big heart to heart Pete and MJ have where she reveals her troubled family history.

Funny thing is, DeFalco's intent was to build up the Pete/MJ relationship and then have her ditch him at the altar because of her issues, but I think the bond established there was just too strong to overcome and eventually even DeFalco was sold on it.

Post-marriage, I think it's impossible to create an emotional connection with the readership that can substitute for Pete/MJ.

I am certainly pro MJ but one way to create an emotional connection is with good stories. There have been plenty of good stories without MJ so it is not the end of Amazing if she is not there. But the so-called “House of Ideas” like Hollywood is all out of ideas. Here are some of the new ones: Gold Goblin: Turning Norman into a hero ( we saw that already with Otto), Goblin Queen: Same concept as Lady Octopus and Francine. Bringing back Gwen yet again. Not to mention putting Peter on trial for her death while her killer ( Norman Osborn) is made a hero. Maybe the best comparison is this: We have had one excellent villain created in the 21st Century ( Mr. Negative), and compare that to Ditko: Otto, Norman, Mysterio and Electro to name a few.

[David Walton]

I am certainly pro MJ but one way to create an emotional connection is with good stories. There have been plenty of good stories without MJ so it is not the end of Amazing if she is not there. But the so-called “House of Ideas” like Hollywood is all out of ideas. Here are some of the new ones: Gold Goblin: Turning Norman into a hero ( we saw that already with Otto), Goblin Queen: Same concept as Lady Octopus and Francine. Bringing back Gwen yet again. Not to mention putting Peter on trial for her death while her killer ( Norman Osborn) is made a hero. Maybe the best comparison is this: We have had one excellent villain created in the 21st Century ( Mr. Negative), and compare that to Ditko: Otto, Norman, Mysterio and Electro to name a few.

Sure, good stories create emotional bonds, but I'd argue that no story, regardless of quality, can function as a replacement for the way readers connected with Pete/MJ.

It's not like Spider-Man comics have been bad post OMD, quite the opposite, the quality is still very much there. The problem is that whatever the creative teams accomplish they're essentially doing with one hand tied behind their back.

But that's just my perspective, of course. I know there are fans who connect with the post OMD status quo more.

[Matt Rat]

It's not like Spider-Man comics have been bad post OMD, quite the opposite, the quality is still very much there..

That's entirely subjective