The C2E2 Spider-man 60th Panel, some interesting things been said.

[TinkerSpider]

They can get that from any number of books. And the Spider-Man books have had plenty of romcom elements in it since 2008. The Spider-marriage isn’t coming back. And now that it’s clear that that isn’t what Marvel wants to do with the character, those readers should either accept it or move on.

No, this is just because they’ve been told they can’t have it and that bothers them.

That's, like, your opinion, man.

I think people who want Peter to be to be a forever single sad sack loser who can’t hold onto a job or a relationship because he is an incompetent manbaby are inherently incapable of forming deep bonds with other people or even conceiving of such thing, and it bothers them to see their favorite character want to share his life with a woman.

[Spider-Chan]

Can't believe that one guy who asked about the marriage single-handedly ruined Marvel's Black Cat/MJ announcement day

[NC_Yankee]

Three times. OMD is not only one of the worst Spider-Man stories, it's widely considered to be one of the worst comic book stories, period. And followed by resetting Peter to being an incompetent manbaby for most of BND/Slott.

But IMO that's because Marvel was/is run by middle aged men who don't want to portray their manly men superheroes (with the exception of Reed, but that's because he's not a manly man, he's The Dad) in romantic relationships of equals and they especially don't want a female character to be the second most important character and to have to write her as a fully fledged character in her own right and not just as an object for the occasional nookie/to feel bad over.

Your mileage may vary, of course.



IMO, that would satisfy the majority of readers.



That's a personal and rather uncharitable opinion aimed at other people, not about the book or character at all.

People have all sorts of reasons for preferring a status. Maybe they are happily married and want the same for their favorite character. Maybe they grew up with married status and honestly prefer it. Maybe they want Peter and MJ to give them hope they can have a relationship like that someday for themselves. Maybe they just think they're cute together. Maybe they miss the MJ cheesecake when it was permissable to draw her in lingerie or less because after all, they're married, what else is she going to sleep in? Maybe they liked how MJ was Peter's true north, and kept him focused on doing the right thing even when he wanted to give up. Maybe they liked how Peter and MJ were also best friends and they enjoyed how he always had a confidante to talk things over or bounce ideas off. Maybe they believe in soulmates and liked seeing Peter and MJ portrayed as such. Maybe they are romantics at heart who won't be caught dead watching a romcom but they liked seeing some romcom elements in a comic book. The list is endless.

100% correct. The thing that disturbs me the most is game that Marvel is playing with fans of the marriage ( like a cat playing with a mouse). If they want a strictly Spider-Man comic then just do it. Remove MJ, Felicia, JJJ, Aunt May and to a large extent Peter from the book, and just focus on Spider-Man fighting villains ( of course that means the Peter homeless and without a job storyline must end as well). But Marvel does not have the balls to do that ( because of a well founded fear sales would sink). Of course, there is also Miles who they can use to focus strictly on Spider-Man ( for those who want those kind of stories). Using Peter for adults and Miles for teens and younger requires common sense, which is lacking at the Marvel office.

[Celgress]

Well, I think it's time I dropped Amazing again. I'll follow Miles, but, I can't take any more misery from Peter when there is literally no hope or even false hope that Peter's life will ever improve. I don't enjoy torture porn.

[WebLurker]

The fact is that the marriage is a creative dead-end.

Recall a quote from the people who made Parks and Recreation on why thinking that having the would-be couple get together ending the story is a poison to story crafting (couldn't find the exact quote, but the show followed that principle). They literally did two side series with them as a married couple that found new stuff to do with them. Good writing is finding a new hook with any starting point. The marriage is no more a dead end than anything else. Heck, at this point, MJ is the "OTP" character of the franchise a al Lois Lane, so there would be more creative integrity in just leaning into that and mining it for all its worth than constantly cycling between temporary love interests that aren't going to amount to anything in the long run (and a more accurate reflection of the brand's identity as a whole).

But that's my personal opinion, and I accept others have different ones (especially on these boards) What I object to is the kind of echo chamber revisionist history that gives the Spider-marriage credit for all of the sales increases in the comics industry in the late 80s and early 90s and assumes fallaciously that that view is shared widely by readers when there is no evidence that the majority of readers even care one way or the other. It's been fifteen years--if the end of the marriage was going to tank Spider-Man's sales, it would've done it long before now. Most folks don't care.

I will agree inasmuch that sales have shown it's not enough of a factor (a reason I am coming to think that brand identity and synergy is a stronger argument).

[Lee]

And, again, sales across the board aren't as sysemic as you like to imagine they are compared to the peak of the 80s and 90s.

That's irrelevant. Remarrying Peter and MJ isn't going to bring back '80s and '90s sales figures. It isn't going to bring back Civil War sales figures. And those sales figures weren't the direct result of Spider-Man's marital status at the time.

Renew Your Vows lasted three years, that's considerably more than the lifespan of your average satellite title, and only ended when Peter and MJ were re-established as a couple under Nick Spencer.

It was also an alternate universe that had bad art teams, creative difficulties, and barely any promotion.

Renew Your Vows had a decent enough lifespan, but it's proof that Internet fan forums overstate how much value "THE AUDIENCE" puts on Peter and MJ being married. The way people talk on here and other forums, you'd think that Peter and MJ being married is the number one most important factor in THE AUDIENCE's Spider-Man purchasing decisions.

The reality is that what people are calling "the audience" is only a small segment of ultra hardcore fans. For the majority, the past 15 years have proven that Peter's single status isn't a deal breaker that will make them drop Amazing Spider-Man, and the marriage wasn't enough of a draw to pick up the Renew Your Vows ongoing series in big enough numbers every month.

People have been saying that they dropped Renew Your Vows because of the change in creative team. Did any of them write in to Marvel to say that they love the idea of Renew Your Vows, but weren't thrilled with the new team? If not, then how is Marvel supposed to know? Is anyone writing in to Marvel saying that they'd love to see that version of the Parker family in the new Spider-Verse story?

People are pointing to The Lost Hunt as a victory or sign of things to come for fans of Peter & MJ's marriage. But the selling point of The Lost Hunt is that it's J M DeMatteis telling a "lost" Kraven story. Are any of the fans writing in to Marvel to let them know that they're pre-ordering the mini-series specifically because they want to read stories where Peter and MJ are married? If not, then how is Marvel supposed to know that's the reason it sold, and not because it was DeMatteis writing a new Spider-Man vs Kraven story?

There are positive ways to let Marvel know what you want married Peter/MJ comics, and stand a decent chance of getting it. It just won't be in the core continuity, it'll be untold tales or alternate universes.

People argued with Slott because he went off on an "never ever never" rant. But not even Dan, hate to break the news, is clairvoyant and can predict the future into infinity. Dan cannot predict when the current Marvel power clique of middle aged men closer to retirement than Peter Parker's age finally leave due to attritition or being replaced, and comic sales drop because millennials are the generation mostly interested in comics while Gen Z is not as interested in superheroes or invested fan behavior such as cosplay, while the price of comics is skyrocketing (to buy the first six issues on the day of publication of Wells's run cost ~$30, and was the same price paper or digital, even though digital doesn't have a collectible value. Now multiple that across multiple titles, then compare the cost of buying comics to the cost of going to a film or buying a novel or buying a video game and how many hours of entertainment you get from other media compared to comics). And then Marvel needs a big sales stunt.

So Dan can make multiple passionate posts about "never ever never" but he's not Madame Web. Sorry.

This comes across like you just don't want to know how the sausage is made, and refuse to believe it when someone who works in the sausage factory tells you how the sausage is made.

Dan Slott said that Marvel, on a corporate level, does not want Spider-Man to be married, that it goes above the editor in chief of Marvel Comics.

This shouldn't come as much surprise given how valuable Spider-Man is to Marvel Entertainment and Disney, and what their target demographics are.

It is what it is. I wouldn't hold my breath for Spider-Man to be married again any more than I would for Mickey Mouse to drink beer again.

[TinkerSpider]

This comes across like you just don't want to know how the sausage is made, and refuse to believe it when someone who works in the sausage factory tells you how the sausage is made.

Dan Slott said that Marvel, on a corporate level, does not want Spider-Man to be married, that it goes above the editor in chief of Marvel Comics.

This shouldn't come as much surprise given how valuable Spider-Man is to Marvel Entertainment and Disney, and what their target demographics are.

It is what it is. I wouldn't hold my breath for Spider-Man to be married again any more than I would for Mickey Mouse to drink beer again.

You seem to have quite the recall of things Dan Slott has said. I will remind you Dan is not Madame Web, he cannot absolutely predict what will happen five or ten or fifty years from now. I doubt monthly comic books will be printed fifteen years from now, anyway.

I’m just going to sit here and chuckle at the idea I don’t know how the sausage is made at media companies. That makes me giggle. Thank you for the laugh.

[Kevinroc]

That's irrelevant. Remarrying Peter and MJ isn't going to bring back '80s and '90s sales figures. It isn't going to bring back Civil War sales figures. And those sales figures weren't the direct result of Spider-Man's marital status at the time.



Renew Your Vows had a decent enough lifespan, but it's proof that Internet fan forums overstate how much value "THE AUDIENCE" puts on Peter and MJ being married. The way people talk on here and other forums, you'd think that Peter and MJ being married is the number one most important factor in THE AUDIENCE's Spider-Man purchasing decisions.

The reality is that what people are calling "the audience" is only a small segment of ultra hardcore fans. For the majority, the past 15 years have proven that Peter's single status isn't a deal breaker that will make them drop Amazing Spider-Man, and the marriage wasn't enough of a draw to pick up the Renew Your Vows ongoing series in big enough numbers every month.

People have been saying that they dropped Renew Your Vows because of the change in creative team. Did any of them write in to Marvel to say that they love the idea of Renew Your Vows, but weren't thrilled with the new team? If not, then how is Marvel supposed to know? Is anyone writing in to Marvel saying that they'd love to see that version of the Parker family in the new Spider-Verse story?

People are pointing to The Lost Hunt as a victory or sign of things to come for fans of Peter & MJ's marriage. But the selling point of The Lost Hunt is that it's J M DeMatteis telling a "lost" Kraven story. Are any of the fans writing in to Marvel to let them know that they're pre-ordering the mini-series specifically because they want to read stories where Peter and MJ are married? If not, then how is Marvel supposed to know that's the reason it sold, and not because it was DeMatteis writing a new Spider-Man vs Kraven story?

There are positive ways to let Marvel know what you want married Peter/MJ comics, and stand a decent chance of getting it. It just won't be in the core continuity, it'll be untold tales or alternate universes.

Considering Slott wrote the original RYV, and co-created Annie, I would be very surprised if the family didn't show up in the new Spider-Verse event. Particularly given Annie's role as the "pattern maker." (As detailed in Spider-Geddon, which Slott's friend and frequent collaborator Christos Gage wrote. I know Slott also wrote some ideas that were used in Spider-Geddon but can't remember the full extent of his involvement at this time.)

This comes across like you just don't want to know how the sausage is made, and refuse to believe it when someone who works in the sausage factory tells you how the sausage is made.

Dan Slott said that Marvel, on a corporate level, does not want Spider-Man to be married, that it goes above the editor in chief of Marvel Comics.

This shouldn't come as much surprise given how valuable Spider-Man is to Marvel Entertainment and Disney, and what their target demographics are.

It is what it is. I wouldn't hold my breath for Spider-Man to be married again any more than I would for Mickey Mouse to drink beer again.

Can't wait for Mickey to enter public domain and start drinking beer again, lol.

[Celgress]

...Can't wait for Mickey to enter public domain and start drinking beer again, lol.

Oh, with the building anti-Disney attitude out there (some of it deserved some of it not) I'm sure he'll be depicted doing far worse things than that when the time comes.

[Kevinroc]

Oh, with the building anti-Disney attitude out there he'll be doing far worse than that when the time comes.

That goes without saying, lol. Did you see what they're doing to Winnie the Pooh now that he's in the public domain?

[Celgress]

That goes without saying, lol. Did you see what they're doing to Winnie the Pooh now that he's in the public domain?

Yup, I have indeed, those sickos. I'm both disgusted and amused by their antics.

Edit - At this point, I almost wish Spidey was public domain. Hey, if he was public domain we'd at least get original nay very original and likely very *ahem* interesting content rather than "Kraven's Absolute We Promise This Time For Reals Last Hunt".

[Kevinroc]

Can't believe that one guy who asked about the marriage single-handedly ruined Marvel's Black Cat/MJ announcement day

It's hard to get excited about it when they didn't even announce a creative team or seemingly not show off any art, lol.

(It's probably going to be Jed MacKay writing.)

[Celgress]

It's hard to get excited about it when they didn't even announce a creative team or seemingly not show off any art, lol.

(It's probably going to be Jed MacKay writing.)

Silly, that's because they don't care. The project is only so Pete's top two love interests stay away from him for a while - see MJ's boring stint as Tony Stark's assistant from a few years back. At least we might get a funny little book out of it.

[TinkerSpider]

Considering Slott wrote the original RYV, and co-created Annie, I would be very surprised if the family didn't show up in the new Spider-Verse event. Particularly given Annie's role as the "pattern maker." (As detailed in Spider-Geddon, which Slott's friend and frequent collaborator Christos Gage wrote. I know Slott also wrote some ideas that were used in Spider-Geddon but can't remember the full extent of his involvement at this time.)

After how atrociously and mean-spiritedly Slott wrote Mayday and her family in the first Spider-Verse, I hope no other Parker family shows up. Slott created Annie and creators get a royalty/equity if the characters appear in other media so she will probably be spared so as not to harm any future chances of being used, but MJ as Spinneret who was created by Conway & Stegman? Pray for her. Especially since Slott appeared to go out of his way to destroy any prior happy Peter and MJ relationship except for Stan Lee’s newspaper strip as well as killed off the MJ Spider-Woman.

Can't wait for Mickey to enter public domain and start drinking beer again, lol.

Just two more years LOL

And Disney is happy to sell you alcoholic beverages themed to Minnie or Mickey shot glasses. In fact, that was one thing that was set in stone and would never ever never change: no alcohol would ever be sold at Disneyland or the Magic Kingdom. That was a sacrosanct Walt rule.

Oh well.

[Lee]

You seem to have quite the recall of things Dan Slott has said.

What's that supposed to mean? It's right here on this forum. You can look it up. It's all in this thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...er-be-reversed

I will remind you Dan is not Madame Web, he cannot absolutely predict what will happen five or ten or fifty years from now. I doubt monthly comic books will be printed fifteen years from now, anyway.

I’m just going to sit here and chuckle at the idea I don’t know how the sausage is made at media companies. That makes me giggle. Thank you for the laugh.

When it comes to the inner workings of Marvel Comics and the Spider-Man IP, I'm more inclined to believe Dan Slott.