Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 95
  1. #31
    Incredible Member James Cameron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    Where you live
    Posts
    980

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HollowSage View Post
    Well I apologize for wanting to discuss the real issue and a possible real solution. If you only want to complain about Disney then have fun grinding that axe.
    When was I complaining? I'm just reminding you what this thread is about. To try and minimize Marvel's role in this by saying it's an industry wide problem comes off as deflection because I was sharing an article specifically about why Marvel is worse in particular than other studios.
    love is the real "success."
    Free Palestine! 🇵🇸Ceasefire NOW!
    They/Them

  2. #32
    Incredible Member James Cameron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    Where you live
    Posts
    980

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    Since Marvel didn't directly hire these ppl I can hardly blame them when all these issues are all due to the VFX companies' incompetence. They're the ones who are underbidding and over promising what they can do for these film studios. With one stroke they can choose to solve their problems by demanding better contracts that would make them hire more ppl. If that isn't an option then all VFX artists in the film industry needs to strike, form a union or quit. They're barking up the wrong tree if they are blaming Marvel when it should be the company that directly hires them.
    It can't be both? The article literally explains why Marvel is worse to work with than other studios. And it has nothing to do with "over promising."
    love is the real "success."
    Free Palestine! 🇵🇸Ceasefire NOW!
    They/Them

  3. #33
    Niffleheim
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    9,748

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cameron View Post
    It can't be both? The article literally explains why Marvel is worse to work with than other studios. And it has nothing to do with "over promising."
    It is mismanagement of the highest order running a business in such a way that an employer doesn't foresee or predict what these vfs artists go through and plan in future to improve their working experience by asking for better contracts and hiring more vfx artists instead of letting it repeatedly happen again and again.
    "Dedra Meero is not just a woman in a men’s world, but a fascist in a world of fascists.” - Denise Gough

  4. #34
    Incredible Member James Cameron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    Where you live
    Posts
    980

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    It is mismanagement of the highest order running a business in such a way that an employer doesn't foresee or predict what these vfs artists go through and plan in future to improve their working experience by asking for better contracts and hiring more vfx artists instead of letting it repeatedly happen again and again.
    Sounds like there are many people who are responsible and the very system is flawed at its core. And Marvel is not making it any easier
    love is the real "success."
    Free Palestine! 🇵🇸Ceasefire NOW!
    They/Them

  5. #35

    Default

    If one landscaping service offers to mow a lawn for $200 with a crew of 2 people, and I offer to mow the same lawn for $100 with a crew of one…I just fucked myself up, not the person who gave me the job.

  6. #36
    Incredible Member James Cameron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    Where you live
    Posts
    980

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch of Coconuts View Post
    If one landscaping service offers to mow a lawn for $200 with a crew of 2 people, and I offer to mow the same lawn for $100 with a crew of one…I just fucked myself up, not the person who gave me the job.
    Did yall only read the first paragraph or ... ?
    love is the real "success."
    Free Palestine! 🇵🇸Ceasefire NOW!
    They/Them

  7. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cameron View Post
    Did yall only read the first paragraph or ... ?
    I did.

    It seems you didn’t read the parts about the VFX houses bidding on the projects or the “this isn’t just a Disney problem” parts, though.

    It’s an industry problem. The VFX houses need to be able to leverage their value better. And that kinda starts with not undercutting each other, as well as other things.
    Last edited by Bunch of Coconuts; 07-29-2022 at 12:15 PM.

  8. #38
    Incredible Member James Cameron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    Where you live
    Posts
    980

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch of Coconuts View Post
    I did.

    It seems you didn’t read the parts about the VFX houses bidding on the projects or the “this isn’t just a Disney problem” parts, though.

    It’s an industry problem. The VFX houses need to be able to leverage their value better. And that kinda starts with not undercutting each other, as well as other things.
    Still a Disney problem, and there were plenty of other noteworthy parts of the article, such as:

    Some of the problems I mentioned are universal to every show and every project. But you end up doing less overtime on other shows. You end up being able to push back more on the directors. When they say something like, “Hey, I want this,” you can be like, “This doesn’t make sense.” Not every client has the bullying power of Marvel.
    The other issue is, when we’re in postproduction, we don’t have a director of photography involved. So we’re coming up with the shots a lot of the time. It causes a lot of incongruity. A good example of what happens in these scenarios is the battle scene at the end of Black Panther. The physics are completely off. Suddenly, the characters are jumping around, doing all these crazy moves like action figures in space. Suddenly, the camera is doing these motions that haven’t happened in the rest of the movie. It all looks a bit cartoony. It has broken the visual language of the film.

    Things need to change on two ends of the spectrum. Marvel needs to train its directors on working with visual effects and have a better vision out of the gate. The studio needs to hold its directors’ feet to the fire more to commit to what they want. The other thing is unionization. There is a growing movement to do that, because it would help make sure that the VFX houses can’t take bids without having to consider what the impacts would be. Because a lot of the time, it’s like, you get to work on a Marvel show, and you’ll work on that for cheaper just because it’s cool.
    The main problem is most of Marvel’s directors aren’t familiar with working with visual effects. A lot of them have just done little indies at the Sundance Film Festival and have never worked with VFX. They don’t know how to visualize something that’s not there yet, that’s not on set with them. So Marvel often starts asking for what we call “final renders.” As we’re working through a movie, we’ll send work-in-progress images that are not pretty but show where we’re at. Marvel often asks for them to be delivered at a much higher quality very early on, and that takes a lot of time. Marvel does that because its directors don’t know how to look at the rough images early on and make judgment calls. But that is the way the industry has to work. You can’t show something super pretty when the basics are still being fleshed out.
    This thread is not about this "industry problem." None of this is breakthrough news. The thread is about how Marvel/Disney in particular are aggravating this industry problem. If yall wanted to talk specifically about this problem as a whole we could make a new thread, but it is VERY clear in the article that a lot of artists have grievances specifically with Marvel and tend to avoid working for them. So my intention was to discuss how they are making it worse.
    love is the real "success."
    Free Palestine! 🇵🇸Ceasefire NOW!
    They/Them

  9. #39

    Default

    Saying “ this happens with other companies but Disney is the worst” doesn’t mean anything. By what objective measurement are they the worst? 1%? In that case, it’s a **** show to focus on just Disney, because you’re letting so much other stuff just slide because “lol they ain’t Disney”.

    The parts you felt the need to quote again even admit the VFX industry needs to unionize, and basically said “Marvel just needs to hire experienced directors.” So your own damn source even admits it’s an industry problem.

    Just admit you like to grind your axe against Disney. At least you’d be honest.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,015

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cameron View Post
    This thread is not about this "industry problem." None of this is breakthrough news. The thread is about how Marvel/Disney in particular are aggravating this industry problem. If yall wanted to talk specifically about this problem as a whole we could make a new thread, but it is VERY clear in the article that a lot of artists have grievances specifically with Marvel and tend to avoid working for them. So my intention was to discuss how they are making it worse.
    Cool. So we're just supposed to pretend that Disney is the sole culprit and ignore any actual way to improve the situation?

  11. #41
    Incredible Member James Cameron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    Where you live
    Posts
    980

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch of Coconuts View Post
    Saying “ this happens with other companies but Disney is the worst” doesn’t mean anything. By what objective measurement are they the worst? 1%? In that case, it’s a **** show to focus on just Disney, because you’re letting so much other stuff just slide because “lol they ain’t Disney”.

    The parts you felt the need to quote again even admit the VFX industry needs to unionize, and basically said “Marvel just needs to hire experienced directors.” So your own damn source even admits it’s an industry problem.

    Just admit you like to grind your axe against Disney. At least you’d be honest.
    Lmao who would be dishonest about something like that? None of that is what I'm saying. I shared an article and inferred my own opinion on it, but folks keep talking about this "industry problem." Like DUH it's an industry problem, that's not why I made the thread, unless this is the first time yall have ever heard about it. It's really not that deep, and I've already clarified my point several times now. Also I've been talking about how Disney has exploited VFX artists since they are un-unionized since I joined this website, yall keep mentioning the solution is unionizing like I'm somehow against that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Cool. So we're just supposed to pretend that Disney is the sole culprit and ignore any actual way to improve the situation?
    Literally when did I say that? You know it's okay to criticize the studio that makes movies you like, right? Or don't? No one's asking either way?
    love is the real "success."
    Free Palestine! 🇵🇸Ceasefire NOW!
    They/Them

  12. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cameron View Post
    Lmao who would be dishonest about something like that? None of that is what I'm saying. I shared an article and inferred my own opinion on it, but folks keep talking about this "industry problem." Like DUH it's an industry problem, that's not why I made the thread, unless this is the first time yall have ever heard about it. It's really not that deep, and I've already clarified my point several times now. Also I've been talking about how Disney has exploited VFX artists since they are un-unionized since I joined this website, yall keep mentioning the solution is unionizing like I'm somehow against that.
    The article you brought up and keep reemphasizing states it’s not just “a Disney problem” and admits a large part of the problem begins with the actual VFX houses.

    It’s your hyper focus on Disney that is very telling.

  13. #43
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    With the Orishas
    Posts
    12,945

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch of Coconuts View Post
    If one landscaping service offers to mow a lawn for $200 with a crew of 2 people, and I offer to mow the same lawn for $100 with a crew of one…I just fucked myself up, not the person who gave me the job.
    My thoughts exactly.

  14. #44
    Incredible Member James Cameron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    Where you live
    Posts
    980

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch of Coconuts View Post
    The article you brought up and keep reemphasizing states it’s not just “a Disney problem” and admits a large part of the problem begins with the actual VFX houses.

    It’s your hyper focus on Disney that is very telling.
    Holy ****, this is a mind boggling conversation. It's so much simpler than you're making it out to be. Of course the article states that, because it's true, no one can deny it. But the article isn't about working on VFX in Hollywood, it's a testimonial from an artist about working for Marvel in particular. This article and others I've seen to me give the impression that Disney/Marvel is one of the worse studios to work for, because this article was written about Marvel! Clearly this person who wrote it hasn't only worked on Marvel films and isn't just giving a tell all about what it's like doing digital effects in movies nowadays, it's about Marvel and Disney's practices.

    This is really weird. I'm not hiding anything. Of course I don't like Disney, I don't really like any mega corporation. Of course it's an industry problem. Maybe if you disagree with the article or my opinions you could say that instead of deflecting like saying "it's an industry problem!" "just admit you hate Disney"

    Like...obviously?
    love is the real "success."
    Free Palestine! 🇵🇸Ceasefire NOW!
    They/Them

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,015

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cameron View Post
    This thread is not about this "industry problem." None of this is breakthrough news. The thread is about how Marvel/Disney in particular are aggravating this industry problem. If yall wanted to talk specifically about this problem as a whole we could make a new thread, but it is VERY clear in the article that a lot of artists have grievances specifically with Marvel and tend to avoid working for them. So my intention was to discuss how they are making it worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by James Cameron View Post
    Literally when did I say that? You know it's okay to criticize the studio that makes movies you like, right? Or don't? No one's asking either way?
    You did. Read your own words.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •