What if WB Disc shuts down DC Cómics???

[Ascended]

DC must publish WW as a comic...and not a quarterly magazine?

I don't think that's the case anymore.

As I understand it, for most of Diana's existence DC *had* to publish a WW comic or risk losing the rights to her....but I wanna say that deal expired a few years ago? Could be wrong.

In any case, WB is not selling DC. Batman alone is worth keeping it, Superman is still one of the most profitable IP's in the genre thanks to merchandise (#4, as of a couple years back when I researched this for a college paper), Aquaman's obviously a priority with his billion box office movie and nobody is getting rid of Diana either.

What we *might* see, maybe possibly, unlikely though it is, is DC licensing the comics out to a third party like IDW or BOOM. DC would still own the characters and IP, IDW would do all the work of creating and publishing the product, and revenue would get split. It'd save DC money and IDW would make more, being able to tap into the big name characters.

But even that's unlikely, since you'd potentially have issues with any adaptations. If a IDW produced Superman story got turned into a movie, how much does IDW get out of the box office? They're not likely to sign away all royalties and rights to such a thing and DC isn't likely to want to share that big movie money. So before a third party starts making DC's comics for them, they'd have to work out a deal for any big time revenue that's created by the co-op.

[Gaius]

I don't think that's the case anymore.

As I understand it, for most of Diana's existence DC *had* to publish a WW comic or risk losing the rights to her....but I wanna say that deal expired a few years ago? Could be wrong.

In any case, WB is not selling DC. Batman alone is worth keeping it, Superman is still one of the most profitable IP's in the genre thanks to merchandise (#4, as of a couple years back when I researched this for a college paper), Aquaman's obviously a priority with his billion box office movie and nobody is getting rid of Diana either.

What we *might* see, maybe possibly, unlikely though it is, is DC licensing the comics out to a third party like IDW or BOOM. DC would still own the characters and IP, IDW would do all the work of creating and publishing the product, and revenue would get split. It'd save DC money and IDW would make more, being able to tap into the big name characters.

But even that's unlikely, since you'd potentially have issues with any adaptations. If a IDW produced Superman story got turned into a movie, how much does IDW get out of the box office? They're not likely to sign away all royalties and rights to such a thing and DC isn't likely to want to share that big movie money. So before a third party starts making DC's comics for them, they'd have to work out a deal for any big time revenue that's created by the co-op.

No, the original deal is still in place.

[Jon Clark]

I don't think that's the case anymore.

As I understand it, for most of Diana's existence DC *had* to publish a WW comic or risk losing the rights to her....but I wanna say that deal expired a few years ago? Could be wrong.

In any case, WB is not selling DC. Batman alone is worth keeping it, Superman is still one of the most profitable IP's in the genre thanks to merchandise (#4, as of a couple years back when I researched this for a college paper), Aquaman's obviously a priority with his billion box office movie and nobody is getting rid of Diana either.

What we *might* see, maybe possibly, unlikely though it is, is DC licensing the comics out to a third party like IDW or BOOM. DC would still own the characters and IP, IDW would do all the work of creating and publishing the product, and revenue would get split. It'd save DC money and IDW would make more, being able to tap into the big name characters.

But even that's unlikely, since you'd potentially have issues with any adaptations. If a IDW produced Superman story got turned into a movie, how much does IDW get out of the box office? They're not likely to sign away all royalties and rights to such a thing and DC isn't likely to want to share that big movie money. So before a third party starts making DC's comics for them, they'd have to work out a deal for any big time revenue that's created by the co-op.

How much more is a story or character worth in DC or Marvel compared to say IDW, Dynamite or Image? If I was to create a potential Harley Quinn or Galactus Saga would i really be better off holding out for some independent company that lets me keep my rights (or a larger share thereof) than making a del for a smaller portion of the rights but having my creation be part of the DC/Marvel catalog where it is more likely to get publicity (from being read) and corporate interest from Disney/Warner to get a multi-media product?

I mean if for some reason DC was to license out their comic book publishing to IDW wouldn't it still attract writers and artists who see a shot at being part of a Batman movie as more likely than having their personal creation actually reach the screen without being part of the DC IP farm?

[Anthony W]

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"Don't worry. As long as the book doesn't tarnish the brand it's safe"

[Aahz]

How much more is a story or character worth in DC or Marvel compared to say IDW, Dynamite or Image? If I was to create a potential Harley Quinn or Galactus Saga would i really be better off holding out for some independent company that lets me keep my rights (or a larger share thereof) than making a del for a smaller portion of the rights but having my creation be part of the DC/Marvel catalog where it is more likely to get publicity (from being read) and corporate interest from Disney/Warner to get a multi-media product?

At least Marvel seems to pay the comics creators pretty poorly, when they adapt stuff into other media.

DC seems to pay them better.

With a creator owned comic you can theoretically make much more money, if they get adapted, but the likely hood of that happening is probably not that high. You are probably going to sell less comics on the way there.

And working first on some of the big Marvel and DC characters is also likely the easier way to build up your reputation as a creator.


When it comes to WB licensing there characters out other publishers, I don't think that giving up part of the creative control over the characters and their future development, would be worth the the competitively little money they would make by doing that.

I actually think that WB could really benefit from bringing Vertigo back to it's former glory, to create some non super hero IP to adapt.

[Ascended]

No, the original deal is still in place.

No kidding. I could've sworn that was no longer in effect.

Thanks for setting me straight on that. The more you know....

How much more is a story or character worth in DC or Marvel compared to say IDW, Dynamite or Image? If I was to create a potential Harley Quinn or Galactus Saga would i really be better off holding out for some independent company that lets me keep my rights (or a larger share thereof) than making a del for a smaller portion of the rights but having my creation be part of the DC/Marvel catalog where it is more likely to get publicity (from being read) and corporate interest from Disney/Warner to get a multi-media product?

I mean if for some reason DC was to license out their comic book publishing to IDW wouldn't it still attract writers and artists who see a shot at being part of a Batman movie as more likely than having their personal creation actually reach the screen without being part of the DC IP farm?

This is something someone should ask Kurt Busiek over on his "Ask KB...." thread. But I'm guessing (and it's just a guess) that it's largely dependent on how much you're willing to gamble and how big your name is. Robert Kirkman is much more likely to get a good movie deal than I am, yknow? And his comics will sell a lot more. But I'm guessing here, I don't work in comics, I just read things on the internet and know some standard, across the board business practices that *most* industries and organizations follow, plus a few things about the comics industry I've learned about but never experienced and a few years as a somewhat successful small-time graphic artist (I paid bills with my art, that's *a* success). I'm Jon Snow and know nothing.

But as far as I'm aware, corporate publishers like the Big 2 do work for hire and own everything you make for them. You get a good page rate (I used to know them, but I'm sure a couple years and inflation has changed the numbers) but not much as far as royalties and creator rights go. At the indies you make a lower page rate but get more of a percentage cut of your work, including from adaptations (details dependent on individual contracts, at least sometimes?). I don't believe either type of publisher offers much in the way of benefits. Editors and other administratives might be in a different boat.

With adaptations like movies, corporate creators get a minor royalty and pay out usually, while creator owned guys obviously get a much bigger slice of the pie and often have more influence in the production.

I hear that a lot of creators start out in the indies to get the Big 2's attention and go work for them, build up a fanbase, and then take those fans back with them to the indies.

So if DC licenses their comics to an indie, the creator probably gets paid and treated like a corporate talent; they get paid upfront and don't own Batman or the stories they write, and neither does the company on their pay stub. If that story were adapted, the creator is still probably treated like a corporate talent, with a "F off" paycheck and maybe a credit on the final roll if it's a loyal adaptation. And it's all been work for hire from the start so the creator can't really be too pissed; you know what you're getting into when you work for a giant corporate interest like that.

But I'm betting the friction would come from DC and the indie (let's say IDW). If IDW, under contract, makes a Superman comic and WB wants to turn it into a movie, IDW is gonna want a good payday because they did the work and made the story. DC isn't gonna be down with that because it's their character, the maid doesn't own the tv right? Licensing deals between publishers is rare because publishers don't wanna share the wealth and damage their income statement, and we're only talking about comic book money. Imagine how greedy people must become when movie money is on the table, and corporate execs are greedy bastards to begin with (not a criticism, necessarily, business is harsh). IDW isn't gonna sign a licensing agreement that cuts them off from any of the real profit, should an adaptation be made, and DC isn't gonna sign one that gives up a big share of the money from the thing *they* own.

Which is why DC licensing their IP to third parties publishers seems unlikely to me, even though it'd likely benefit the comic side of things by reducing DC's costs and increasing IDW's profile (and sales) with Big Name IP.

[Sandy Hausler]

Well, I guess CBR will have to close down this forum. I'll sure miss my moderator job.

[skyvolt2000]

How much more is a story or character worth in DC or Marvel compared to say IDW, Dynamite or Image? If I was to create a potential Harley Quinn or Galactus Saga would i really be better off holding out for some independent company that lets me keep my rights (or a larger share thereof) than making a del for a smaller portion of the rights but having my creation be part of the DC/Marvel catalog where it is more likely to get publicity (from being read) and corporate interest from Disney/Warner to get a multi-media product?

I think it comes down to what YOU want.

You want to do ALL that work on Cassandra Cain and see her ERASED because the boss hated her? Or Eli Bradley who is kept out of books or New X-Men kids that collect dust?

I would NOT want to create a character and do all that work and then see it treated like Black Panther is right now or get deemed TOXIC by the boss like Cassandra Cain.

And some ideas would NEVER survive at DC...

Something Killing Children would that book make it pass issue 6 at DC? If you had Question or Vixen or Zatanna as the lead? NO.
Mark Millar's Prodigy-who is nothing more than Mr Teriffic without the suit. Prodigy is set to become a tv series on Netflix. We are still waiting on Mr Teriffic named MICHAEL not CURTIS.
David Walker's Bitter Root. Other than the Foxes-what black family exists in DC? Steel's family is MIA outside of Natasha.
Rodney Barnes's Killadelphia-DC does not have any black vampires running around.
Lumberjanes outlast Gotham Academy.

You would be wasting good ideas to DC and those books would never see issue 7.

I mean if for some reason DC was to license out their comic book publishing to IDW wouldn't it still attract writers and artists who see a shot at being part of a Batman movie as more likely than having their personal creation actually reach the screen without being part of the DC IP farm?

Most creatives are working for almost every company.

The only thing sending certain DC folks to IDW and others is how long that book would last.

Batman will be Batman no matter where he is.

HOWEVER Duke, Jace, Mother Panic, Gotham Academy, Cass, Stephanie and Damian would benefit more. You are not going to se 100K by their names. What you will see is those books being IDW or Boom top 10 sellers (if you don't have Batman and certain others).

You want to do 24 issues with Cass. You will have a better shot of doing that with her at Boom than DC. You chance of telling a complete story event free is also an option.

[DABellWrites]

I'll say this, I really doubt Zaslav is going to look at the comic book division. For a company that paid 43 billion dollars for WB, the comic book division is like a drip of water compared to the waterfall that is movies and television. Now, if Zaslav is looking at why manga is hot on the charts and not comics, then...

[Aahz]

Most creatives are working for almost every company.

The only thing sending certain DC folks to IDW and others is how long that book would last.

Batman will be Batman no matter where he is.

HOWEVER Duke, Jace, Mother Panic, Gotham Academy, Cass, Stephanie and Damian would benefit more. You are not going to se 100K by their names. What you will see is those books being IDW or Boom top 10 sellers (if you don't have Batman and certain others).

You want to do 24 issues with Cass. You will have a better shot of doing that with her at Boom than DC. You chance of telling a complete story event free is also an option.

Don't know if WB would licence all there characters to IDW they would likely also concentrate on the best selling ones, and would raise the bar when it comes to sales for their other books.

And since they have to pay the licence fees for the characters a book would have to sell more at IDW than at DC to be profitable.

If Dc would just license out their low selling charcaters and keep Batman Superman ect., I think it would really depend on the characters. I think characters like Duke, Jace, Cass, Stephanie and Damian would suffer if they are permanently separated from the rest of the Batfamily (and can maybe not use the iconic mantels like Batgirl and Robin), some of the characters that are not part of another franchise, or some of the Vertigo series, or stuff like Milestone and Wildstorm might have a better chance there.

[Triniking1234]

I think it comes down to what YOU want.

You want to do ALL that work on Cassandra Cain and see her ERASED because the boss hated her? Or Eli Bradley who is kept out of books or New X-Men kids that collect dust?

I would NOT want to create a character and do all that work and then see it treated like Black Panther is right now or get deemed TOXIC by the boss like Cassandra Cain.

And some ideas would NEVER survive at DC...

Something Killing Children would that book make it pass issue 6 at DC? If you had Question or Vixen or Zatanna as the lead? NO.
Mark Millar's Prodigy-who is nothing more than Mr Teriffic without the suit. Prodigy is set to become a tv series on Netflix. We are still waiting on Mr Teriffic named MICHAEL not CURTIS.
David Walker's Bitter Root. Other than the Foxes-what black family exists in DC? Steel's family is MIA outside of Natasha.
Rodney Barnes's Killadelphia-DC does not have any black vampires running around.
Lumberjanes outlast Gotham Academy.

You would be wasting good ideas to DC and those books would never see issue 7.






Most creatives are working for almost every company.

The only thing sending certain DC folks to IDW and others is how long that book would last.

Batman will be Batman no matter where he is.

HOWEVER Duke, Jace, Mother Panic, Gotham Academy, Cass, Stephanie and Damian would benefit more. You are not going to se 100K by their names. What you will see is those books being IDW or Boom top 10 sellers (if you don't have Batman and certain others).

You want to do 24 issues with Cass. You will have a better shot of doing that with her at Boom than DC. You chance of telling a complete story event free is also an option.

That's a lotta words just to say that indie books have more leeway than corporate ones.