Immortal X-Men 5 - SPOILERS

[ExodusCloak]

Are you kidding we've seen him fight this was about understanding him as a character and really understanding where his faith comes from.


His behavior and need to find meaning in his life through faith is something larger then himself is definitely a product of his time. I loved this issue so much cause is really shows how far the mind will go to truly believe what it wants to believe

This, Gillen gave his characters in Immortal X-Men time to shine and Exodus sitting in front of the sun for god knows how long without ending up like Jean and Logan is an incredible feat

[Saturius]

Hes just that powerful. He curbstomped Thena too. This was when they both had telepathy. Sersi was called a low level psychic in Judgement Day which was surprising

I've never been exactly clear on Sersi's strength as a telepath. She always came off as mid level. I still stand by what I said though. I don't care how powerful Exodus is, having him beat Sersi after having his powers for like 20 minutes was dumb. Especially now that it was revealed in this issue that he also gleaned a ton of info about Eternals from her as well. Surely she wasn't that weak? In any case, I accept it though cause it happened but it was still silly imo.

And the only time I recall Thena and Exodus fighting was in Quicksilver's solo. He certainly didn't curb stomp her there at all. They fought then she got ambushed by Ameila Voght I believe who cut off her oxygen, thus prematurely ending the battle. Later on they psychically fight again but the result of that was skipped over. Later on in the issue Exodus unleashes his telepathy against the team and Thena is the one who shields multiple people's mind from his attack which would have killed everyone. She mentions she didn't know how long she could do so, but Exodus certainly didn't beat her at any point and she was able to stand up against him. Unless there was another encounter I am missing.

[Milici]

I've never been exactly clear on Sersi's strength as a telepath. She always came off as mid level. I still stand by what I said though. I don't care how powerful Exodus is, having him beat Sersi after having his powers for like 20 minutes was dumb. Especially now that it was revealed in this issue that he also gleaned a ton of info about Eternals from her as well. Surely she wasn't that weak? In any case, I accept it though cause it happened but it was still silly imo.

And the only time I recall Thena and Exodus fighting was in Quicksilver's solo. He certainly didn't curb stomp her there at all. They fought then she got abused by Ameila Voght I believe who cut off her oxygen, thus prematurely ending the battle. Later on they psychically fight again but the result of that was skipped over. Later on in the issue Exodus unleashes his telepathy against the team and Thena is the one who shields multiple people's mind from his attack which would have killed everyone. She mentions she didn't know how long she could do so, but Exodus certainly didn't beat her at any point and she was able to stand up against him. Unless there was another encounter I am missing.

Keep in mind It was everyone against Exodus, one on one he would have stomp her like a roach.

[ExodusCloak]

I've never been exactly clear on Sersi's strength as a telepath. She always came off as mid level. I still stand by what I said though. I don't care how powerful Exodus is, having him beat Sersi after having his powers for like 20 minutes was dumb. Especially now that it was revealed in this issue that he also gleaned a ton of info about Eternals from her as well. Surely she wasn't that weak? In any case, I accept it though cause it happened but it was still silly imo.

And the only time I recall Thena and Exodus fighting was in Quicksilver's solo. He certainly didn't curb stomp her there at all. They fought then she got ambushed by Ameila Voght I believe who cut off her oxygen, thus prematurely ending the battle. Later on they psychically fight again but the result of that was skipped over. Later on in the issue Exodus unleashes his telepathy against the team and Thena is the one who shields multiple people's mind from his attack which would have killed everyone. She mentions she didn't know how long she could do so, but Exodus certainly didn't beat her at any point and she was able to stand up against him. Unless there was another encounter I am missing.

If I'm remembering correctly was she not lying on the ground sweating and struggling to block him while he was engaged with an amped Quicksilver?

[Wolverine12]

Feat wise it's hard to give Xavier respect I guess because he is being amped by wearing the Cerebro helmet.

And the Eternals are using the uni-mind, even with Cerebro amplifying him that’s still impressive.

[Saturius]

If I'm remembering correctly was she not lying on the ground sweating and struggling to block him while he was engaged with an amped Quicksilver?

Quicksilver had already stopped his attack when Exodus unleashed his telepathy. She blocked him. And even before that, when Pietro was getting a power up, Exodus tried another psionic attack that Thena blocked. Exodus admitted Thena was his most dangerous opponent and attempted to take her out psychically in the beginning of the brawl. This was a group fight but the only other two people who tried to fight Exodus and laid hands on him were She Hulk and Quicksilver.

Exodus is no slouch and he took more damage for sure, and Thena was exhausted (as was Exodus) but Thena was not a pushover and a win over her was not guaranteed and he admitted as such. She even mentions that he is getting stronger as the battle goes on due to his fanaticism and he still was not able to take her out completely. This isn't an example of a curbstomp imo. A curbstomp is what Exodus casually did to Jean Grey who literally put up zero resistance back in the day. Not what Thena did here.

[Saturius]

I really disliked this issue. I’m a big Exodus fan and placing Hope as his new messiah he follows feels like a regression. He’s already said that he no longer wanted to follow anyone and wanted to make his own decisions. Now with hope, he’ll have to come to that revelation all over again (hopefully). I really thought with Krakoa, Exodus would continue moving forward and maybe finally join the present and develop more relationships with the other mutants. Now, he’s just a mutant zealot again but with the religious part emphasized even though he left the crusaders. Rather he’s just used for superpower feats than this.

I think this is why ultimately I found the issue unsatisfying. It's not the direction I want to see the character go in. We've already seen him as a zealot for far too long. Moving him out of that direction is more interesting to me but Gillen instead wants to retread and double down on what we've already seen, only tweaking it a bit with some Phoenix sprinkles. Not sure if that's going to work or not.

[BobbysWorld]

The big thing that was missing for me in all of this was some characterization to answer WHY Exodus is so desperately seeking a higher power to serve and put his faith in. People turn to faith for all KINDS of reasons, and the problem for me is it still feels like we came in at the middle of the story....once Exodus had already STARTED on his path of zealotry, that took him from the Templars to Apocalypse, to Magneto, and then ultimately to Hope....but we're still lacking that context of what set him on that path to begin with.

And without it, it kinda feels like his entire characterization hinges on 'well he's this way because that's just who his character is' and its like, okay, yeah, but again...WHY is that the entirety of his character? What specific questions has this man spent his whole life in search of answers for, we know he's deeply invested in the survival and flourishing of mutants, but like....surely there was something at some point in his life that first made him go THIS is the direction my life is going to take. For someone as fanatical as him, I just think its crucial for the springboard that launches that character on such a firm, unshakeable trajectory over the course of centuries.....like.....that launching catalyst feels like it needs to be something specific, significant, and like.....with OOMPH, y'know?

And I think his character is still missing that for me, and its a little frustrating because this was supposed to be the big look back at how his journey began....and it feels like it just sorta takes for granted that 'well he was already a knight, so it was relatively easy for his faith to be seen as tool to be repurposed by others like Apocalypse' - and yeah, I get that. But I feel its a little....underwhelming for it to be basically implied 'well he's just that way because he was a man of his time' as though that's all the explanation we need, when whether he was born nine centuries ago in a different social climate or not, he and his contemporaries were likely still just as complex or personal in their motivations as anyone today. Instead it kinda feels like his entire character journey here uses a bullet point on a character sheet as its jumping off point, instead of like, an actual earlier characterization.

I don't know if that makes sense? Trying hard to put my finger on what specifically I still feel his character's missing, or how to describe it at least, but like....I like Gillen's voice for Exodus, I like his interest in the character, I've long wanted to see his character explored.....I just hope that whenever Gillen returns to Exodus' POV in future issues, that like, we spend a little more time mining the beats BENEATH his religious zealotry. The personal details that give us a sense to what in this character's life led up to his obsessive search for something to devote himself to in his adulthood, an idea of what Exodus' hopes, dreams and fears apart from just his faith are like.....because those are the things that give context TO his zeal.

*Shrugs* Totally subjective of course, but that was my big takeaway, after sitting with the issue for a bit. I WANT to be engaged by this character and his arc and his actions and agendas, same as the rest of the cast.....but its not really there yet for me. I feel like everything we learned about him is....not superficial, exactly, but lacking context that grounds it? Like.....at the end of the day, I still feel like Exodus' character can be summed up by just his religious fervor in a way that doesn't really say or reveal much about him beyond the fact that like, dude is intense.....because it all feels like its centered more around those characters beats rather than around he himself as a character.

[jwatson]

The big thing that was missing for me in all of this was some characterization to answer WHY Exodus is so desperately seeking a higher power to serve and put his faith in. People turn to faith for all KINDS of reasons, and the problem for me is it still feels like we came in at the middle of the story....once Exodus had already STARTED on his path of zealotry, that took him from the Templars to Apocalypse, to Magneto, and then ultimately to Hope....but we're still lacking that context of what set him on that path to begin with.

And without it, it kinda feels like his entire characterization hinges on 'well he's this way because that's just who his character is' and its like, okay, yeah, but again...WHY is that the entirety of his character? What specific questions has this man spent his whole life in search of answers for, we know he's deeply invested in the survival and flourishing of mutants, but like....surely there was something at some point in his life that first made him go THIS is the direction my life is going to take. For someone as fanatical as him, I just think its crucial for the springboard that launches that character on such a firm, unshakeable trajectory over the course of centuries.....like.....that launching catalyst feels like it needs to be something specific, significant, and like.....with OOMPH, y'know?

And I think his character is still missing that for me, and its a little frustrating because this was supposed to be the big look back at how his journey began....and it feels like it just sorta takes for granted that 'well he was already a knight, so it was relatively easy for his faith to be seen as tool to be repurposed by others like Apocalypse' - and yeah, I get that. But I feel its a little....underwhelming for it to be basically implied 'well he's just that way because he was a man of his time' as though that's all the explanation we need, when whether he was born nine centuries ago in a different social climate or not, he and his contemporaries were likely still just as complex or personal in their motivations as anyone today. Instead it kinda feels like his entire character journey here uses a bullet point on a character sheet as its jumping off point, instead of like, an actual earlier characterization.

I don't know if that makes sense? Trying hard to put my finger on what specifically I still feel his character's missing, or how to describe it at least, but like....I like Gillen's voice for Exodus, I like his interest in the character, I've long wanted to see his character explored.....I just hope that whenever Gillen returns to Exodus' POV in future issues, that like, we spend a little more time mining the beats BENEATH his religious zealotry. The personal details that give us a sense to what in this character's life led up to his obsessive search for something to devote himself to in his adulthood, an idea of what Exodus' hopes, dreams and fears apart from just his faith are like.....because those are the things that give context TO his zeal.

*Shrugs* Totally subjective of course, but that was my big takeaway, after sitting with the issue for a bit. I WANT to be engaged by this character and his arc and his actions and agendas, same as the rest of the cast.....but its not really there yet for me. I feel like everything we learned about him is....not superficial, exactly, but lacking context that grounds it? Like.....at the end of the day, I still feel like Exodus' character can be summed up by just his religious fervor in a way that doesn't really say or reveal much about him beyond the fact that like, dude is intense.....because it all feels like its centered more around those characters beats rather than around he himself as a character.

I think i know what you mean. The best way i can describe it is it felt like a recap to new readers rather an an actual expansion on exodus. It was basically like showing Tsunade was afraid of blood and that's why she couldn't fight but instead of showing the flash back they just showed her hands shaking, naruto on the verge of death, and her just jumping up fighting and you never finding out why a medic had such a problem with blood that she was paralyzed by the sight of it.

[Outburstz]

I know this simply because I watched this show that had to do about Templars but the Templar Knights under went religion training as well as combat training. So it is not that unlikely that Exodus was indoctrinated at a very young age.

Pain and beatings were the way to make sure that you remembered the lessons that were given as well as reflect on mistakes that you may have done that might be against gods wishes.

Exodus hurting himself by going into the sun might be a call back to that.

[HomoSuperior]

Imagine the awkwardness when Exodus meets up with Echo.
also: why is Hope a Phoenix sword? Does she share Phoenix with Echo?

[Til]

Imagine the awkwardness when Exodus meets up with Echo.
also: why is Hope a Phoenix sword? Does she share Phoenix with Echo?

Hope had a lot of Phoenix-related imagery during her first few years, which is when Gillen wrote her in several books. I'm guessing he's leaning in on that for her again.

[lurkerforyears]

The eternal Exodus beat was Cerci/Sersi (I can't remember the spelling) not Thena
It was in a mini from the 90s

[Mercury]

I totally get where you're coming from, and you certainly make some valid points, BobbysWorld. That being said, I think we should all keep in mind that some writers prefer working backward, i.e., they start by introducing the most obvious qualities of a character before gradually honing in on specific characteristics and delving deeper into what drives and motivates them. Admittedly, I prefer this type of character development. While Gillen did cover well-worn terrain pertaining to Exodus' history, he also subtly revealed much about his character. As I implied in my previous post, perhaps the retread of his established drives is meant to underscore his eventual pivot to and focus on himself as the messiah once he's realized everyone else, including Hope, has failed him. Then again, maybe it's meant to spotlight that he was right all along: There always was a messiah, and he found her. We'll see.

Frankly, we're five issues into Immortal X-Men, and I genuinely feel Gillen has done a spectacular job of bringing into sharper focus aspects of each of the characters he's concentrated on that are either essential to them, albeit previously established, or indeed revelatory. Perhaps some will deem me daft or ignorant for underestimating Sinister or drinking too much of the Krakoan Kool-Aid, but I hadn't truly realized just how little this petulant and extremely dangerous sociopath had changed until reading Immortal X-Men #1. I was filled with a genuine sense of dread and disgust as it dawned on me that I hadn't begun to scratch the surface of what he is capable of, even on Krakoa—the mutant utopia—with my imagination.

Issue #2 was a return to form for Hope—a character many have disparaged and dismissed—and revealed just how ruthless she and the rest of the Quiet Council can be when pushed into a corner. Needless to say—I think most fans are unanimous in their praise for issue #3—Gillen's focus on Destiny revealed hitherto unseen layers of pain and hope in the often stolid and stoically depicted soothsayer while also placing much-deserved focus on her passionate relationship with Mystique. She thawed beautifully. Issue #4, which I was already rolling my eyes at before cracking it open—it's no secret that I am rather dismissive and contemptuous of Emma for reasons well known to most—surprised me with the subtlest and tenderest empathy towards the White Queen it elicited from me. Two things that have always kept me from embracing her as a character are her lack of remorse for her past and truly disgusting crimes, and her overly confident facade. Someone as critical and belittling of others and focused on all things superficial as she is almost always quivers and cracks beneath the surface with deep, close to debilitating insecurity. Gillen—and Duggan—handled her well during her week of focus and I found myself actually sympathizing with her.

Ultimately, I think the flagship triumvirate of X-Men, X-Men Red, and Immortal X-Men provides readers with everything they could want from this franchise, from summer blockbuster fun and action to political intrigue to character deep dives. Frankly, I'm enjoying the hell out of and loving each of those titles equally. Obviously, Gillen is an essential piece of that triad, and I sure as hell am strapped in and ready for the ride he's bound to take us on.

[Omega_DCD]

also: why is Hope a Phoenix sword? Does she share Phoenix with Echo?

It's just a visualization on the astral plane...just as Emma wasn't a literal diamond shield, but it was a representation of her using her telepathic power defensively to protect Exodus