Changing sexualities of the modern X-Men

[Will Evans]

Isn't that what Leah Williams is doing in X-terminators ?

Maybe. I wouldn’t be surprised.

[Uncanny Mutie]

At this point, I guess ALL the X-Men and X-Characters should just be gay or bi, huh?

[Frobisher]

At this point, I guess ALL the X-Men and X-Characters should just be gay or bi, huh?

Always was.

[Rift]

At this point, I guess ALL the X-Men and X-Characters should just be gay or bi, huh?

Not the ugly ones. No one wants Glob Herman on their side.

[Saithor]

Who cares what their sexualities are? If modern writers want them to be Bi they can be Bi, if they want out of the closet moments they should do them. Just don’t do Bi erasure, handle it well, and don’t do it for corporate tokenism.

[Ulysian_Thracs]

Not the ugly ones. No one wants Glob Herman on their side.

How do you know Glob wouldn't be exceptionally handsome but for his mutation. Like, if he was hit with a depowering dart and the next frame he looks like MCU Thor. And then all the X-Girls crowd around him and say 'You can wax me any day, Robert.' lol

Who cares what their sexualities are? If modern writers want them to be Bi they can be Bi, if they want out of the closet moments they should do them. Just don’t do Bi erasure, handle it well, and don’t do it for corporate tokenism.

I am with you on this. I don't really care if a character is gay straight or bi, as long as it is in furtherance of a good story. The first thing is ALWAYS tell an exciting, interesting story that makes me feel something for the characters. If they have that, race, gender, sexuality, etc. are not even really noticed.

And they have done that a lot of times for me with LGBT characters. Bobby was really well done over the course of decades. Mystique always made sense from her power and morals.Northstar and Shatterstar/Rictor were always written damn well in my opinion. Betsy has been bi for a while and at least there was some leadup to the kiss, but I'm afraid it's going to go from slow burn to wifed up by the next issue. (My hesitation with this pairing isn't the LGBT angle, it's because it just felt like the same bs mary sue fanfiction as x-23/jubilee from liu to me.)

But the flip side of the coin is that I feel the writers also tend insert stuff like this as a crutch for not knowing what the hell to do with a character in the story, or to shore up a weak fitting character who didn't really belong in that particular story in the first place. They know the attention/controversy will be on the 'woke' aspect (LGBT, gender/race swap, interracial couples, etc.) and not the actual story. So, in my opinion, make all the LGBT characters you want, just don't make characters LGBT just to do it. There has to be a real story reason that furthers the plot, as well as grounding in the history of the character. otherwise, just make a new damn character who is LGBT. God knows they make new characters all the time and then forget about them.

[shugahfree]

Mercury is like....the blandest choice for Bling! Or anyone really

She's definitely the Karolina Dean of the bunch. Visually striking but a bit bleh.

[Rift]

Mercury is like....the blandest choice for Bling! Or anyone really

She's definitely the Karolina Dean of the bunch. Visually striking but a bit bleh.

Oh, you guys better not be talking smack about Cessily Kincaid. Illegal. She's a national treasure.

[Confuzzled]

Mercury is like....the blandest choice for Bling! Or anyone really

Yeah, I feel like Loa would be a more interesting choice.

[Nicoclaws]

How do you know Glob wouldn't be exceptionally handsome but for his mutation. Like, if he was hit with a depowering dart and the next frame he looks like MCU Thor. And then all the X-Girls crowd around him and say 'You can wax me any day, Robert.' lol



I am with you on this. I don't really care if a character is gay straight or bi, as long as it is in furtherance of a good story. The first thing is ALWAYS tell an exciting, interesting story that makes me feel something for the characters. If they have that, race, gender, sexuality, etc. are not even really noticed.

And they have done that a lot of times for me with LGBT characters. Bobby was really well done over the course of decades. Mystique always made sense from her power and morals.Northstar and Shatterstar/Rictor were always written damn well in my opinion. Betsy has been bi for a while and at least there was some leadup to the kiss, but I'm afraid it's going to go from slow burn to wifed up by the next issue. (My hesitation with this pairing isn't the LGBT angle, it's because it just felt like the same bs mary sue fanfiction as x-23/jubilee from liu to me.)

But the flip side of the coin is that I feel the writers also tend insert stuff like this as a crutch for not knowing what the hell to do with a character in the story, or to shore up a weak fitting character who didn't really belong in that particular story in the first place. They know the attention/controversy will be on the 'woke' aspect (LGBT, gender/race swap, interracial couples, etc.) and not the actual story. So, in my opinion, make all the LGBT characters you want, just don't make characters LGBT just to do it. There has to be a real story reason that furthers the plot, as well as grounding in the history of the character. otherwise, just make a new damn character who is LGBT. God knows they make new characters all the time and then forget about them.

It's funny because your complaints of tokenisms and "wokism" has NO basis in the comics. I mean you yourself made a point of listing the characters whose sexuality was revealed as "not straight" and admitted every single one made sense. So you must admit that the "woke and token" argument is just a strawman thing.

Also, implying Mystique's bisexuality makes sense because of "her morals" is definitely a bad take.

[Frobisher]

I think it makes sense that Mystique's sexuality would be completely fluid, as she's inhabited so many different bodies, and that is also how she can swing between more heroic and villainous modes. And you just would, wouldn't you?

[Nicoclaws]

I think it makes sense that Mystique's sexuality would be completely fluid, as she's inhabited so many different bodies, and that is also how she can swing between more heroic and villainous modes. And you just would, wouldn't you?

That's due to her powers though, which I agree. Being a shapeshifter would definitely encourage one to explore gender and sexualities (same for telepaths, in my opinion).
But saying "morals" implies that psychopathic liars (which she def is) are more likely to be bi, which is a very common and toxic trope.

[Sutekh]

I think it makes sense that Mystique's sexuality would be completely fluid, as she's inhabited so many different bodies, and that is also how she can swing between more heroic and villainous modes. And you just would, wouldn't you?

And yet, I wonder if Mystique is a lesbian, who is situationally willing to sleep with dudes as part of some agenda or scheme or manipulation, but is not a little bit attracted to them, or ever even remotely in love with them. Just because she's boinked some dudes in the past, doesn't necessarily make her bisexual. It's a thing she's done, not who she is, if that makes sense.

It would be entirely possible that a shapeshifter's sexuality and / or sense of self would be radically fluid, and yet also as likely that their inner self would be rock solid, since their flesh is mutable and shifting and fluid, so that, for their own sanity's sake, they develop a self-image / identity that's solid like rock, to give them something to hold on to, sort of a reliable foundation or skeleton under their everchanging exterior. I could see it going either way. (Although given Mystique's endless betrayals of whatever principles she claims to hold dear, I doubt she's actually ever developed any psychologically healthy coping mechanisms, ever, for anything...)

[Ulysian_Thracs]

It's funny because your complaints of tokenisms and "wokism" has NO basis in the comics. I mean you yourself made a point of listing the characters whose sexuality was revealed as "not straight" and admitted every single one made sense. So you must admit that the "woke and token" argument is just a strawman thing.

Also, implying Mystique's bisexuality makes sense because of "her morals" is definitely a bad take.

You misinterpreted my post in several ways. First, I said it can be done well and listed the times I thought it was. (FAR from an exhaustive list of LGBT characters.) At least those are the ones I remember with any specificity. I admit 'coming out' stories aren’t something that particularly appeal to me or that I seek out to read. But they can be done very well and very entertaining, and I am not opposed to reading them when they are. I certainly wouldn’t avoid a book I am otherwise interested in because it has a coming out story…

But I abhor the forced, shoehorned ‘wokism’ of making virtually any and every character LGBT when it doesn't add to (or actively subtracts from) the story. And that is what most of these 'suddenly gay' reveals feel like, at least to me. Cheap plot devices to distract from middling stories and writing. A few off the top of my head:

-Kitty and her ‘oh, I was always bi-‘ thing. 'Didn't you all know that about me'?

-Prodigy suddenly becoming gay/bi and crossdressing as Tinkerbelle…why exactly? And more importantly why now? What purpose does changing this character serve?

I’ve never been a huge Prodigy fan because he rubbed me the wrong way the way he picked on Elixir in the first books. But I found it kind of a forced pivot to go from one extreme (sucker punching Hellion for Surge kissing him) to the other with nothing in between.

-Exodus, probably the most powerful mutant after Jean and Legion, is suddenly just a love-struck Twilight teen with a millennia long unrequited crush on his best friend. (Angsty antireligious de-closeting drama likely to ensue…)

Why can’t two men (or women, who they do this even more often with) just be really good friends? Why can’t there be a deep platonic love and caring for each other with absolutely no romantic feelings or homoerotic undertones (or outright overtones) on either side? I always hated the way Liu’s shipping X-23/Jubilee really cheapened what seemed like a really good sisterly bond. Same thing with Kidon and their friendship. It was like no one could just be Laura's friend and care about that poor, abused girl as a person without wanting to get in her panties because Liu needed to make her so perfect and loved to fill whatever need Liu was missing in her real life. (Except her old NXM friends, of course, who legitimately cared about Laura as a person, especially Hellion, and they all got pushed aside for these new ‘grown up’ connections.)

-Cyclops and Logan suddenly being ‘more than not-quite-friends’? W-T-F is this, bad fan fiction? The only reason for these two characters to have anything more than grudging respect for each other is that they both love the X-men and the same woman. (And apparently Cyclops doesn’t mind sharing her with Logan and Jon Hamm and whoever else she wants to bang?) Seriously, the most reasonable explanation for any of this polyamory schlock is that Jean mind controls Scott to let her get some animalistic side piece action, then one night she had a headache and they were both pestering her for sex so she mind controlled them to go screw each other and leave her the hell alone. #GirlBoss

And you also misinterpreted my Mystique comment entirely. I don't think she is bi because she is a sociopathic villain. I think she would very easily be what we consider bi-sexual because she has absolutely no concern for both gender or society's norms. She is also very selfish and would go take whatever she wanted without second thought to the point she wouldn't spare a second to even wonder what her sexuality is. Labels like that don't matter to her. She wants what she wants. If she finds it attractive, she would want it and go try to take it. Boy, girl, or purple horse.

(I also think Sinister would be openly bi. He wants to experience everything at least in a scientific way.)

And yet, I wonder if Mystique is a lesbian, who is situationally willing to sleep with dudes as part of some agenda or scheme or manipulation, but is not a little bit attracted to them, or ever even remotely in love with them. Just because she's boinked some dudes in the past, doesn't necessarily make her bisexual. It's a thing she's done, not who she is, if that makes sense.

It would be entirely possible that a shapeshifter's sexuality and / or sense of self would be radically fluid, and yet also as likely that their inner self would be rock solid, since their flesh is mutable and shifting and fluid, so that, for their own sanity's sake, they develop a self-image / identity that's solid like rock, to give them something to hold on to, sort of a reliable foundation or skeleton under their everchanging exterior. I could see it going either way. (Although given Mystique's endless betrayals of whatever principles she claims to hold dear, I doubt she's actually ever developed any psychologically healthy coping mechanisms, ever, for anything...)

I could see this. It would certainly be a much more interesting take…the things we do as supervillains to survive!

[Ambaryerno]

Why can’t two men (or women, who they do this even more often with) just be really good friends? Why can’t there be a deep platonic love and caring for each other with absolutely no romantic feelings or homoerotic undertones (or outright overtones) on either side? I always hated the way Liu’s shipping X-23/Jubilee really cheapened what seemed like a really good sisterly bond. Same thing with Kidon and their friendship. It was like no one could just be Laura's friend and care about that poor, abused girl as a person without wanting to get in her panties because Liu needed to make her so perfect and loved to fill whatever need Liu was missing in her real life. (Except her old NXM friends, of course, who legitimately cared about Laura as a person, especially Hellion, and they all got pushed aside for these new ‘grown up’ connections.)

This goes back a long, LONG way. Kirk/Spock slash fic is probably as old as Star Trek itself. And don't forget about Frodo and Sam, which adds extra helpings of "Completely missed the point" when fanon makes their relationship romantic.