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  1. #16
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    I think Anakin is a bad example of a Sith. Anakin was driven by fear. Palpatine was driven by greed. If you are a selfish person who only cares about power then you'll be happy as a Sith. If you are becoming a Sith to keep people safe so you won't lose them, then you'll more than likely end up miserable; the people likely won't understand and you'll lose them anyway (even if they survive the maelstrom your violent actions set off).

    Personal Note - As a Buddhist, I think being a Jedi is far better than becoming a Sith but that's because I prefer to help people, do the minimum amount of harm, and seek enlightenment. The selfless Jedi philosophy is more in line with my goals than is the selfish philosophy of the Sith.
    Last edited by Celgress; 08-06-2022 at 11:11 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Of course I guess that also sounds like "from my perspective, it's the Jedi who are evil."
    Precisely. Everyone is the hero of their own story and everyone does what they do for reasons they *believe* are righteous. Hel, even hitler thought he was doing the right thing, but nobody would say he was anything but a horrific monster. Not unless one were a monster themselves anyway.

    Thrawn is a villain. He can be sympathetic, the lesser evil, relatable, he can be all kinds of things, but he's still a villain. By nearly every possible metric in both the fiction of Star Wars and virtually every major philosophical school of thought, the guy is responsible for crimes both legal and ethical. The fact that we still like him and find him compelling and maybe we agree with him a little bit about some things? That just makes him a good villain.

    Lex Luthor can also be sympathetic, the lesser evil, and relatable. He's no less an evil douchebag because of it.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Said it better than I could.

    Attachment 123545
    Ostensibly speaking, Vader isn't miserable because he chose the Dark Side. He's miserable because he failed to preserve the relationships he valued during the rise of the Empire. If Padme were alive and his children hadn't been kidnapped and conditioned to hate him, he could have had a very happy life as a Dark Sider.

    It's just a general fact of life that genuinely evil people are happier than genuinely good ones. Being and doing good is a burdensome act that demands reflection and self-sacrifice. The evil don't care about any of that crap and just do whatsoever they please.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    Ostensibly speaking, Vader isn't miserable because he chose the Dark Side. He's miserable because he failed to preserve the relationships he valued during the rise of the Empire. If Padme were alive and his children hadn't been kidnapped and conditioned to hate him, he could have had a very happy life as a Dark Sider.

    It's just a general fact of life that genuinely evil people are happier than genuinely good ones. Being and doing good is a burdensome act that demands reflection and self-sacrifice. The evil don't care about any of that crap and just do whatsoever they please.
    But choosing the Dark Side is why he lost his wife and children and, thus, why he is so miserable. Even if he had beaten Obi Wan and had not lost his limbs and been reduced to a life support suit that kept him in constant pain, he would not have been happy, or even semi-conent. He could never be happy while in the Dark Side because his wife and children would reject him because they were good and he had chosen evil. Had he stayed good, Padme would still be alive. Luke and Leia would not have hated him for even a moment. They would have had no reason to. And that was the real thing. Luke and Leia had every reason to hate him, which is why it was so important that when Luke found out Vader was his father, he tried to save him and showed him that he still loved him, that there was still hope. And no, evil people are not happier than good people; not in Star Wars, and not in real life. Even the Emperor was not really happy. He may have disguised it well, but he was by no means happy at all, even in his darkest triumphs. To say nothing about real life evildoers, especially the more famous ones.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Sith are so laughably over the top, it boggles my mind that anyone can take them seriously for being honest.
    Aren't the Sith constantly murdering each other in the Star Wars universe? Not sure what is cool about joining a group in which your likely to get murdered by your allies.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    It seems like JJ Abrams literalized the concept of a fan not realizing Darth Vader was the bad guy with Kylo Ren, though Rian Johnson pretty much tanked that direction by romanticizing the boy who wanted to be a space nazi.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I think Anakin is a bad example of a Sith. Anakin was driven by fear. Palpatine was driven by greed. If you are a selfish person who only cares about power then you'll be happy as a Sith. If you are becoming a Sith to keep people safe so you won't lose them, then you'll more than likely end up miserable; the people likely won't understand and you'll lose them anyway (even if they survive the maelstrom your violent actions set off).
    It's all rooted in fear, I think.

    Greed is the fear of not possessing, lust for power is the fear of not being in control.

    It's impossible to be happy as a Sith because if they achieve a blissful state they can no longer utilize the Dark Side. There was a great moment in SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE where it's revealed that Vader tries to use the Dark Side to heal his injuries when he's in his meditation chamber. The catch is that whenever it starts to work he loses his edge and thus his access to the Dark Side. So he always reverts back to his original state of being physically and emotionally broken.

  8. #23
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
    Aren't the Sith constantly murdering each other in the Star Wars universe? Not sure what is cool about joining a group in which your likely to get murdered by your allies.
    pretty much

    Even pre-Rule of Two you advanced up the ranks by killing your superiors. If you're a Sith Master you best sleep with one eye open.
    Last edited by Celgress; Today at 09:35 AM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

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