Changing sexualities of the modern X-Men

[danielsan52]

I’d rather see some NEW gay or bi character get character development over changing an existing character.

That said, I wonder if Super Sabre, Crimson Commando, Stonewall, Poltergeist, and Link were supposed to be gay from the start.

[Ulysian_Thracs]

It's pretty stupid. There are plenty of legit non-straight characters who deserve their time in the spotlight, and shouldn't be written in cartoonish fashion, but instead we have to have long straight characters changed because people don't understand friendship and combine what Claremont has said in some in modern interviews (which is akin to what JK Rowling was doing), the inside joke that he wrote all of his woman that way because of fantasies, and modern writers indulging the the slash fan demands. And sometimes this has happened to non-straight characters themselves. Shatterstar's asexuality wasn't good enough back in the 00s. But at least PAD knew how to tell stories. Far too many of the current writers have no talent and resort to orientation changes because that's all they know how to do and they know it guarantees headlines.

This is SOOOO perfectly said!!!! I don't care if Betsy or Rachel are gay or straight or something in between. I think it's hot that they kissed. But why are they changing people's sexualities and downplaying the value of deep, solid friendships based on anything other than sex? (I think they do a rather poor job of this with straight pairings too, in that they always play up the sexual tensions as if if no two people of any gender or orientation can just be really good, healthy friends.) Is it to make a social critique that everyone exists on a sliding scale of sexuality rather than a binary choice? (That's my personal opinion, BTW.) Is it just to create shock value or tell a 'woke' story? Or is there a legit story reason that these particular characters finally came out after decades other than the writers ship them? (Still angry Liu shat all over Hellion to build up her X-23/Jubilee fanship.)

Mister Sinister is very flamboyant. I am very cautious about labeling based on stereotyping, but based on the purely scientific mindset of Sinister, I don’t see him as having issues with sexualities. I don’t think he would care either in particular, which would also technically fall under lgbtq+ guidelines.

100% agree witht he scientific aspect. He would do it with a guy at least once as an experiment. And wasn't Sinister's consciousness put in a female clone once and had little to no problem with that from a social standpoint? (Or any standpoint, if I recall correctly.)

It’s wishful thinking, but I am pretty certain multiple people (not me) have been interested in the Magneto/Xavier dynamic. I picture them as friends still, but it’s been vocalized and shipped before. (Especially in the movies)

Just my thinking, but I've always read some kind of Dumbledor/Grendlewald dynamic into their friendship. Maybe acted on, maybe a curiosity on one or both their parts.

[Rift]

There can never be enough! I support polyamorous Mercury. And speaking of biphobia, I'd like to see her reconnect with Wither, too.

Based opinion, tbqh. We shouldn't rest until Mercury is a harem master.

I also dont like that they feature gay characters like Anole, Darkvail and Graymalking only in the pide issues to show how progressive they are, but as soon as june is over they forget about those characters.

Meanwhile most books are still lead by straight white anglosaxon people, with the token minority.

To be fair on Anole and Graymalkin, almost everyone in their entire generation is ignored. Anole actually has it better than many of them because he at least gets more cameos as wallpaper, and he was part of the Lost Club in Vita Ayala's New Mutants. But yeah, they need to get some focus instead of... whatever the heck is going on with them now.

Darkveil was introduced in the tail end of a fairly recent and very minor book, doesn't have a lot of characterization, and had played a big role. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people in charge even heard about them. It'd be cool to see them fleshed out more (and go back to being Shade,) but Darkveil is probably the least "deserving" of page time, compared to characters who have more going for them and haven't got their dues.

Mister Sinister is very flamboyant. I am very cautious about labeling based on stereotyping, but based on the purely scientific mindset of Sinister, I don’t see him as having issues with sexualities. I don’t think he would care either in particular, which would also technically fall under lgbtq+ guidelines.

I get the vibe that Sinister is attracted to himself. Like he doesn't care about gender, he only loves things in relation to himself. So he'd bang his clones or Miss Sinister, and maaaaybe sleep with one of his experiments if they're good quality and worship the ground he walks on. ("I made that. I made this perfect specimen. I am a genius and they rightfully adore me!")

I’d rather see some NEW gay or bi character get character development over changing an existing character.

Agreed. Or focus on the ones they have, but haven't developed enough.

That said, I wonder if Super Sabre, Crimson Commando, Stonewall, Poltergeist, and Link were supposed to be gay from the start.

Considering his name is Stonewall, I wouldn't be surprised if Absorbing Man's son was meant to be gay from the start.

[ZuLuLu]

Meh, just I like real life I don't have a problem with comic characters' sexuality being messy and complicated.

In a world where characters don't stay dead, come from a next time and dimension, can take over take over the body of another person and make it their own I'm not going to worry about the logic of if that character can be gay, bi, lesbian, etc...

That said if you are going to explore a character's sexuality write a good story don't just use it for shock value.

I also agree that existing LGBT characters should be used and developed more.

[Ambaryerno]

Liu wanted laura and jubliee as a couple. Really hoping Williams follows threw on thay

Besides the fact their relationship has developed into a more sisterly dynamic, the fact that most of the people who ship this are relying on a story that began with Laura possibly fatally cutting herself in a bathroom, and then caring so little about whether she lives or dies she was fully prepared to let a vampire DRAIN HER DRY just to see if Jubilee would actually do it, (and if it could actually killer) makes this INHERENTLY problematic. The Touching Darkness arc was LITERALLY about self-destructive and possibly suicidal behavior.

[Icefanatic]

It's pretty stupid. There are plenty of legit non-straight characters who deserve their time in the spotlight, and shouldn't be written in cartoonish fashion, but instead we have to have long straight characters changed because people don't understand friendship and combine what Claremont has said in some in modern interviews (which is akin to what JK Rowling was doing), the inside joke that he wrote all of his woman that way because of fantasies, and modern writers indulging the the slash fan demands. And sometimes this has happened to non-straight characters themselves. Shatterstar's asexuality wasn't good enough back in the 00s. But at least PAD knew how to tell stories. Far too many of the current writers have no talent and resort to orientation changes because that's all they know how to do and they know it guarantees headlines.

The bulk of the fans don't even see this stuff as real. They either read around it and try to ignore it or make up head cannon explanations for it. Telepathic mind control, Skrulls... And when all that becomes too much effort they just stop buying and reading and believing. Imagine if the old Star Trek had been able and willing to do this stuff, eventually the only fans they had left world be the K/S ladies and that is where Marvel and DC are headed.

Stan Lee: “Face front, True Believers! Hey, where did you all go..?”

Yes to all of those. He also had a flirtatious encounter with Daken in the DARK WOLVERINE series.

James Asmus has specified said that he considered Gambit bisexual when he wrote his solo book, and had originally planned to address it directly in-story but the first scenario he proposed was shot down and he didn't pursue it again. Fabian Nicieza also mentioned once on Twitter "I don't think I was very subtle about Gambit being bisexual when I wrote his solo book".

At this point Gambit seems to fall into the category of one of those X-characters who is generally accepted by the writers and readers as being bi...but no one has actually come out and made it official on-panel as of yet.

I know a ton of Gambit fans, none of whom consider him gay or bi. Statements like that drive me crazy.

Hypothetical...

Vocal minority of fans: "Did you hear, Peter Parker and Johnny Storm FINALLY made out in the latest issue of Fantastic Four. MOST of the fans have been considering them both gay or at least bi for decades, so it was nice to finally see it confirmed on panel. EVERYONE is thrilled!!!"

Majority of fans: That's a lie! Neither Peter or Johnny are gay or bi! The current Marvel Universe is a lie! I might as well stop reading comics, what is even the point anymore?!

comics are f!cking doomed :/

For a variety of reasons, not least of all once people stop seeing enough of the characters as 'real' they stop seeing the fictional universe as 'real'. And when only a sliver of people still believe in your fictional universe, it effectively dies...

[Sylarmax]

The X-Office is very biphobic, Iceman should have been bisexual, Rictor was bisexual until they make him 100% gay, same with Destiny, they will do it with Raechel aswell.

I also dont like that they feature gay characters like Anole, Darkvail and Graymalking only in the pide issues to show how progressive they are, but as soon as june is over they forget about those characters.

Meanwhile most books are still lead by straight white anglosaxon people, with the token minority.

Destiny and Rictor are bisex yet.

[Sylarmax]

Gambit has had some flirtatious dialogue with men before, hasn’t he?

I don’t think Scott and Logan are outed per se, but there are still very heavy implications near the beginning of the Krakoan era. I wonder if this was just a Hickman choice, because no other writer has touched on this dynamic beyond a very, very small cameo in a pride issue with Scott, Logan, and Jean in the background.

Mister Sinister is very flamboyant. I am very cautious about labeling based on stereotyping, but based on the purely scientific mindset of Sinister, I don’t see him as having issues with sexualities. I don’t think he would care either in particular, which would also technically fall under lgbtq+ guidelines.

I have to wonder if Warlock might fall somewhere on the spectrum of lgbtq+ because he has been very, very clingy to Cypher in recent times after the wedding. It’s very awkward to try to interpret because friendship and romance lines are really blurry in real life. Friends flirt to joke and romantic partners can be less affectionate than friends at times and still be completely fine because it is what works for them.

It’s wishful thinking, but I am pretty certain multiple people (not me) have been interested in the Magneto/Xavier dynamic. I picture them as friends still, but it’s been vocalized and shipped before. (Especially in the movies)

No, Gambit es heterosexual. And Scott anda Logan IN CANON ARE BISEX.

I mean a writer can believe and say what they want, the important thing is that it shows up in comics, and Logan and Scott already know they have had relationships and they made it clear.
Remy has never seriously flirted with another man, the daken thing was towards Remy, not the other way around, and Daken ended up pretty beat up for that, and "when he kissed his friend" in his solo series they forgot to mention that his friend was in a COMPLETELY WOMAN body.

So there is absolutely nothing to " assume Gambit is bisexual " which YES is in canon with Scott and Logan .

[9th.]

The X-Office is very biphobic, Iceman should have been bisexual, Rictor was bisexual until they make him 100% gay, same with Destiny, they will do it with Raechel aswell.

I also dont like that they feature gay characters like Anole, Darkvail and Graymalking only in the pide issues to show how progressive they are, but as soon as june is over they forget about those characters.

Meanwhile most books are still lead by straight white anglosaxon people, with the token minority.

100% agreed on Iceman although I think it still would've received the same amount of backlash.

[Sylarmax]

I don't think Marvel is biphobic when it has a lot of bisexual characters, being in a same-sex relationship and being stable doesn't make them either gay or lesbian.....which I think is what they're confusing.


With bobby.....Iceman never fit me as a straight guy, he always gave closeth gay Fender vibes, so I don't see anything wrong with that, actually that wasn't a surprise, long before that baby Iceman and old Iceman came out from the closet AND THEY WILL DECLAR THEMSELVES 100% GAYS, it was the character that was most speculated to be gay from closeth and there were many tests and open issues about it.

[shugahfree]

Laura should be a butch lesbian. She was never cooler than in ANW with her black leather jacket and less in the bullseye of the straight male gaze.

Long overdue coming outs for Rahne (lesbian), Dani (bi), Avalanche (gay), Pyro (gay), Storm (pan), Illyana (ace), Tag (gay), and Jubilee (though not necessarily with Laura). I don't think a writer has really put in the work to connect the dots for me, but think M would be fun as bi too.

It's pretty stupid. There are plenty of legit non-straight characters who deserve their time in the spotlight, and shouldn't be written in cartoonish fashion, but instead we have to have long straight characters changed because people don't understand friendship and combine what Claremont has said in some in modern interviews (which is akin to what JK Rowling was doing), the inside joke that he wrote all of his woman that way because of fantasies, and modern writers indulging the the slash fan demands. And sometimes this has happened to non-straight characters themselves. Shatterstar's asexuality wasn't good enough back in the 00s. But at least PAD knew how to tell stories. Far too many of the current writers have no talent and resort to orientation changes because that's all they know how to do and they know it guarantees headlines.

So which is it...did Claremont write characters as gay per his fantasies or do readers "not understand friendship"?

Either way, Claremont was explicitly FORBIDDEN from writing any of his characters as out gay no matter how heavy handed the hints were.

[Omega Alpha]

I don't think Marvel is biphobic when it has a lot of bisexual characters, being in a same-sex relationship and being stable doesn't make them either gay or lesbian.....which I think is what they're confusing.

While it's silly to say they're biphobic, there's barely any, and when they are, they are usually evil, horndogs that sleep around a lot, or both.

[danielsan52]

Daken and Skein are two established bisexual characters.

Sadly the X-office has never used Skein except for a cameo once I think.

[Omega Alpha]

Daken and Skein are two established bisexual characters.

Sadly the X-office has never used Skein except for a cameo once I think.

And Daken is a ruthless murderer who sleeps with everybody, and his powers essentially allow him to rape everyone he wants.

[PyroFN]

100% agree witht he scientific aspect. He would do it with a guy at least once as an experiment. And wasn't Sinister's consciousness put in a female clone once and had little to no problem with that from a social standpoint? (Or any standpoint, if I recall correctly.)

Oh, Miss Sinister. I know who you mean!

Technically yes and no. The yes in reference that Sinister did try to take over her body, but no in the sense that under normal circumstances, she is her own character. Albeit, she probably had a bit of a personality change similar to Selene or an evil Emma, but she still sees herself as completely her own being like how Madelyne sees herself. Sinister does not, but his view is irrelevant in regards to identity, since he does not take emotion or opinion into account beyond his own.