The Amazons (DCEU) vs. Mirkwood Elves (Hobbit)

[nj06]

Which side wins when the Amazons of the DCEU go to war against the Mirkwood Elves from the Hobbit trilogy? The Amazons have their feats from both WW films as well as the original JL film and the Snyderverse cut.

The Amazons

vs.


Mirkwood Elves

Diana is not present for the Amazons since she is too powerful, however, Hippolyta and Antiope are there. The Elves have Legolas and Tauriel along with Thranduil.

I think Amazons might be physically stronger and also have an actual cavalry, while the Elves look like they have better armor and may have more skilled archers.

What are your thoughts?

[The Arbiter]

I think your assumptions are solid.

Amazonians are probably better pound for pound as far as individual soldiers go and have the benefit of a sizable horse back army. Elves seem to have better training and coordination when working as an armored unit

My guess is that the Elves fell a decent number of horses during the charge but fail to prevent getting overrun. Once the Amazonians have broken their lines, chaos breaks out and the Amazonian advantage starts to snowball.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Hmm, how are the sides even? I think we saw fewer Amazonians in the movie.

[choptop]

The Amazons are out numberd.

[nj06]

I think your assumptions are solid.

Amazonians are probably better pound for pound as far as individual soldiers go and have the benefit of a sizable horse back army. Elves seem to have better training and coordination when working as an armored unit

My guess is that the Elves fell a decent number of horses during the charge but fail to prevent getting overrun. Once the Amazonians have broken their lines, chaos breaks out and the Amazonian advantage starts to snowball.

Thanks for the response! I can definitely see the scenario playing out as you stated. Do you think that Legolas, Tauriel, and Thranduil being present for battle would make any significant impact against the Amazons?

[nj06]

The Amazons are out numberd.

I thought about this and I wasn't sure which side would have the larger military force. We saw in WW84 that there were enough Amazons to fill a stadium:

I assumed that all Amazons are apart of the military and with that pic above as a guide I guessed that their population would be around 3-5k. I don't know how big Thranduil's army is, but I also assumed it was around the same size:

[Jackalope89]

Thranduil has Legolas?

Poor Amazons. Never had a chance against the ninja elf.

[Stigmazilla]

I think your assumptions are solid.

Amazonians are probably better pound for pound as far as individual soldiers go and have the benefit of a sizable horse back army. Elves seem to have better training and coordination when working as an armored unit

My guess is that the Elves fell a decent number of horses during the charge but fail to prevent getting overrun. Once the Amazonians have broken their lines, chaos breaks out and the Amazonian advantage starts to snowball.

The elves have a decent spearman component which should stop a cavalry charge though, especially with the elves barrage of arrows.

[Captain Smith]

Battle of Crecy - This depends on discipline and numbers, what's the terrain?

Individually the Amazons, will take an elf.

[Sharpandpointies]

I'm not seeing any place named, which makes it Khazan, 100' starting distance (ugh, this really favours the cavalry), Khazan big enough to accommodate both sides.

Rough call.

The 100' distance favours the cavalry - they'll cross that pretty quickly, enduring less arrows in the doing. If they can hit the elves and break their formation, it won't matter if there are more Elves (depending on just how MANY more there, obviously there's a point where the numbers will tell); the Amazons are a superior force in-close, and they'll be riding in on horses after a successful cavalry charge against footsoldiers. Especially since, in Khazan, there's nothing preventing the cavalry from riding to attack the flanks before the footsoldiers can adjust their enormous formation.

However, the Elves have some advantages themselves.

1. They have the correct equipment - spears, armor, and loads of archers - to fight off a cavalry charge;
2. They're fast enough to start with the arrows before the cavalry arrives, and their archers are like...movie-archer good;
3. If the Amazons try flanking, it's just going to get them hammered by the archers that much longer.

I'm tempted to say the Amazons take this. Numbers aren't THAT different, the Amazons are physically superior, and it's only 100' distance. Lemme see...

*goes and watches fight sequences from the movie*

Well. That was something. Now my current feeling is that the Amazons take this. They're doing stuff like loosing arrows accurately while bungee jumping, loosing arrows while from the middle of a cavalry charge with sufficient accuracy to punch a guy in the heart and enough power to send him flying off his feet a meter backward. They're leaping dozens of feet in the air and throwing knives while doing so to kill multiple people simultaneously. It's almost movie-Legolas crap, and these are no-name, mook Amazons.

I figure they charge the Elven formation while loosing arrows at the front ranks. The Elves loose back. The Elves are going to do more damage than the Amazons, here, due to having better armor, but not so much that it matters - the first wave of Amazons arrives and either powers in (assuming they can get their horses to do so) or leaps off their horses, over the first rank of Elves, and starts fighting. They're not going to last, but the Elven spear wall formation collapses, the rest of the cavalry charge hits, and things just go downhill from there.

Mileage may vary, and I'm curious to hear other people's opinions.

[The Arbiter]

I'm not seeing any place named, which makes it Khazan, 100' starting distance (ugh, this really favours the cavalry), Khazan big enough to accommodate both sides.

Rough call.

The 100' distance favours the cavalry - they'll cross that pretty quickly, enduring less arrows in the doing. If they can hit the elves and break their formation, it won't matter if there are more Elves (depending on just how MANY more there, obviously there's a point where the numbers will tell); the Amazons are a superior force in-close, and they'll be riding in on horses after a successful cavalry charge against footsoldiers. Especially since, in Khazan, there's nothing preventing the cavalry from riding to attack the flanks before the footsoldiers can adjust their enormous formation.

However, the Elves have some advantages themselves.

1. They have the correct equipment - spears, armor, and loads of archers - to fight off a cavalry charge;
2. They're fast enough to start with the arrows before the cavalry arrives, and their archers are like...movie-archer good;
3. If the Amazons try flanking, it's just going to get them hammered by the archers that much longer.

I'm tempted to say the Amazons take this. Numbers aren't THAT different, the Amazons are physically superior, and it's only 100' distance. Lemme see...

*goes and watches fight sequences from the movie*

Well. That was something. Now my current feeling is that the Amazons take this. They're doing stuff like loosing arrows accurately while bungee jumping, loosing arrows while from the middle of a cavalry charge with sufficient accuracy to punch a guy in the heart and enough power to send him flying off his feet a meter backward. They're leaping dozens of feet in the air and throwing knives while doing so to kill multiple people simultaneously. It's almost movie-Legolas crap, and these are no-name, mook Amazons.

I figure they charge the Elven formation while loosing arrows at the front ranks. The Elves loose back. The Elves are going to do more damage than the Amazons, here, due to having better armor, but not so much that it matters - the first wave of Amazons arrives and either powers in (assuming they can get their horses to do so) or leaps off their horses, over the first rank of Elves, and starts fighting. They're not going to last, but the Elven spear wall formation collapses, the rest of the cavalry charge hits, and things just go downhill from there.

Mileage may vary, and I'm curious to hear other people's opinions.

It's like you took my answer and fed it a steady diet of love and steroids.

Well said! I'm in total agreement.

This is one of those fights that can change dramatically based on the location of the battlefield and if either side has a competent strategist and some time to implement said strategies.

[nj06]

I'm not seeing any place named, which makes it Khazan, 100' starting distance (ugh, this really favours the cavalry), Khazan big enough to accommodate both sides.

Rough call.

The 100' distance favours the cavalry - they'll cross that pretty quickly, enduring less arrows in the doing. If they can hit the elves and break their formation, it won't matter if there are more Elves (depending on just how MANY more there, obviously there's a point where the numbers will tell); the Amazons are a superior force in-close, and they'll be riding in on horses after a successful cavalry charge against footsoldiers. Especially since, in Khazan, there's nothing preventing the cavalry from riding to attack the flanks before the footsoldiers can adjust their enormous formation.

However, the Elves have some advantages themselves.

1. They have the correct equipment - spears, armor, and loads of archers - to fight off a cavalry charge;
2. They're fast enough to start with the arrows before the cavalry arrives, and their archers are like...movie-archer good;
3. If the Amazons try flanking, it's just going to get them hammered by the archers that much longer.

I'm tempted to say the Amazons take this. Numbers aren't THAT different, the Amazons are physically superior, and it's only 100' distance. Lemme see...

*goes and watches fight sequences from the movie*

Well. That was something. Now my current feeling is that the Amazons take this. They're doing stuff like loosing arrows accurately while bungee jumping, loosing arrows while from the middle of a cavalry charge with sufficient accuracy to punch a guy in the heart and enough power to send him flying off his feet a meter backward. They're leaping dozens of feet in the air and throwing knives while doing so to kill multiple people simultaneously. It's almost movie-Legolas crap, and these are no-name, mook Amazons.

I figure they charge the Elven formation while loosing arrows at the front ranks. The Elves loose back. The Elves are going to do more damage than the Amazons, here, due to having better armor, but not so much that it matters - the first wave of Amazons arrives and either powers in (assuming they can get their horses to do so) or leaps off their horses, over the first rank of Elves, and starts fighting. They're not going to last, but the Elven spear wall formation collapses, the rest of the cavalry charge hits, and things just go downhill from there.

Mileage may vary, and I'm curious to hear other people's opinions.

Well stated and thanks for the response/analysis. Alas, I did forget to name a location and unfortunately defaulting to Khazan doesn't bring out the potential of the battle. However, I'm not sure what fictional location would be the most favorable and fair to each side.

***Instead, assume the battle takes place in the same location of "The Battle of the Goldroad" aka "The Loot Train Attack" as seen in GoT S7E4. The Elves are in the same position as the Lannister army, while the Amazons are charging towards them in a similar fashion as the Dothraki. I feel like this location allows the Amazons to still use their cavalry while also allowing the Elves a defensible position.

Thoughts?

[Sharpandpointies]

Having never watched Game of Theones, I got nuthin’. ^_^

[Stigmazilla]

Well stated and thanks for the response/analysis. Alas, I did forget to name a location and unfortunately defaulting to Khazan doesn't bring out the potential of the battle. However, I'm not sure what fictional location would be the most favorable and fair to each side.

***Instead, assume the battle takes place in the same location of "The Battle of the Goldroad" aka "The Loot Train Attack" as seen in GoT S7E4. The Elves are in the same position as the Lannister army, while the Amazons are charging towards them in a similar fashion as the Dothraki. I feel like this location allows the Amazons to still use their cavalry while also allowing the Elves a defensible position.

Thoughts?

[Sharpandpointies]

Thanks!

Situation is a little better for the Elves, here. Starting range is much longer than 100', so they'll have time to loose all kinds of volleys of arrows. But I don't feel it provides a solid defensive ground, given that the Amazons can still outflank and such - there's no river or forest or cliff wall the Elves can set up against to their side, etc.

I feel that the volleys of arrows, however, are going to do a lot more damage given the power, range, and accuracy of the Elven archers.

Kind of feel this could go either way, with this setup. Elves still have the exact makeup in their army they need to at least TRY to repulse cavalry, Amazons (who are most certainly not heavy cavalry) still don't have stellar armor (and their horses are pretty much completely unarmored, and thus VERY vulnerable to archers), terrain doesn't change a lot, starting distance favors the Elves, close-combat favours the Amazons barring them taking enough casualties that they're grossly outnumbered (or arrive at the fight piecemeal due to many having their horses shot out from under them and being forced to continue forward on foot under a storm of arrows).

Would be nice if we had a better idea of numbers.