2022 - Marvel vs DC - The Difference????

[gambit2051]

I am not sure if there is a Thread discussing the state of the rivalry between Marvel and DC over here...mostly bc Marvel is honestly so far out in front that it is not a contest and so over on the DC forum I have kept track of the treads asking what is wrong with DC and how to fix it...only to get the usual "what are you talking about? look at Batman sales. DC is fine"...and anyone saying that is unwilling to see what is happening at DC.

The reason I am over here asking is that I am wondering Why do the Writers, Artists, Inkers, Letterers, etc...(from here after simply refered to as Writers...sorry but it is just easier lol) choose to work for Marvel over DC? because, honestly, either Marvel just Pays a lot better and has an Amazing Atmosphere (but they are a publisher still owned Ike Perlmutter, and possibly the largest side of Marvel that he can touch due to Disney buying Marvel and cutting him off from Marvel Studios...I hate having to see Disney in a good light for that, but that was all the previous CEO and he was incredible...esp compared to who came before and After...woof...anyways, my point is that I DO NOT Believe that to be that case), or DC Management must be THAT bad...

Just look at the "stable" of Writers and it is not even a fight...honestly, I was going to list off a few for comparison but it Depressed me too much that DC only has a couple of Quality Writers right now...and even they only seem to enjoy writing Elseworld stories more than trying to re-establish an interesting Character Universe...and based off of how things have gone since Flashpoint...I do not blame them.

So...why does it appear that Marvel (and Image, Dark Horse, IDW, and Boom) are all FAR more Attractive an Employer than DC?

And why is it that this comparison is not used more when discussing the Difference between Companies when things are especially not going well? Is it simply "Good Sales fix everything"?

Or is it REALLY due to the move to a digital medium that was inevitable 2 decades ago (you have been able to download series illegally for over 20 years now everyone...and it is amazing at how much some people that do that spend on the Trades...also, there are reasons there are so many Hardcover Trade Releases now for 5-6 issue runs simply called Volumes...and a Curated looking presentation...have you seen the Quality of some of the Hardcover Releases like Black Hammer Library Edition? Exceptional)...sorry sorry...ADHD right there, which I am sure many of you are aware of in some form as well lolol. We enjoy looking at beautiful art and stories pulled from our imaginations...we all have some ADHD in us loololol.

I hope I will get some more thoughtful responses here than I would expect over on the DC thread....though I bet I will get less lol.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

No difference. I just find that both companies go in waves. Marvel will be up for a few years, then comes the down swing where DC takes over for a few years. Kind of like the Surplus/Recession waves of a business cycle.

[Force de Phenix]

Disney is the major factor. Disney revived a "dead" franchise, Star Wars, that was just living off of the legacy of its first trilogy. No one asked for the new stuff, like no one is asking for the Simpsons, but Disney isn't going to let all of their IP's go to waste when they want to make money from their investment.

The Sony, Fox, and Universal deals were the best thing to happen to other Marvel characters. If Disney had all of those IP's, we would never have gotten to see the Avengers, and all these "d-listers", "z-listers", etc., or a more rounded out world of products. The thing people criticized Disney for is what made the Avengers and company a thing, and what saved Marvel comics.

If Disney had the other IP's, we would see something similar to what happens with Batman, but in Marvel. Batman sells, and really well, so it's an unnecessary risk to invest too much in other characters. Disney's only option were the "risk characters."

I wouldn't say working for Disney/Marvel is the best, but if someone wants to work for these IP's they don't have a lot of choices. Didn't Bendis go from Marvel to DC? He was an interesting writer. The Perlmutter paradox is that he wanted more inhumans and made them all BIPOC and he was the CEO during the time comic book fans were crying "they're shoving diversity down our throats."

[cranger]

only to get the usual "what are you talking about? look at Batman sales. DC is fine"...and anyone saying that is unwilling to see what is happening at DC.
...

I hope I will get some more thoughtful responses here than I would expect over on the DC thread....though I bet I will get less lol.

Almost everyone on the DC forums is complaining there are too many Batbooks and not enough effort being put in to advertise other titles.

Everything else you state seems to be based on a faulty premise. Where is there any evidence that talent is preferring Marvel over DC? (not even going to pretend that the other publishers are attracting anyone aside from the creator owned options).

DC has problems and things that need to improve, but attracting talent is not it.

[Omega Alpha]

But is Marvel all that attractive in the first place? Right now, it's basically dominated by writers who weren't that big and needed to make a name for themselves when they joined. The most recognizable names in comics, with a few exceptions, are not really interested in working with it anymore.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

Disney is the major factor. Disney revived a "dead" franchise, Star Wars, that was just living off of the legacy of its first trilogy. No one asked for the new stuff, like no one is asking for the Simpsons, but Disney isn't going to let all of their IP's go to waste when they want to make money from their investment.

The Sony, Fox, and Universal deals were the best thing to happen to other Marvel characters. If Disney had all of those IP's, we would never have gotten to see the Avengers, and all these "d-listers", "z-listers", etc., or a more rounded out world of products. The thing people criticized Disney for is what made the Avengers and company a thing, and what saved Marvel comics.

If Disney had the other IP's, we would see something similar to what happens with Batman, but in Marvel. Batman sells, and really well, so it's an unnecessary risk to invest too much in other characters. Disney's only option were the "risk characters."

I wouldn't say working for Disney/Marvel is the best, but if someone wants to work for these IP's they don't have a lot of choices. Didn't Bendis go from Marvel to DC? He was an interesting writer. The Perlmutter paradox is that he wanted more inhumans and made them all BIPOC and he was the CEO during the time comic book fans were crying "they're shoving diversity down our throats."

Movies didn't help with comics sales much if at all.

[The BaRoN]

DC right now is Marvel 2014, the desperate need to replace heroes with diverse replacements.

It didn’t work for marvel (Alonso getting fired spectacularly) and it won’t work for DC, people love the originals and it’s unfair on these new characters to be expected to replace them just so DC/Marvel can get a news article on entertainment weekly or the view.

Diverse characters deserve their own identity, it’s lazy writing and marketing to just make someone gay or bisexual after all these years and then throw them back into obscurity once the media hype is gone.

Looking back, Marvel replaced Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Ironman, wolverine, Spider-Man, all at the same time and wondered why sales tanked.

[skyvolt2000]

Looking back, Marvel replaced Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Ironman, wolverine, Spider-Man, all at the same time and wondered why sales tanked.

Actually Thor sold BETTER under Jane for a good long time and has improved since Odinson came back.

Excluding Bruce Banner-Odinson, Tony, Logan, Peter & Steve were around in some form.

Where were all these FITS being thrown when Doom was calling himself Ironman (Riri wasn't).
Winter Soldier as Cap America?
Dr Oct as Spider Man?

Diverse characters deserve their own identity, it’s lazy writing and marketing to just make someone gay or bisexual after all these years and then throw them back into obscurity once the media hype is gone.

Well when Marvel and DC have TRIED original diverse characters -who are the FIRST folks to throw fits about it?

Who are the first to look for any and all excuses to NOT try or read those books?
Who are the first to THROW blame on sales or their favorites NOT getting page time? Rogue fans HATED Synch in that X-Men book.
Who screams these books should NOT exist?

[skyvolt2000]

Movies didn't help with comics sales much if at all.

Movies generally help trade sales.

Trade sales for those who actually have trades.

Black Panther trades dominated Amazon for 3 years due to that movie.

The Boys, Invincible, Umbrella Academy and Locke and Key saw sales boost.


The REAL reason it does not help comic books is because of where they are located at.

NOBODY who is NOT already going to a comic book store is going to HUNT down one when Amazon and others have those trades.


Another reason is the folks on tv and movies tend to be the ones NOT welcomed in comics. Especially those of color or sexuality.

Lets say DC did a Bumblebee movie.

DC wants a 100 page trade of the best stories starring these two like Marvel did with Monica, War Machine and Falcon.

Folks would be LYING if they could come up with 20 pages let alone 100.

Bumblebee has been around 50+ years. She has NOTHING not even an issue that saw her marry Herald. We don't even know what their daughter looks like.

[jwatson]

DC right now is Marvel 2014, the desperate need to replace heroes with diverse replacements.

It didn’t work for marvel (Alonso getting fired spectacularly) and it won’t work for DC, people love the originals and it’s unfair on these new characters to be expected to replace them just so DC/Marvel can get a news article on entertainment weekly or the view.

Diverse characters deserve their own identity, it’s lazy writing and marketing to just make someone gay or bisexual after all these years and then throw them back into obscurity once the media hype is gone.

Looking back, Marvel replaced Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Ironman, wolverine, Spider-Man, all at the same time and wondered why sales tanked.

It actually did work for Alonso and it wasn't lazy writing imo it was purposeful. You would have to be blind to the concept of how many far right people fell for the notion in real life that replacement theory was real and instead of introducing diverse characters with their own identity marvel played heavily into the concept of replacement and used it as a vehicle for what i call a false diversity push which on paper and just looking at it was doomed to failure. At least DC is keeping Bruce Wayne around and as batman while they diversify the line showing they can exist together but marvel went out of it's way to literal replace it's characters with diverse ones, even going so far as taking characters that already had their own identify like Sam wilson and erasing them to fit into what they were trying to accomplish. IMO once that movie money started coming marvel in the mid to late 2000s showed exactly who and what they were and while i don't encourage the firing of people i would not miss a single one that played a part in that or didn't speak up.

One only has to look at the material marvel definitely went backwards and used that as an excuse with the help from shops to say these kinds of characters are what is popular and the only thing that sells and successfully created that false narrative that diversity doesn't sell and pushed it over into their movies and pretty much every branch of the company imo and this is just from an observer viewpoint. I mean how many movies have marvel made? How many actually have diverse casts? I mean even jessica alba called them out recently. Now look at the comics. You couldn't rub together two people of color in this eternals crossover.

It has gotten somewhat better but it's still worse than it was before the company wide decimation of diversity. Again JMHO

[skyvolt2000]

So...why does it appear that Marvel (and Image, Dark Horse, IDW, and Boom) are all FAR more Attractive an Employer than DC?

The majority of writers at Marvel are the SAME at DC and those other companies.

A lot of it comes down to the following...

1) characters being used

DC is mainly Batman-guess what a LOT of writers will most likely NEVER get a shot at that line for a variety of reasons.
If the line is mainly Batman-that means a lot of other characters are NOT getting shots or will never see pitches. Which is why you got the mess known as Round Robin.

Marvel is now using it's Marvel Unlimited for new books as well.
Miles Morales is heading towards issue #50. When was the last time a DC teen sniffed #50? Tim Drake?
If Jaime Reyes was owned by Marvel-they would NOT be waiting till that movie was done to toss him into a book. They would Carol Danvers him to death.

2) How many writers already at DC are current or former CW or Cartoon Network or Adult Swim writers? How many are Young Adult writers already doing many DC projects?
How many writers are they getting from Milestone writing or Scott Snyder programs?

3) Ownership change-DC is still dealing with that and they are trying to salvage whatever 5G was instead of paying off all those creative teams with termination clauses. So it might not be until 2024 before they get the ship right.

[jwatson]

And just to add, the job was so well done during that 2005-2010 period specifically. I mean just looking at it objectively obama would have been campaigning early 2007 but would have been gaining traction as early as 2006, who thought with an upcoming campaign as such that it was the time to label something "civil war" and this is around the time mutants basically started to take the place of minorities in the MU before they were still very much aware of an treated as humans that were mutants. Then during said event you kill Black Goliath and all of the characters of color basically disappear except for the one prominent at the the time black couple who were welding on each other. Then to follow it up you jump straight into replacement. I mean i'm no detective but that's ALOT of coincidences to be happening at the time and a lot of insensitive ones at that.

And that all culminated with "lets put the brain of xavier into red skull so the nazi can control anyone and they have an excuse. let's go."

[Dreaded Porcupine]

The difference? Marvel has team books and DC doesn’t. Marvel has a variety of books and DC has all Batman and a few other books. No contest. Marvel is blowing the doors off of DC. DC needs to put the JSA back out which would level the playing field. Until then Marvel is so far in the lead that DC better get a telescope to see Marvel’s dust.

[Digifiend]

Miles Morales is heading towards issue #50. When was the last time a DC teen sniffed #50? Tim Drake?

No he isn't. Saladin Ahmed leaves with issue 42, so Miles Morales is probably going to relaunch with a new #1.

Tim hasn't had a solo book for some time, the one that's launching in September is his first for 11 years. Do Red Hood or Batgirl count?

[Orbus]

Movies didn't help with comics sales much if at all.

The big sales of jump the Marvel Now (2013) line wide relaunch was attributed to the success of the movies. In this case it was largely lapsed readers or readers that only read a handful of titles branching out to others...like you had fans that only read Spider-Man comics picking up Iron Man and Captain America because they liked those characters in the movies.

One thing that did attract new readers was Ms Marvel. Kamala and a lot of the wave of new diversity heroes like Miles Morales and Jane Foster did attract people who liked the movies but felt a bit daunted at the prospect of jumping into characters with decades of history but here was new characters they could get into Day one.

As someone else mentioned on this thread sales of Black Panther trades were huge in the wake of the movie (really Marvel should have had more BP related ongoings ready but at the time they seemed to concerned doing so would upset the comicsgate crowd) and the movie helped Carol Danvers get a decent bump in sales.

DC right now is Marvel 2014, the desperate need to replace heroes with diverse replacements.

It didn’t work for marvel (Alonso getting fired spectacularly) and it won’t work for DC, people love the originals and it’s unfair on these new characters to be expected to replace them just so DC/Marvel can get a news article on entertainment weekly or the view.

Diverse characters deserve their own identity, it’s lazy writing and marketing to just make someone gay or bisexual after all these years and then throw them back into obscurity once the media hype is gone.

Looking back, Marvel replaced Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Ironman, wolverine, Spider-Man, all at the same time and wondered why sales tanked.

Untrue. It was only natural that some readers would treat the end of Secret Wars as a jumping off point but the drop in sales during the All-New, All Different era wasn't anymore than comic books sales in general were falling and continue to fall as the industry dies. Thing is those diversity characters were still among Marvel's best sellers during this period. Ms Marvel, Miles Morales, Squirrel Girl were of course big sellers in digital and trade. Even stuff like Wolverine (Laura) and Totally Awesome Hulk were decently successful in these mediums and of course Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur sold huge amounts via book deals with Scholatic.

What happened is a lot of anti-diversity youtubers jumped on the narrative that Marvel's sales were tanking and that diversity was the the cause and they beat that to death. Truth is Marvel's sales were not tanking and if they were cancelling books of diversity characters that were selling in mediums that netted the company more money was surely not the answer. Any kind of integrity they had with this argument went out the water when they went after the Jane Foster Thor series which was not only selling phenomenally well in digital and trade but also in monthly singles. That's when I knew they were being disingenuous to support their bigoted agenda. This went on for years and eventually Marvel seemed to take the attitude that they could make this go away by cancelling some of their lesser selling diversity characters as a way to appease both sides...they paid a price for it. Sales didn't spike up and the anti-diversity crowd didn't go away. Marvel didn't do their usual strategy of having a bunch of new titles of a character that has a movie out when Black Panther was released and sales of previous Black Panther trades sky rocketed. They cancelled newly launched books like Iceman and Unstoppable Wasp that hadn't sold only for the trade sales to also be impressive. I think they regret capitulating to the comicsgate crowd and are correcting some of their mistakes and so they should.