Changing sexualities of the modern X-Men

[Nicoclaws]

I don't know why people are still trying to convince others that there were hints and opening for Iceman exploring his sexuality in past comics. There have been way to many threads about that. At this point, it's just willfull ignorance. Don't tire yourself. Enjoy a free thread to criticize Claremont or Hellion, it's a free for all here.

[BobbysWorld]

I don't know why people are still trying to convince others that there were hints and opening for Iceman exploring his sexuality in past comics. There have been way to many threads about that. At this point, it's just willfull ignorance. Don't tire yourself. Enjoy a free thread to criticize Claremont or Hellion, it's a free for all here.

Oh I know, I just like using relevant opportunities to post about that Defenders run, cuz it was a trip and a half.

[Rift]

To be fair, I didn't know about the Moondragon stuff, and I didn't see it mentioned in a thread before.

[Triniking1234]

I don't know why people are still trying to convince others that there were hints and opening for Iceman exploring his sexuality in past comics. There have been way to many threads about that. At this point, it's just willfull ignorance. Don't tire yourself. Enjoy a free thread to criticize Claremont or Hellion, it's a free for all here.

Nah, it was a legit question since some of you seem to be around longer than me so I probably missed a lot. When i started Iceman was in X-Factor and on TV in that Spider-Man cartoon.

[BobbysWorld]

To be fair, I didn't know about the Moondragon stuff, and I didn't see it mentioned in a thread before.

Yeah, the Moondragon stuff also included Valkyrie suddenly being extra uncomfortable and abrasive with Moondragon right around when she started doing her 'okay, now everybody that thinks I'm hot.....dial that up and be like, OBSESSED with me' thing. With later writers pointing to that as possibly because previously Valkyrie had been able to deny her attraction to her, but all of a sudden, it was a lot harder to do that and she was like yeah wow, I was enjoying my denial, rude.

Of the characters in that lineup, Moondragon, Valkyrie and Bobby all went on to be canonically established as same-gender attracted, and add in Cloud's canonical explorations of gender identity.....it was a pretty queer book, especially given the climate of Marvel and comics in general at the time.

[WebLurker]

Hellion was terrible during Academy X.
******** 99 % of the time, so when he acted like a decent person, it made him look extra good by contrast with his usual behavior (abuser 101)
*at the center of a "good, serious girl tames the bad boy" romance (boring, overdone trope)

Sure. While I think giving him depth was a good call, the execution was pretty bad. Wind Dancer is one of the most underused X-Men of her era, but her and Hellion didn't work that well. I think, on paper, the idea of the rival team leaders liking each other could work, but Hellion was the only character who actually benefited.

But he is one of the few characters who greatly improved in New X-Men, with the new creative team
He had to think about his attitude, his pride was destroyed when he was powerless to save his friends, and X-23 made him look like a puppy.
So, yes, he had a good deconstruction arc and came out of it way more interesting than before.

I think Kyle and Yost did him the best, but I'm not sure he ever really escaped the bad boy cliche he was based on.

And then the very writers who improved him stopped caring and used him exclusively as a damsell in distress to stir emotions from X23.

Kinda recall him coming off pretty badly in their X-Force series, flirting with another girl (who turned out to be an enemy agent). Granted, he and X-23 weren't dating or anything, but it does make him look like some kind of cad. Course, the solo X-23 series, which ended with him being entitled, hurtful and stalking X-23 after she ended their would-be relationship, is probably his worst hour. (Remember the All-New Wolverine AU future story arc had it has backstory that they got together as adults, which always seemed unlikely, after how badly things ended between them.)

[Rift]

I can't believe I'm one one of the people who's talking about Hellion the least lmao. I just mentioned him off-hand as a joke. Not that I'm complaining about this turn of events, it's much more interesting than seeing people get angry and fight over who Iceman is frosting.

[Starfish]

I always liked Hellion and Mercury's sibling-like relationship.

[Nicoclaws]

Oh I know, I just like using relevant opportunities to post about that Defenders run, cuz it was a trip and a half.

Haha that's fair.

[Sutekh]

I always liked Hellion and Mercury's sibling-like relationship.

I did like how he didn't at first 'get' her interest in Kevin Ford, but was totally supportive anyway. He fell down a bit as 'squad leader,' but he did seem to be supportive as far as Mercury was concerned, and later, when he was screwing up and 'failing his friends' Cessily was absolutely there to call him on it. There was almost a sibling-y vibe to their friendship, and it was neat, since there are very rarely decent male/female relationships in these books that aren't centered around shipping or 'will-they/won't-they' nonsense.

And, last I saw, she was into Bling! and he was into (spins the wheel) Shark Girl? How time flies!

[Starfish]

And, last I saw, she was into Bling! and he was into (spins the wheel) Shark Girl? How time flies!

It does indeed, because Mercury has been dating Loa since last year's Gala, where Legion helped them have psychic sex after they had a little mishap (in Way of X #3).



(now I wonder if Elixir had to regrow anything after his fling with Loa during the New X-Men run)

Not sure what her relationship status with Bling! is, though, as they've been shown making out not long before that, and there was no indication they might have broken up. Hence my speculation that Cessily might be polyamorous, seeing how she's always seemed quite relaxed about hooking up.

That same issue (X-Factor #5) also showed Hellion reconnect with Wind Dancer, with Julian being the first to welcome her back after she was resurrected with her powers restored.

[Kingdom X]

I did like how he didn't at first 'get' her interest in Kevin Ford, but was totally supportive anyway. He fell down a bit as 'squad leader,' but he did seem to be supportive as far as Mercury was concerned, and later, when he was screwing up and 'failing his friends' Cessily was absolutely there to call him on it. There was almost a sibling-y vibe to their friendship, and it was neat, since there are very rarely decent male/female relationships in these books that aren't centered around shipping or 'will-they/won't-they' nonsense.

And, last I saw, she was into Bling! and he was into (spins the wheel) Shark Girl? How time flies!

I've recently been getting really into Mercury, but I'm struggling to find anything meaningful when it comes to this relationship with Bling! It seems like it starts with an out of character panel of Cessily punching Roxanne and from there they start dating? Please make it make sense.

[Rift]

IIRC Cess basically said "you were kind of creepy. I'm interested, but next time, ask me out instead of being a weirdo." I don't remember there being a lot of substance, and I remember thinking Bling! was unpleasant about it, so I never liked the ship. And I was against Merc being bi at first because it felt like it was done to give Bling! a girlfriend, using a character they didn't use much.

[Starfish]

I've recently been getting really into Mercury, but I'm struggling to find anything meaningful when it comes to this relationship with Bling! It seems like it starts with an out of character panel of Cessily punching Roxanne and from there they start dating? Please make it make sense.

My personal explanation is that Mercury was simply happy that someone found her attractive enough to date, as she was having self esteem issues when it came to her mutation and how it had changed her appearance, which probably was also the reason why she was that much into Wither, believing that only someone with literally no other choice might like her. But yeah, the way they were written made both Roxy and Cessily look bad, and it never seemed like a stable foundation to build a relationship on.

IIRC Cess basically said "you were kind of creepy. I'm interested, but next time, ask me out instead of being a weirdo." I don't remember there being a lot of substance, and I remember thinking Bling! was unpleasant about it, so I never liked the ship. And I was against Merc being bi at first because it felt like it was done to give Bling! a girlfriend, using a character they didn't use much.

I remember Bling! defaming Mercury as a homophobe following the punch, which didn't help to endear to me her character. In hindsight, she pretty much bullied Cess into being her girlfriend. So, yeah, maybe it's best for them to move on from that relationship.

[Kingdom X]

My personal explanation is that Mercury was simply happy that someone found her attractive enough to date, as she was having self esteem issues when it came to her mutation and how it had changed her appearance, which probably was also the reason why she was that much into Wither, believing that only someone with literally no other choice might like her. But yeah, the way they were written made both Roxy and Cessily look bad, and it never seemed like a stable foundation to build a relationship on.

I remember Bling! defaming Mercury as a homophobe following the punch, which didn't help to endear to me her character. In hindsight, she pretty much bullied Cess into being her girlfriend. So, yeah, maybe it's best for them to move on from that relationship.

Thank you (and Rift) for the context! Yeah I get why Bling! thought she was a homophobe because physical violence is a very extreme way to reject somebody, but yeah like you said it seems like the relationship makes them both look messy. Though now that I think about it the Loa relationship also resulted in some extreme messiness thanks to Legion so maybe Mercury should start fresh (and get used in goddamn book).