Wrestling PostMania Reborn

[lancerman]

People are looking at it wrong though.

With Undertaker, yeah people have lost streak matches and it didn't hurt them, but this was before Undertaker left after Mania and people were stuck on the show with their tail between their leg. Edge had beaten Undertaker several times before their Mania match. Batista got to feud with him and have draws and look good against him after their Mania match. Same with Henry and Orton. And prior to Orton the streak really wasn't what it was. Then in 2009 the Undertaker wrestled Shawn and left after Mania and didn't come back until ironically the time he wrestled CM Punk after his heel turn. Shawn also was gone after that Mania. Same thing happened the next year, and guess what, Shawn retired after. After that HHH layed Taker out at Mania 27 and he was gone until the next year. HHH was gone after Mania too until, again ironically, HHH came out of retirement to beat Punk when he was hot and then go back on sabbatical until Mania. Then they both repeated that. Then the year after Punk, Lesnar beat Taker, and he wasn't left and didn't even use the heat from it until SummerSlam.

So no Punk was the only guy who wrestled Taker while he was part time, and wasn't a partimer himself. He was the only guy who jobbed to Taker and had Taker not around to feud with after the big show. And keep in mind in 09 and 11 he was white hot and a guy came out of their rest period post a Streak match and beat him, cutting out his legs.

Punk is unique in that.

Now lets move onto Rock. Miz and R-Truth lost to Rock and Cena, but they were glorified midcard heels losing to the two biggest babyfaces in the company. Cena lost to Rock, but it was part of a giant 3 year program to put Cena over. CM Punk was a main eventer, he turned heel to face the Rock. He sacrificed merchandise sales to be a heel for that. Rock got to beat him twice, Punk never generated heat again, Rock loses to Cena at Mania, Punk loses to Undertaker. Bot guys are gone, and Punk turned heel and took to big losses with both guys out of the picture to even salvage something storyline wise. He got the short end of the stick.

Now lets move on to Brock. Cena beat Brock. HHH traded wins with Brock for no reason. HHH gets to leave and take a break off camera after his first loss to Brock. Then he gets to beat him. Then loses again and takes another break. Punk has to lose to Brock, and THEN Brock goes and Punk is once again left on his own with a loss in a major program, on his own to salvage something of his persona out of it, since that loss Punk was stagnant in the company until he left. Really go back and watch that period, Punk lost a lot of momentum from that.

Now keep in mind these all occurred at the Royal Rumble, WrestleMania, and SummerSlam consecutively. So at the end of this Punk was left in the river without a paddle, and the light at the end of the title was some midcard match at Mania against Triple H after him doing nothing for 6 months. Now add the injuries on top of that. Now add every other issue he had from that period from Vince shooting down his ideas and giving them to HHH, HHH not respecting him and not so much as giving him a call when he lost a movie role. Add that the dude was working the crazy Cena style main event schedule to prove himself for some reward they had no intention of giving him. Add the frustration we all had watching the Batista debacle and the Daniel Bryan depush last year before they finally got behind it the right way. Add in the fact that this dude wanted to leave 3 years ago and only came back because Vince begged him and swore things would be different. Add in that nobody was talking about how the network would effect ppv payouts. Add in that fact that Punk's a big enough name to have a real career if he left.

I don't blame him for feeling the way he did. He didn't do anything wrong. WWE has their stupid independent contractor thing so he could quit whenever he wanted. Which by the way, he's right, it's completely illegal and WWE would lose in a heartbeat if anyone sued him on it. Then their entire business model would be screwed. Then WWE tried to withhold royalties which they made based of his name. These aren't exactly new things that people complain about.

[wjowski]

I'm honestly just getting really freaking tired of any former worker that dares to criticize the Holy Empire of WWE being referred to as just being 'bitter' or 'whiny'. Quite frankly as far as I'm concerned this interview proves what I've figured all along about the place being run by corrupt, borderline-criminal shitbags.

[Royal]

I'm honestly just getting really freaking tired of any former worker that dares to criticize the Holy Empire of WWE being referred to as just being 'bitter' or 'whiny'. Quite frankly as far as I'm concerned this interview proves what I've figured all along about the place being run by corrupt, borderline-criminal shitbags.

Right!?

Dudes making Disney money and living the dream and some of you guys still think he wants to come back.

Screw that!!

[BigLbo]

Well as Justin Credible posted in a video , as a rookie he was taught to respect the veterans BIG TIME. That if he walks backstage before he works he will walk over even now and shake the boys hands and if he doesn't know the people introduce himself. He said more rookies need to try and do this because veterans will view this as a sign of respect.

In a case where guys clearly didn't realize they had a problem was the Young Bucks. Both brothers were basically called out by Rob Van Dam a couple of years ago when he detailed that veterans like him want the young guys to talk to them and ask questions. To ask to see what they need to work on and how the Bucks basically wouldn't speak to him the entire time and never really seemed to ask for any advice.

The Bucks would go online and rip Rob Van Dam saying he was lying. People may have believed the Bucks until they had a WWE tryout where they basically walked by Booker T and never spoke to him. Then as Booker claimed one sit down on his jacket and wouldn't speak to him. It was odd , silly behavior in a way. It didn't help the Bucks get a WWE job for sure due to how they seemed to interact with veterans.



Raven came along in the 1980's , so his mind set is what he taught Punk and groomed into him in a way. RESPECT THE BUSINESS....RESPECT THE VETERANS BEFORE YOU. More often than not , a lot of respect isn't shown the older guys as I detailed with the Bucks case.

not really, they just said RVD had his own dressing room so they didn't think they were supposed to go knock on his door. if the bucks have worked as long in japan as they have i think they know how to show respect to veterans.

He's kind of right though. He was the best promo in the company as a full time wrestler. You could maybe argue that Rock was better, sort of, it was mostly nostalgia. Heyman is a manager, so.. Maybe Cena, but he's less consistent than Punk. As far as in ring, Daniel Bryan and Punk were the two top guys when he left. It's really not even close. And keep in mind, Punk already being established was getting a lot more time to work than Bryan, so Punk was having the more consistent output for the last several years. He's definitely the best all around full time wrestler from a pure talent perspective.

that's all subject to taste, especially the bolded part but it's one thing to think you're the best, saying nobody could touch you or lace your boots is something else. if he was the best(and i don't think he was) or did have the best match(and i don't think he did) it's not by a wide margin.

I would think the bigger problem was "I almost died because of a staph infection" then "I was a bigger draw than the Rock". You could argue CM Punk working 10-11 months a year drew more than Rock working 2 months a year.

The irony of ironies is this could be the last push to get HHH/Steph out of control of the WWE. HHH losing his shot at running the WWE before it even really begins.

not if you listened to his interview.

I just remembered the last thing I agree with Punk on; the term "pipebomb" sticking around for "epic" promos is stupid and annoying as hell. After Punk's "pipebomb" promo, nobody said "OMG, that was his Terry Funk 'Forever' promo" or "this was his 'Cane Dewey'!" or "this was his 'Austin 3:16'!"

The reason I remembered that is because I never thought Punk was anything special when it came to promos. I don't know if I've said this before here but any internet wrestling fan could've cut that promo and it didn't further the feud with Cena for Money In The Bank. Plus, it had nothing to do with Punk's role as leader of the Nexus and that storyline was ditched immediately afterwards. That's not what I call good.

As Dave Meltzer said, "nobody ever came off looking worse after losing to Undertaker or The Rock". I didn't see Punk as damaged goods at all because he lost to big-name, high-profile guys who everyone knew he would lose to anyway.

Hence why I think he's whining.



Miz and R-Truth shouldn't have been blamed but you can't use that as an example of the Rock not being a draw either; that stupid "No Confidence in Triple H" storyline made Miz and R-Truth tertiary players in their own feud. Even people like Christian got more mic time.

i feel the same but the response his mic work gets can't be denied so yeah, he is something special on the mic regardless of how we feel. to me he's so not larger than life on the mic. i've never got his appeal but it is obviously there.

[Guest_1001]

I'm honestly just getting really freaking tired of any former worker that dares to criticize the Holy Empire of WWE being referred to as just being 'bitter' or 'whiny'. Quite frankly as far as I'm concerned this interview proves what I've figured all along about the place being run by corrupt, borderline-criminal shitbags.

There's a right way and a wrong way to criticise. Punk did it the wrong way for a lot of stuff. For example, what am I supposed to think when he says "they made me hate what I love" (wrestling) but also describes the WWE as a "pit-stop" and was so desperate to do some acting? That doesn't sound like someone who loves wrestling.

He talks endlessly about how great he was and how he never got a fair shake. No two ways about it, that's bitter and whiny.

As a fan, I've known the WWE is a hell-hole for years and I'm actually just disappointed that it's taken CM Punk speaking out about his injuries to get some attention (when so many others have too). So yeah, the WWE's horrible. Doesn't mean CM Punk isn't a whiner.

[BigLbo]

There's a right way and a wrong way to criticise. Punk did it the wrong way for a lot of stuff. For example, what am I supposed to think when he says "they made me hate what I love" (wrestling) but also describes the WWE as a "pit-stop" and was so desperate to do some acting? That doesn't sound like someone who loves wrestling.

He talks endlessly about how great he was and how he never got a fair shake. No two ways about it, that's bitter and whiny.

As a fan, I've known the WWE is a hell-hole for years and I'm actually just disappointed that it's taken CM Punk speaking out about his injuries to get some attention (when so many others have too). So yeah, the WWE's horrible. Doesn't mean CM Punk isn't a whiner.

YES, i hear that.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

not really, they just said RVD had his own dressing room so they didn't think they were supposed to go knock on his door. if the bucks have worked as long in japan as they have i think they know how to show respect to veterans.

So that picture with Booker T is from 2014 ? Maybe they learned to actually interact with veterans after people came out against them . Also I don't think beyond Hogan , that TNA had separate locker rooms. (WCW they did...because WCW ran a lotta big arenas etc etc)

[alex]

Remember when Punk beat all 3 members of the shield in handicap match?
HHH worthy that was.
Edit: And i think we are glossing over one of the more amazing things.
He said he would turn stuff down, orton might turn stuff down, but CENA turned stuff down.
With all the horrible stuff Cena has been involved in, can you imagine how bad the stuff he said no to was?

[alex]

So that picture with Booker T is from 2014 ? Maybe they learned to actually interact with veterans after people came out against them . Also I don't think beyond Hogan , that TNA had separate locker rooms. (WCW they did...because WCW ran a lotta big arenas etc etc)

Not shaking hands for the young bucks is living the gimmick brother.

[lancerman]

Remember when Punk beat all 3 members of the shield in handicap match?
HHH worthy that was.
Edit: And i think we are glossing over one of the more amazing things.
He said he would turn stuff down, orton might turn stuff down, but CENA turned stuff down.
With all the horrible stuff Cena has been involved in, can you imagine how bad the stuff he said no to was?

No he said him and Cena disagreed with stuff. But Punk listed many examples of things he didn't want to do, that he ended up doing anyways. Vince always had the final say. Maybe a talent could go up to a writer and say "this is crap, I'm not doing it" and hopefully they either change it before it gets to Vince, or Vince agrees with them. But nobody is overruling Vince.

Austin got in a stalemate with Vince, and Austin walked out before Vince gave in. Rock lost to whoever Vince asked him to lose to. At the end of the day you can disagree with whatever you want, but if Vince says do it, you better do it. Now maybe a disagreement will be so miniscule to Vince that he'd rather just give in than rock the boat over something that won't matter much a week later, but that's it. But if it matters to Vince it's happening and Cena ain't gonna change that.

[PocketfulofKryptonite]

Remember when Punk beat all 3 members of the shield in handicap match?
HHH worthy that was.
Edit: And i think we are glossing over one of the more amazing things.
He said he would turn stuff down, orton might turn stuff down, but CENA turned stuff down.
With all the horrible stuff Cena has been involved in, can you imagine how bad the stuff he said no to was?

He wasn't actually meant to win that handicap match but because Cena and Bryan also lost they opened the show with that match so they had a memorable start even if they had a disappointing finish at the end of the night. So, I don't think Punk can be blamed for them changing the booking at the last minute, particularly when he put over Reigns the next month on RAW, I don't think even he would have lobbied to win that one the way he did.

[Guest81]

He wasn't actually meant to win that handicap match but because Cena and Bryan also lost they opened the show with that match so they had a memorable start even if they had a disappointing finish at the end of the night. So, I don't think Punk can be blamed for them changing the booking at the last minute, particularly when he put over Reigns the next month on RAW, I don't think even he would have lobbied to win that one the way he did.

cool to know your involved in the bookings

[Ronin705]

No he said him and Cena disagreed with stuff. But Punk listed many examples of things he didn't want to do, that he ended up doing anyways. Vince always had the final say. Maybe a talent could go up to a writer and say "this is crap, I'm not doing it" and hopefully they either change it before it gets to Vince, or Vince agrees with them. But nobody is overruling Vince.

Austin got in a stalemate with Vince, and Austin walked out before Vince gave in. Rock lost to whoever Vince asked him to lose to. At the end of the day you can disagree with whatever you want, but if Vince says do it, you better do it. Now maybe a disagreement will be so miniscule to Vince that he'd rather just give in than rock the boat over something that won't matter much a week later, but that's it. But if it matters to Vince it's happening and Cena ain't gonna change that.

To this day, I don't think I've heard more than one story (Bully Ray talking about how Rock turned down lines in a promo or Nash shutting Rock down to get his shit in, but that's klique biz so I don't count it) about Rock using stroke against others. He always jobbed, and never seemed to give a damn about using stroke against Vince or the booking.

[Guest81]

It's funny how people are agreeing with Punk and how dare he have to job to the Undertaker, Rock, or Cena, like it killed Punks credibility. I'm sure your the same ones who agree with Jericho when he says wins and losses don't matter, and the same people who rip Hogan for never putting anyone over. Hypocrites

[alex]

It's funny how people are agreeing with Punk and how dare he have to job to the Undertaker, Rock, or Cena, like it killed Punks credibility. I'm sure your the same ones who agree with Jericho when he says wins and losses don't matter, and the same people who rip Hogan for never putting anyone over. Hypocrites

There aren't a lot of people saying that, and it's actually not the same situation.
Punk's issue seemed to be putting over part timers, he put over guys who were full time.
Hogan was unwilling to do that.