What if Jiren knew Kaio Ken?

[The Arbiter]

DBS Tournament of Power what if.

Let's assume a few different scenarios. 1: He only has x3 mastered. 2: He has x10 mastered. 3: He has x20 mastered.

How do his various engagements with the Saiyans, Frieza and Ultra Instinct play out?

[Dark Soul # 7]

It wouldn't really change much to be honest.

He was doing just fine until Goku mastered Ultra Instinct, and even at that point he was putting up a fight. So giving him Kaio-ken would mainly start mattering towards the end of the tournament.

[The Arbiter]

It wouldn't really change much to be honest.

He was doing just fine until Goku mastered Ultra Instinct, and even at that point he was putting up a fight. So giving him Kaio-ken would mainly start mattering towards the end of the tournament.

Do you figure he could overcome MUI Goku and the follow up attacks of Frieza and 17?

[Darth Drizzle]

I'm pretty sure KKx3 would be overkill for Jiren as he was already over powering all of them when he got into serious mode. Or he activates it earlier before Goku masters Ultra Instinct and eliminates everyone after he stops beserk Kale seeing as how fighters can be unpredictable with varying power levels and he decides to end everything right then with a KKx3 and nobody would even react to him eliminating them until it's to late. After watching the Tournament again yiu can see thatJiren had plenty of moments to end it all easily much earlier then what happened in series.

[BitVyper]

Depends on how good he is at managing the burn. It's not going to affect anything probably until Goku hits MUI because Jiren had no reason to really push himself before that. Before Jiren got his power up, MUI Goku made him pretty trivial to the point I don't think kaioken is going to stop him from being on the losing side there. But it might give him the ability to accidentally burn himself out exactly the same way MUI Goku did to himself.

ToP's power scaling goes really screwy with enormous jumps in capacities like Goku at KKSSB and a spirit bomb being a non threat going to Jiren being a nonthreat, and kaioken has never really overcome that vast of a gulf. If Jiren uses it at any point before MUI, then it's really no different from asking what would happen if Jiren just like, tried to win instead of stand ominously in the background and occasionally punt someone into a wall. Yeah he can make them eat it with kaioken, but he could have done that anyway. If he uses it when he's at near parity with MUI Goku after the whole thing, he... probably wins? Again, putting himself in a bad spot because KK has a downside. But he's MOST likely to use it when MUI Goku first rolls out, and I don't think it's going to change THAT situation very much, except to make it harder for him to recover later.

[Jackalope89]

Depends on how good he is at managing the burn. It's not going to affect anything probably until Goku hits MUI because Jiren had no reason to really push himself before that. Before Jiren got his power up, MUI Goku made him pretty trivial to the point I don't think kaioken is going to stop him from being on the losing side there. But it might give him the ability to accidentally burn himself out exactly the same way MUI Goku did to himself.

ToP's power scaling goes really screwy with enormous jumps in capacities like Goku at KKSSB and a spirit bomb being a non threat going to Jiren being a nonthreat, and kaioken has never really overcome that vast of a gulf. If Jiren uses it at any point before MUI, then it's really no different from asking what would happen if Jiren just like, tried to win instead of stand ominously in the background and occasionally punt someone into a wall. Yeah he can make them eat it with kaioken, but he could have done that anyway. If he uses it when he's at near parity with MUI Goku after the whole thing, he... probably wins? Again, putting himself in a bad spot because KK has a downside. But he's MOST likely to use it when MUI Goku first rolls out, and I don't think it's going to change THAT situation very much, except to make it harder for him to recover later.

Yeah. Kaio Ken, while useful, can do a number on the body the more its used. If ki control is perfect (like SSJ Blue), it can add a nice boost with less risk of backlash. In a highly emotional state where ki is rampaging like with Jiren near the end, it could get VERY ugly for the user.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

DBS Tournament of Power what if.

Let's assume a few different scenarios. 1: He only has x3 mastered. 2: He has x10 mastered. 3: He has x20 mastered.

How do his various engagements with the Saiyans, Frieza and Ultra Instinct play out?

Maybe the power spike causes him to grow a nose, and make his backstory not be bad.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Do you figure he could overcome MUI Goku and the follow up attacks of Frieza and 17?

*wiggles hand* ...maybe.

I imagine that if any of the Kaio-ken levels is enough to overcome MUI Goku then the toll it takes on him might be enough of a drain for Freiza and 17 to just push him out.

But give how fast people recovered after using all their power during the ToP he might still get his second win.

Biggest change might be if he's strong enough to punch out Goku or not.

[Saitou Hajime]

So Jiren is using KK on top of his shirtless mode or are we using KK to replace his shirtless mode as his most powerful state?

[BitVyper]

Here's what I think based on times he could have used it:

Any time before Goku achieves MUI: Literally does not make sense for him to use it, but if he uses it to punt Goku out of the ring, he ultimately wins the whole tournament. No MUI means no one putting Jiren in a position where it's possible for him to lose. If he uses it on anyone but Goku or somehow does not ring out Goku with it, he runs the risk of losing the stamina battle later on. I guess he could ring out Vegeta and that might badly affect Goku's side of things, but again, he could have done that anyway. Using it any time before MUI is just Jiren deciding to win.

During MUI pre power up: I do not believe it can help him here. Might make things slightly less stacked in MUI Goku's favour, but that could work out pretty poorly for him too if it means that either Goku doesn't stop his attack on the sidelines (which could lead to a DQ from Zeno) or he doesn't get his other power up. Even then, it affects his stamina later on.

During MUI post power up: Despite my personal feeling that raw power probably isn't enough to beat MUI, he can likely knock Goku off here. Depending on how long that takes, Frieza and 17 might still have a shot at beating him after, but at this point I think if he can win with KK, he probably doesn't need a very high multiple of it.

During his last stand: If he CAN use it at this point, any level of it should give him enough juice to win pretty easily. Although with everyone except 17 being in extremely rough shape, it's possible he takes out Goku and Frieza only to find he has nothing left to fight 17 with.

But I want to point out that knowing KK and being able to burst fight with it the way Goku does are different things. Goku has gotten really skilled at managing how he uses KK. Remember the first time he ever used it, he managed like what, three shots? Of it before he could barely move, compared with later where it's just "oh yeah Goku is using it so skillfully that we don't actually see"

[choptop]

Maybe the power spike causes him to grow a nose, and make his backstory not be bad.

No he's still boring.

[Siriel]

There's no reason to believe that he doesn't know Kaioken or an equivalent already. The way he started layering auras when he got serious is similar to how Super portrayed SSB+Kaioken.