10 things I don't like in the Superman franchise, past and present

[HsssH]

I saw a lot of complaints about taking a serum to gain Superman's powers. I think it worked in All-Star Superman because they tied it to the DNA level. It's probably too hokey that even a temporary gene expression modifier could work that drastically and that quickly without any real side effects, but it at least tapped into science fantasy. Plus, I liked how the movie made it that since Luthor had access to Superman's genome, he figured out a way to clone Superman and keep his bloodline running.

Good stuff. Maybe the take home for me is that sometimes even ideas we don't like can work out OK once in a while, and ideas we do like can be executed poorly.

I think that almost all of the stuff mentioned in this thread can (and sometimes does) work in the right context. Like, I don't have problems with us getting a flashback where Ma or Pa teach Clark some important lesson. Problem for me becomes when this is all we get with them. You know, maybe sometimes we should get some stories where they are average parents and don't teach much, or make completely stupid decisions that end up hurting Clark. But nah, they are perfect.

[ironman2978]

1. Getting rid of the secret identity. I am a huge fan of the mild mannered reporter disguise. I feel like removing it did a disservice to the character. Even making it an undervalued part of his identity doesn't help the mythos as a whole. I like when they allow Clark to be a reporter, talk to the people on the street and interact with the Bullpen. It helps enhance and make the character more interesting and stand out from other heroes. He is a middle class man who moved from the country/suburbs to the big city, that is such an fantastic concept that is heavily underutilized.

2. Focusing on Donner's take as the ideal of what Superman should be. I love Donner Superman and a fan of certain changes( The Superman symbol being a house of el crest, Smallville being in Kansas, Christopher Reeve Clark, etc). Especially the overly idea of making Superman this Christ like figure. Batman and other characters (Iron Man, Spidey, etc) has had so many actors, costumes, takes on the character done, that now it's easier for them to be versatile. I wish Superman was given that same benefit.

3. Keeping the trunks. I like artists bringing their own personal mark to this big character and making the costume unique and interesting. Don't get me wrong, I do like the classic Superman costume, but I feel like there's been an unhealthy hold that particular look has on the character

4. Bringing the Kents back. I was a fan of the Golden-Bronze age Superman so I preferred the Kents being dead and it removes the idea of Superman being overly dependent on his parents, also I don't think there has been anything interesting or substantial done with their characters since they were brought back.

5. I hate that inconsistency of Superman's power sometimes. People complain he's too powerful (Donner and JL movies) so the lower it to make other threats a challenge (MOS/BvS, JL season 1, etc). Then they complain he is too weak and they are doing a disservice to his character. I get that people want to see him as the top dog, but that are so many ways to do that. Trying to please everyone ends up pleasing no one.

6. The overuse of Zod and Lex in movies. I liked their take in tv shows but I felt since they were the first villains usually used in every new Superman movie, it's doesn't help the idea that Superman doesn't have an interesting rogues gallery when nothing could be further from the truth. I would love to see Parasite, Brainiac, Metallo, Mongul, etc on the big screen. I loved how they were handled in Smallville, Krypton and debatably Superman & Lois/Supergirl and I feel if the same amount of effort was put into the movies, they would be more loved and respected.

7. Superman being cartoonishly wholesome and the idea of him being the paragon of truth/ he can't have a tragic backstory. Superman should represent Hope and optimism but I would be annoyed if he just did over the top monologues, corny dad jokes and hokey speeches. His actions should inspire more than simply his words. Live Action Superman can be charismatic, humorous and a leader for the people but sometimes less is more depending on how it’s done. Words like positivity/ optimism are kind of simplistic to understand why he is a symbol of hope. To me, Superman is person who even when his back is against the wall and everything looks bleak, will keep on fighting. Someone who believes in people 1st and just trying to do good in the world and help people, who can't help themselves.

"Hope" has more or less fell into meaningless buzzword than doing something substantial.When it comes to Superman I always believe in this:

His symbol shouldn't stand for hope. It should be a call to action and self-affirmation.

8. Superman always being the fodder to prove another hero's strength or how cool they are.

9. The misconception that the only way Clark being relatable by just overly focus on his human/Kryptonian side (Alive Kents, "Clark is who I am, Superman is what I do", Clark learning he was adopted at 17/Kryptonian at 28, the only effective Superman costume is homemade just for the "my ma made it for me" moment, etc). I feel like that kind of thinking weakens more than strengthens the character. I liked the idea of Clark embracing his immigrants root (being a child of African immigrants myself). Superman is a science fiction concept and can allow for multiple . Martin Pasko put it well

Superman related most closely to my personal experience. I was adopted from another country at a very young age. My adoptive parents were much older than those of most of my contemporaries. And whether through dotage or any reality, my parents invested upon me from a very early age that I was different -- in a positive sense. At least they tried to spin it as positive. Today, we'd say I was a geek. I was precocious. I had an IQ that I won't quote, but it was very high. I was constantly getting this message that I had to use my gifts for something positive and understand that I was a little different from other kids. That was all subliminal, but you can see the direct parallels to the character, obviously.

I don't know how helpful it is on an overview of Superman. I do know that I see the character very differently, and as a result I've handled the character very differently than some of the writers I worked with and most of the writers who have handled the character. Most of the writers think of Clark Kent as the real person and Superman as this construct. From my point of view, both Clark and Superman are constructs. The real person is Kal-El of Krypton, and whether he knows who that person is depends upon which incarnation of the character you're looking at.
In the very early incarnations of the character, it was similar to what we've seen in the movies where he had this very vague knowledge of where he came from, and at the very beginning of course he had no idea. This knowledge he had was developed over time as they developed the back story on Krypton. I don't think it was until the late '40s that through whatever science fictional device there was, Superman learned about his life of Krypton. Then of course by the late '60s because of all the debris and characters who had somehow coinkydinkily escaped the destruction of Krypton to show up on earth and the bottle city of Kandor and the memory chair he had...as they started to develop these devices for Krypton to be an interesting story setting with all these different places to go, it opened up the stories. He then became totally possessed of a sense [of] this identity of Ka-El of Krypton. You're talking about a universe in which he's got this bottle in his fortress featuring miniaturized extended family members, nevermind Supergirl and Alura and Zor-El and the rest of it. What else could he be?

10. The lack of books for Superman supporting books, especially now adays. It seems every time, there is a good book for one of Clark's supporting book, or when a book is released for Lois, Jimmy, Supergirl, etc, there isn't much thought, effort and support put into it, especially compared to the Batman franchise. It feels disheartening to be honest.

[godisawesome]

Here is my eclectic takes, which are going to seem mostly pro-Post-Crisis, but not always.

1. Charlatan Clark - the Donner and Reeves idea of him being this parody of a human being who reflects no aspects of the character’s true personality. It’s as an extreme side of the secret identity idea as the “Superman, but with glasses and a suit” idea… except it also makes Superman an *******. The best Superman and Clark are ones who both reflect different priorities and projections by a sincere individual underneath who someone like Lois or Jimmy can actually get along with genuinely at the Planet, and the same with Superman and Hamilton. If someone can’t manage that balance, it’s better to have “Superman With Glasses” than a Reeves-style Clark.

2. Killing the parents. Because screw it - the vast majority of 50 year old adults still have parents who are alive, let alone 30 year olds, and in no way do the parents hold back the writers or make him “rely” on them. That's a bunch of bullshit; the vast bulk of stories with the Kent’s still alive didn’t involve them, and for those that do, a story overly-reliant on Els exists. Both sets of parents are valuable tools for storytelling that can both be left out of a story. And killing Pa in particular is tired.

3. Returning Metropolis to an “Everycity” and dumping the B13 upgrades - This one shows a specific era’s retraction I hate. Metropolis being a sci-fi city with anachronistic and advanced technology side-by-side really should have remained a part of the setting as an excuse to embrace some Silver Age tropes without the “pull out of your ass” part .

4. Business Lex being Trump. Business Lex has t7ned out to be a good idea, but honestly, the more it’s used as his own sort of “secret identity” for a more complex and cunning villain, the better it is. Some of those Post-Crisis stories where he’s just Trump are hurt in hindsight because we saw how stupid and shallow the real deal was. There’s a reason President Lex actually comes off as significantly more competent and cool as a villain - because ultimately, Lex as a genuinely terrifying example of capitalism at its sharpest and immoral is better than him being an example of privilege spoiling someone’s brain.

5. The fall of Jimmy Olsen - Remember that part above where I said that Metropolis should have remained a city with advanced tech no one knows? It’s partially because then you could properly update Jimmy Olsen as a kid having madcap adventures without them seeming hokey. Bronze Age Jimmy was probably the character’s apex because of the era’s maturity over the Silver Age while still using it’s imagination - Post-Crisis forgetting about him is a flaw of that era.

6. Trying to establish a single future with the Legion of Superheroes - This is maybe more of a conceptual issue of modern comics, but I kind of hated how we had three-four distinct “real” Legions that each rather obnoxiously dumped on the other in their different bids to combine nostalgia with an update. I personally found Johns’s reintroduction of a “Classic-but-not” Legion obnoxious and arrogant enough to spoil the story, even though he had strong ideas for them. We should really make it so that Legions exist in multiple possible futures, but not the same one, and that sometimes a Team Superman member finds themselves in a different one than they’re used to, or even find themselves associated with particular types of Legions.

7. Any version of Lois who’s not an Action Girl - The Golden Age Lois of the Fleischer cartoons was just as prone to as kicking as the Post-Crsis and Smallville Loiss, and the damsel in distress sucks. Honestly, the more we can make it so that regular mooks and henchmen will get put on their ass by Lois, the better.

8. Circus Freak Brainiac - That idea form Post-Crisis was just dead on arrival, which is why it was good that it wound up being dropped.

9. Prankster as a Superman villain - He’d work great as an enemy for the supporting cast of regular humans… but he’s outdone by Toyman as childish gadget villain for Superman, and Mxyzptlk as a general pest and irritant. Golden Age stories with him as the opponent are always the most disappointing, and his update on the 00s failed for a reason.

10. The New 52 being unwilling to have Lois and Clark hitched in the present… and to not also have a “flashback” book continue after Morrison. Really, in hindsight, this was probably the conceptual issue the Superman books had underneath Berganza just sucking as a human being and editor; Morrison’s run on Action Comics should have been a pattern everyone else followed on that book, and the Superman book itself should have kept the modern, married Superman. Action Comics could have then had the romance bit that editors seem to insist the audience craves… but the writers could have had more fun with it, knowing Lois and Clark *was* the “endgame.”

[DABellWrites]

I don't really have 10, but I'd like to see Clark have a love life outside of Lois Lane (and occasionally Wonder Woman). Not looking for some pre-crisis Superman who gets infatuated with every woman that walks his way. If DC Comics would reboot, they should really explore Clark's love life more. For example, who else was a childhood crush besides Lana Lang? The same goes for Lois Lane.

[sunofdarkchild]

1. Most of my other problems with Superman stem from this: The lack of of a long-term vision for the character. Whatever problems Post-Crisis Superman had, they had a single vision which they stuck to meticulously for about 15 years and it resulted in the Triangle era being one of the most consistently good eras the character has ever had. Since they abandoned that in the early to mid-2000s the entire brand has suffered greatly and it seems to change direction completely every 3-5 years, sometimes even faster. There's no continuity, no sense of character growth, no sense that anything really matters. Basically the Superman line and DC used to have amazing editors who kept quality high and when they got replaced the quality of the comics fell off a cliff.

2. Having more Kryptonians around. The 'Superman is the last son of Krypton and therefore the only Kryptonian' rule makes much more sense to me now than it did when I was a kid. Seeing what cast of the Superman books used to be and what it shrank to when they started bringing in more Kryptonians again, seeing the inability of anyone in any medium to do anything interesting with Kara or anything to make her distinct from Clark, I can't help but agree it would be better if it was just him and maybe Jon.

3. How small the world has felt since the human cast was mostly discarded. Having a large cast in Metropolis made the city feel real and highlighted the effect Superman was having on the world. Without that cast there's little reason to care about the villain of the week or the event villain of the quarter.

3. The loss of 'The American Way.' Even as a kid I hated that moment from Superman Returns, and scenes like him giving up his American citizenship (which is meaningless since it's Clark who has US citizenship since Superman has no social security number, tax returns, ect).

4. Superman having basically unlimited power. While it is more justified with Superman than a lot of other characters who get upgraded to 'omega' or 'unlimited' status for no reason like Iceman, in general that kind of power doesn't work for long-term storytelling. Having the strength to move a mountain is more than enough for even Superman, and it's good to have threats that can beat him without resorting to the classic weaknesses like kryptonite, magic, and red sunlight.

5. The Superman-Wonder Woman romance. Partially because they broke up his marriage to Lois for it, and partially because I think it doesn't serve either character.

6. Superman going evil because Lois died. It was a neat idea the first time, but after Injustice it's been milked dry and needs to be put out to pasture.

7. How much of a horrible person Superman and much of his supporting cast could be in the Silver Age. I don't like Kara, but sending her off to an orphanage? Lois could be so cruel and Jimmy might have been a bigger criminal mastermind than Lex Luthor.

[DABellWrites]

1. Most of my other problems with Superman stem from this: The lack of of a long-term vision for the character. Whatever problems Post-Crisis Superman had, they had a single vision which they stuck to meticulously for about 15 years and it resulted in the Triangle era being one of the most consistently good eras the character has ever had. Since they abandoned that in the early to mid-2000s the entire brand has suffered greatly and it seems to change direction completely every 3-5 years, sometimes even faster. There's no continuity, no sense of character growth, no sense that anything really matters. Basically the Superman line and DC used to have amazing editors who kept quality high and when they got replaced the quality of the comics fell off a cliff.

2. Having more Kryptonians around. The 'Superman is the last son of Krypton and therefore the only Kryptonian' rule makes much more sense to me now than it did when I was a kid. Seeing what cast of the Superman books used to be and what it shrank to when they started bringing in more Kryptonians again, seeing the inability of anyone in any medium to do anything interesting with Kara or anything to make her distinct from Clark, I can't help but agree it would be better if it was just him and maybe Jon.

3. How small the world has felt since the human cast was mostly discarded. Having a large cast in Metropolis made the city feel real and highlighted the effect Superman was having on the world. Without that cast there's little reason to care about the villain of the week or the event villain of the quarter.

3. The loss of 'The American Way.' Even as a kid I hated that moment from Superman Returns, and scenes like him giving up his American citizenship (which is meaningless since it's Clark who has US citizenship since Superman has no social security number, tax returns, ect).

4. Superman having basically unlimited power. While it is more justified with Superman than a lot of other characters who get upgraded to 'omega' or 'unlimited' status for no reason like Iceman, in general that kind of power doesn't work for long-term storytelling. Having the strength to move a mountain is more than enough for even Superman, and it's good to have threats that can beat him without resorting to the classic weaknesses like kryptonite, magic, and red sunlight.

5. The Superman-Wonder Woman romance. Partially because they broke up his marriage to Lois for it, and partially because I think it doesn't serve either character.

6. Superman going evil because Lois died. It was a neat idea the first time, but after Injustice it's been milked dry and needs to be put out to pasture.

7. How much of a horrible person Superman and much of his supporting cast could be in the Silver Age. I don't like Kara, but sending her off to an orphanage? Lois could be so cruel and Jimmy might have been a bigger criminal mastermind than Lex Luthor.

Sending Kara off to the orphanage was the best way to say, that she's not his sidekick. Plus, he already had Jimmy, who had the role of sidekick.

[KC]

Can't think of 10, but I have 7.

1. Lois and Clark having a "will they won't they" relationship/Lois not knowing Clark is Superman/Lois-Clark-Superman love triangle. It was fun for a while but "will they won't they" relationships get really boring and stale to me if they go on for too long. I hope we never go back to it.

2. The relationship between Superman and Women Woman in the 52.

3. Clark as Superboy not being the inspiration for the Legion of Super-Heroes.

4. Bendis' version of the Legion.

5. Evil Superman stories. I find them so boring.

6. Superman as the "Last son of Krypton". I think Superman's mythos is enriched so much by having characters like Kara and Zod.

7. Currently, Clark only has Action Comics. I think Clark should have Action Comics and Superman. And then Jon could have a book titled something like Adventures of Superman. Also, I think the two Superman books should have different writers.

[David Walton]

What's annoying about this is they make it seem like this is a weakness specific to Superman. With Kryptonite only Kryptonians are affected by it (in most continuities)--but that's not the deal with magic. Everyone is vulnerable to magic--even other magic characters are vulnerable to magic. It's a universal weakness.

Magic is like an artistic license that lets writers do anything they want--because there's no rules. So, of course, magic can affect Superman. It would be stupid if Superman, a science based hero, was invulnerable to magic.

It would be like if bullets or the flu were constantly listed as Batman's weaknesses.

[9th.]

2) Not having powers from day one. I will be the first to admit this is petty and shallow of me but there's a backstory here. I was born with all kinds of birth defects. I was always weaker than the other kids. So to see a character who also grew up differently than everyone else but in a good way, that actually made him easier to relate to. So when you have a Superman who was "ordinary" at one time, that actually makes him harder for me to relate to. I know that sounds strange to most people but that's how I see it.

A super strong/fast toddler sounds like nightmare, can you imagine the tantrums???

[superduperman]

A super strong/fast toddler sounds like nightmare, can you imagine the tantrums???

The irony is, most versions don't have a problem with it. The Donner movie, Smallville, the Superboy TV show, even S&L. The DCEU version at least implies it in the novelization. I get the opposition and understand it. I'm just saying it helped me relate to the character in a way that I don't to other characters who got powers later.

[DochaDocha]

It would be like if bullets or the flu were constantly listed as Batman's weaknesses.

They should!

Sometimes, I don't even think the in-universe explanations for why magic affects Superman always make sense. Then again, I've already said that magic and superheroes often don't mix well...

[manwhohaseverything]

The irony is, most versions don't have a problem with it. The Donner movie, Smallville, the Superboy TV show, even S&L. The DCEU version at least implies it in the novelization. I get the opposition and understand it. I'm just saying it helped me relate to the character in a way that I don't to other characters who got powers later.

I would say i never found it relatable(superbaby thing) until man of steel..As child i had breathing problems..my aunt used to sit with me just like ma kent did in the movie...I prefer powers being no walk in the park to be relatable.

[David Walton]

They should!

"And in a bit of sad news, Joe Chill Jr. sneezed on the Batman last week, bringing a productive crimefighting career to an end after he continued to push himself too hard. I'm Clark Kent for WGBS saying good night."

Sometimes, I don't even think the in-universe explanations for why magic affects Superman always make sense. Then again, I've already said that magic and superheroes often don't mix well...

I thought the in-universe explanation was "it's magic"! But I think sometimes Superman making such a point of it in his thought process makes it seem as though he's somehow especially vulnerable to magic, as opposed to it being a normal weakness for pretty much everyone who isn't magic-based.

[Jim Kelly]

The other day, I was reading "The Enchanted Mountain" by Don Cameron and Ira Yarbrough from ACTION COMICS 86 (July 1945), reprinted in SUPERMAN 272 (February 1974)--and also in THE BEST OF DC [digest] 38 (July 1983) and in SUPERMAN: THE GOLDEN AGE OMNIBUS Vol. 5 (2018). The Man of Tomorrow defeats the Wizard of Wokit's magic by simply refusing to believe in it. He then goes to the townspeople of Morabia and makes a speech to them, saying that they should not believe in the magic and then it will have no power over them. The Action Ace then travels at the speed of light toward the Enchanted Mountain and brings it and the Wizard's magic castle down like a house of cards.

This story could be read as an imaginary story--so even when it was first published it wasn't set firmly in continuity. And I doubt that the publisher would let Kal-El get away with that kind of talk nowadays. The very idea that magic isn't real and you shouldn't believe in it--shocking!

[manwhohaseverything]

The other day, I was reading "The Enchanted Mountain" by Don Cameron and Ira Yarbrough from ACTION COMICS 86 (July 1945), reprinted in SUPERMAN 272 (February 1974)--and also in THE BEST OF DC [digest] 38 (July 1983) and in SUPERMAN: THE GOLDEN AGE OMNIBUS Vol. 5 (2018). The Man of Tomorrow defeats the Wizard of Wokit's magic by simply refusing to believe in it. He then goes to the townspeople of Morabia and makes a speech to them, saying that they should not believe in the magic and then it will have no power over them. The Action Ace then travels at the speed of light toward the Enchanted Mountain and brings it and the Wizard's magic castle down like a house of cards.

This story could be read as an imaginary story--so even when it was first published it wasn't set firmly in continuity. And I doubt that the publisher would let Kal-El get away with that kind of talk nowadays. The very idea that magic isn't real and you shouldn't believe in it--shocking!

It's just.it hypocritical..i am supposed to not believe in magic or mana,chi,chakra whatever but a guy can fly? Ofcourse,they can make a hard scifi superman.Then that guy could say magic is bullshit.