The C2E2 Spider-man 60th Panel, some interesting things been said.

[Kevinroc]

I think they just wanted to write their own character but use a familiar (nick)name. They clearly didn't care to write anything resembling the comic book character.

They didn't even write a proper romance arc in general. She's very tsundere toward Peter in Homecoming, then she says her nickname is MJ at the end of the movie, and then Peter falls completely in love with her between movies.

MCU romances are not good.

[Frontier]

MCU Flash Thompson was still a popular kid who bullied Peter Parker but was a big fan of Spider-Man. The change from meathead jock to smart kid was a big one, but they kept the other defining elements.

And I pointed out what traits of MCU MJ were still shared with comic MJ.

I think they just wanted to write their own character but use a familiar (nick)name. They clearly didn't care to write anything resembling the comic book character.

But she stops being her own character the moment they give her the nickname since that makes everyone assume she's just MCU Mary Jane.

[Huntsman Spider]

They didn't even write a proper romance arc in general. She's very tsundere toward Peter in Homecoming, then she says her nickname is MJ at the end of the movie, and then Peter falls completely in love with her between movies.

MCU romances are not good.

Which is why I've been saying for a long time that Spider-Man needs an MCU-set TV series more than he needs yet another set of movies. At this point, all the movies can do within a 2-hour limit is cherry-pick bits and pieces of 60 years of lore and mythos and try to stitch them together into something compelling, whereas a TV series, particularly a longform TV series, could address day-to-day developments in Spider-Man's life and the lives of his supporting castmates and would have more room to flesh out those developments.

[Kevinroc]

Which is why I've been saying for a long time that Spider-Man needs an MCU-set TV series more than he needs yet another set of movies. At this point, all the movies can do within a 2-hour limit is cherry-pick bits and pieces of 60 years of lore and mythos and try to stitch them together into something compelling, whereas a TV series, particularly a longform TV series, could address day-to-day developments in Spider-Man's life and the lives of his supporting castmates and would have more room to flesh out those developments.

The romances in the TV shows aren't that great either (at least the D+ shows since they're all Marvel Studios now).

[Lee]

They didn't even write a proper romance arc in general. She's very tsundere toward Peter in Homecoming, then she says her nickname is MJ at the end of the movie, and then Peter falls completely in love with her between movies.

MCU romances are not good.

That's a separate issue.

They could have written the best romance story in the world, but MCU MJ still would have been a completely different character.

On the other hand, they could have written a very comic faithful version of MJ without her being Peter's girlfriend.

[Frontier]

That's a separate issue.

They could have written the best romance story in the world, but MCU MJ still would have been a completely different character.

On the other hand, they could have written a very comic faithful version of MJ without her being Peter's girlfriend.

They could have also done a much more faithful take on Spider-Man but they felt the need to associate him with Iron Man and write him as some "happy go lucky" kid with a practically unrecognizable supporting cast.

[Kevinroc]

That's a separate issue.

They could have written the best romance story in the world, but MCU MJ still would have been a completely different character.

On the other hand, they could have written a very comic faithful version of MJ without her being Peter's girlfriend.

They could have had a more comic accurate Peter Parker but they still made him a Tony Stark fanboy who wanted to live up to his mentor. Also, what's the deal with Uncle Ben in the MCU?

[Lee]

They changed too much for my liking, but most of the fundamentals of the Peter Parker/Spider-Man character were there, with some weird additions.

The fundamentals of the Mary Jane Watson character weren't present in Michelle Jones Watson at all.

[Huntsman Spider]

The romances in the TV shows aren't that great either (at least the D+ shows since they're all Marvel Studios now).

Fair enough.

They could have also done a much more faithful take on Spider-Man but they felt the need to associate him with Iron Man and write him as some "happy go lucky" kid with a practically unrecognizable supporting cast.

The funny part is that his original appearance in Captain America: Civil War does hint at some serious past tragedy (see: "When you can do the things I can do, but you don't . . . when the bad things happen, they happen because of you"), and even Homecoming briefly alludes to such near the beginning with Peter admitting to Ned that the reason he doesn't tell Aunt May that he's Spider-Man (and doesn't want Ned telling her, either) is that "she's been through enough." Alas, neither of those really get developed more, due to Homecoming generally choosing to focus on MCU Spidey being a high school kid in hilarious high school hijinks when he's not trying to impress Iron Man. At least the following two films were sort of a course correction in terms of Peter's overall characterization and development, as he learned some of the lessons 616 (and even Ultimate) Peter did the hard and painful way.

[Kevinroc]

They changed too much for my liking, but most of the fundamentals of the Peter Parker/Spider-Man character were there, with some weird additions.

The fundamentals of the Mary Jane Watson character weren't present in Michelle Jones Watson at all.

I've seen a few video arguments that say that they are that I don't think your interpretation is the be-all/end-all.

[Lee]

If it takes a video essay to explain the similarities between Mary Jane and Michelle Jones, that's more of a sign of how dissimilar they are.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

It's not semantics. You keep telling everyone that OMD is "clearly" responsible for a loss in sales, but are much less bullish on the idea that undoing OMD will "clearly" significantly increase sales because the truth is you know it isn't true. Most fans do not care about the marriage one way or the other. They like reading Spider-Man comics.

We know that OMD is clearly responsible for a loss in sales because OMD actually happened and we saw the results. Whereas undoing OMD is, as of now, a hypothetical. Of course we can be more certain about something that happened over something that didn't happen yet. I don't understand how this is supposed to be a "gotcha".

"Most fans do not care about the marriage one way or the other" seems like an even less empirical statement to me than the idea that the worst-reviewed Spider-Man story of all time is responsible for the drop in sales post-OMD.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/07...cters-nickname

"Clearly" the MCU variant of MJ everyone is thinking of. Except the producers say definitively she's not. And she has a different name, and a different personality and backstory. She is not an aspiring model/actress with an outgoing personality; she's a moody, sarcastic member of the Academic Decathalon team. The actress herself said she was inspired by Ally Sheedy's character from "The Breakfast Club." You couldn't get much further than Mary Jane Watson than that.
If the characteristics of MJ are so mutable that you can change her appearance, name, personality, and backstory and still claim she's the same, is she really all that great of a character?

I really like Mary Jane as a character. I think the story where she reveals that she has known that Peter was Spider-man for a while, and then also reveals the painful backstory of her father and sister was a terrific piece of character work by Tom DeFalco and Ron Frenz.

You're linking an article from the pre-Homecoming days when Zendaya's character was still intentionally rooted in mystery. I don't see how this article debunks the past 5 years of marketing and screentime that said otherwise.

The others have done a great job explaining how MCU MJ is still an 'MJ'. I'm not going to sound redundant and repeat what they said.

What I don't like is how they had to ignore or change a lot of her characteristics while writing her as Peter's wife. I wonder if you consider Michelle Jones to be the same as Mary Jane Watson, if you're really as big a fan as you claim you are.

I frankly don't care if you think I'm not a fan of MJ.

Sounds like somebody hasn't read any of JMS' Spider-Man's run.

"I call you boss because I know it bugs you. Don't let it get to your head."

-616 Peter to Tony Stark

[Kevinroc]

If it takes a video essay to explain the similarities between Mary Jane and Michelle Jones, that's more of a sign of how dissimilar they are.

You can just admit you don't want to watch the video essay.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

MCU MJ had far more in common with 616 MJ than MCU Peter ever did with 616 Peter. Name change aside, if we count the mutation that is Iron Man Jr as 616-faithful, it doesn't make much sense to not count Zendaya's MJ.

[TinkerSpider]

What I don't like is how they had to ignore or change a lot of her characteristics while writing her as Peter's wife.

They did no such thing. MJ was consistent with how she was portrayed since Stern brought her back to the book and DeFalco added her back story and she became Peter's confidante.

Who actually ignores her established character? Dan Slott and Zeb Wells.

MCU MJ had far more in common with 616 MJ than MCU Peter ever did with 616 Peter. Name change aside, if we count the mutation that is Iron Man Jr as 616-faithful, it doesn't make much sense to not count Zendaya's MJ.

I have to agree. If you are going to die on the hill that MCU Peter is a faithful adaption of 616 Peter, then MCU MJ is just as faithful. Which is to say, neither are a direct translation of the comics and that's okay. It's a multiverse, which the last film made very clear.

But elements are there:

MJ is one of the very few who are trusted with Peter's secret; his trusted confidante
Has issues with her father (Zendaya's MJ doesn't want to use her birthname of Watson)
Wears a mask (616 MJ wears the party girl mask; Zendaya wears the disaffected loner mask)
Creates cover for and aids Spider-Man as much as is in her power
Civilian; is not a fellow superhero or a villain
Loves all of Peter, not just his civilian persona or his superhero persona
Peter loves her and puts her foremost in his thoughts
MJ is more street smart to Peter's book smarts
MJ is more adept at reading people

I'll also point out that MCU Peter finally starts to approach 616 Peter in the final scenes of Far From Home - who knows what the next triology will bring for both characters?

(And Far From Home was a far superior telling of OMIT/OMD, with MJ playing pretty much the same part in the proceedings, than the comics.)

Last, Zendaya herself plays with MJ's iconography; she's changed her hair to red for Spider-Man film premieres and press junkets. This is from the Far From Home premiere.

yluqw0P.jpg