The C2E2 Spider-man 60th Panel, some interesting things been said.

[RJT]

First, Amazing Spider-Man had its highest sustained monthly sales era and its highest single selling issue - Todd McFarlane’s Spider-Man #1 - in the period when Peter and MJ were married.

Correlation is not causation; Marvel comics in general had their highest sustained monthly sales era at the same time. Did X-Men #1 break all sales records because Spider-Man was married? It was the beginning of the speculation bubble—Spider-Man #1 was a new number one, written & drawn by the most popular Spider-Man artist of the decade, it had multiple covers. There’s as much evidence that the cover having a Spider-Man crotch shot is the reason for it being the best selling Spider-Man comic as the marriage.

[Lee]

I ask again. Do you know the inner workings of Marvel and Disney? Do you know who fans need to speak to on the subject?

Spider-Man is a very valuable IP owned by Disney. A Marvel Comics EIC doesn't have carte blanche with their flagship character when it comes to big permanent changes. Marvel is too big for that, Spider-Man is too big for that.

There was a thread on here a few years ago where Dan Slott said as much, and people tried to argue with him, as though it would make any difference.

There's nobody fans can speak to, it's a done deal.

All you can do is support an alternate universe project like "Renew Your Vows" when it comes along. Sales declined last time, so it got cancelled.

There's an awful lot of mixed signals.

I see no mixed signals in this panel. They're reiterating what they've been saying for the past 15+ years.

[Matt Rat]

All you can do is support an alternate universe project like "Renew Your Vows" when it comes along. Sales declined last time, so it got cancelled

Renew Your Vows had a number of factors working against it. Editorial intervention (MJ becoming Venom), Conway unhappy with the direction and walking (turns out he doesn't want Peter married either), aging Annie up, and an untested writer in Jodie Houser taking over (who wound up leaving Marvel for Titan, so teen Annie was left largely adrift), not to mention some atrocious artwork. And, again, AUs don't sell as much as we'd like them to.

That's why the latest book to feature the marriage, Lost Hunt, is specifically set in the 616 timeline, where it can matter more (although how much of it matters when the only Kraven presently running around is a clone I don't know)

That being said, Renew Your Vows still managed to last three and a half years, and by the time it stopped, Peter and MJ had gotten back together 'for real' in Spencer's run so it felt a little redundant.

I see no mixed signals in this panel. They're reiterating what they've been saying for the past 15+ years.

I meant in the sense they don't want Peter to be an adult yet they're set to publish a book set in a phase where he was one.

[Lee]

Renew Your Vows had a number of factors working against it. Editorial intervention (MJ becoming Venom), Conway unhappy with the direction and walking (turns out he doesn't want Peter married either), aging Annie up, and an untested writer in Jodie Houser taking over (who wound up leaving Marvel for Titan, so teen Annie was left largely adrift), not to mention some atrocious artwork. And, again, AUs don't sell as much as we'd like them to.

Perceived quality aside, the only tangible way to show Marvel Comics that you wanted to read new stories about Peter and Mary Jane as a married couple was to buy that comic. Not enough people bought it in the long run.

For all the talk about how the readership doesn't want an unmarried Peter Parker, Amazing Spider-Man keeps selling well with an unmarried Peter Parker.

And for all the talk about how the readership wants Peter and Mary Jane as a married couple, the comic with that premise didn't sell enough to sustain an ongoing series.

The reality is that Peter and MJ's marital status doesn't affect most of the readership's purchasing choices.

[NC_Yankee]

Doesn't the affirmation that Marvel doesn't care about the marriage and is having nothing to do with it put a bit of a crimp in that prediction?

Marvel may not care, but I am sure they are not happy with 900 ( did not exactly get critical acclaim and love from the readers ( it will be interesting to see the sales numbers)). Not to mention the overhyped 60th Anniversary of Spider-Man, has had one positively memorable comic so far ( and it was not even a Peter comic it was MJ and Felicia). They need to go forward with Peter, and for that matter Ben, Miles, Gwen and Miguel, and give something back to the readers ( the adage “The customer is always right” is still true). Bringing back the marriage is one sure fire way to do it. I would also include a steady job and his PhD as well.

[Kevinroc]

Spider-Man is a very valuable IP owned by Disney. A Marvel Comics EIC doesn't have carte blanche with their flagship character when it comes to big permanent changes. Marvel is too big for that, Spider-Man is too big for that.

There was a thread on here a few years ago where Dan Slott said as much, and people tried to argue with him, as though it would make any difference.

There's nobody fans can speak to, it's a done deal.

All you can do is support an alternate universe project like "Renew Your Vows" when it comes along. Sales declined last time, so it got cancelled.

You know it's acceptable to admit you do not know. Please stop speaking as if you do. Until such a time, fans will continue to talk to creatives and editors at Marvel as they have done for 15 years. As long as it isn't harassment/threatening, it's fine for fans to voice their displeasure.

[Lee]

You know it's acceptable to admit you do not know. Please stop speaking as if you do. Until such a time, fans will continue to talk to creatives and editors at Marvel as they have done for 15 years. As long as it isn't harassment/threatening, it's fine for fans to voice their displeasure.

You were in the thread on this forum where Dan Slott explained all of this 5 years ago, that it's a decision that goes beyond editorial, that there would be insurmountable obstacles in the way of remarrying Spider-Man. It's simply not on the cards and there's nothing any writer, editor or editor in chief at Marvel Comics can do about it.

Fans can voice their displeasure, but it won't won't get Spider-Man remarried.

Supporting the Renew Your Vows ongoing series would have been more productive, but the readership largely chose not to do that.

[The BaRoN]

You were in the thread on this forum where Dan Slott explained all of this 5 years ago, that it's a decision that goes beyond editorial, that there would be insurmountable obstacles in the way of remarrying Spider-Man. It's simply not on the cards and there's nothing any writer, editor or editor in chief at Marvel Comics can do about it.

Fans can voice their displeasure, but it won't won't get Spider-Man remarried.

Supporting the Renew Your Vows ongoing series would have been more productive, but the readership largely chose not to do that.

The drop happened after Conway and Stegman left, it’s no surprise Marvel switched to a completely untested new creative team because renew your vows was getting more praise than Amazing at the time.

They probably thought it’d get 12 issues and vanish to shut the marriage shippers up.

Either way, it’s over and the marriage is gone for the foreseeable future while this “editorial “ is in charge, no way anyone higher than C. B gives a damn about the marriage because it means nothing to the movies or tv shows.

This is a personal choice by Marvel comics with some very misguided views on the World and the people that read these comics.

Vote with your money and stop giving them what they want.

[Kevinroc]

You were in the thread on this forum where Dan Slott explained all of this 5 years ago, that it's a decision that goes beyond editorial, that there would be insurmountable obstacles in the way of remarrying Spider-Man. It's simply not on the cards and there's nothing any writer, editor or editor in chief at Marvel Comics can do about it.

Fans can voice their displeasure, but it won't won't get Spider-Man remarried.

Supporting the Renew Your Vows ongoing series would have been more productive, but the readership largely chose not to do that.

I'm saying it's important to let people complain. You don't need to tut tut people for expressing their unhappiness by defending a giant corporation worth billions of dollars.

You can argue that sales are good (relative to sales of the rest of this industry right now), but this run isn't exactly held in high regard by the SM comic fandom. Marvel Editorial knows that a sizeable portion of their audience is unhappy, knows why they're unhappy, and do nothing to change it except to tell their audience that nothing can be done about it. That's quite the business strategy.

[Frontier]

Just to keep the thread on a positive direction, I think another MJ and Black Cat series could be really fun.

I just hope they don't have to deal with the whole "Paul and kids" thing too much.

[Matt Rat]

I just hope they don't have to deal with the whole "Paul and kids" thing too much.

On the plus side, MJ can introduce the kids to crazy Aunt Felicia, a role many fans would have liked her to have around Peter and MJ's own kids

Felicia doesn't have to be the one to like Paul either, so we'll root for her to sabotage him and MJ in her own way.

[Frontier]

On the plus side, MJ can introduce the kids to crazy Aunt Felicia, a role many fans would have liked her to have around Peter and MJ's own kids

Felicia doesn't have to be the one to like Paul either, so we'll root for her to sabotage him and MJ in her own way.

I'm just not sure how much I want to see of these kids. Especially when they'll probably be gone by the end of the current run, if not earlier.

[RJT]

I'm saying it's important to let people complain. You don't need to tut tut people for expressing their unhappiness by defending a giant corporation worth billions of dollars.

You can argue that sales are good (relative to sales of the rest of this industry right now), but this run isn't exactly held in high regard by the SM comic fandom. Marvel Editorial knows that a sizeable portion of their audience is unhappy, knows why they're unhappy, and do nothing to change it except to tell their audience that nothing can be done about it. That's quite the business strategy.

I think the word “sizable” is doing a lot of work here. It seems like it’s sizable to you because you’re here where those who are unhappy come to voice their unhappiness. All the caveats in the world aside, Marvel gave you folks a book with a married Spider-Man and it didn’t sell super well. It’s possible that it didn’t sell well for all the reasons mentioned above or it might be because there really aren’t that many people who are fans of the Spider-marriage.
My supposition is that most readers don’t care too much. And the fact that Spider-man sales have been consistently at the top of the charts for the past decade shows that people read the book regardless of the marriage status. They just don’t really care that much

People here care a lot, but whenever entertainment companies listen to vocal fans on the internet, the results haven’t usually indicated that that vocal fan base translates into a larger audience. Renew Your Vows didn’t light the charts on fire. Nick Spencer’s run with Peter and MJ together didn’t perform drastically better than Slott’s run. There is no evidence that the Spider-marriage contingent is in any way “sizable”

[Matt Rat]

Renew Your Vows didn’t light the charts on fire.

It did when Slott wrote it, it also did when the Conway/Stegman version launched.

My supposition is that most readers don’t care too much

There aren't that many readers into current Spider-Man, or comics in general, compared to the years where they were married. Those 'consistent sales' are peanuts compared to the peak of the 80s and the speculator boom of the 90s and early Clone Saga.

And, as I stated, Renew Your Vows held it's own rather well over three years, especially in today's modern comic book sales climate, and only ended because Peter and MJ were together again in Spencer's run, so it wasn't needed.

Lost Hunt is coming out to cover the fall months while the main book gives us single Peter, giving readers another chance to support the marriage, and test the waters for it's inclusion in 616 again by setting the story firmly in the original canon.

[Kevinroc]

I think the word “sizable” is doing a lot of work here. It seems like it’s sizable to you because you’re here where those who are unhappy come to voice their unhappiness. All the caveats in the world aside, Marvel gave you folks a book with a married Spider-Man and it didn’t sell super well. It’s possible that it didn’t sell well for all the reasons mentioned above or it might be because there really aren’t that many people who are fans of the Spider-marriage.
My supposition is that most readers don’t care too much. And the fact that Spider-man sales have been consistently at the top of the charts for the past decade shows that people read the book regardless of the marriage status. They just don’t really care that much

People here care a lot, but whenever entertainment companies listen to vocal fans on the internet, the results haven’t usually indicated that that vocal fan base translates into a larger audience. Renew Your Vows didn’t light the charts on fire. Nick Spencer’s run with Peter and MJ together didn’t perform drastically better than Slott’s run. There is no evidence that the Spider-marriage contingent is in any way “sizable”

The first issue of the new run had the book's editor asking people to give the new run a chance while acknowledging people would be unhappy about Peter & MJ being broken up. This is not a thing you do if you think the Peter x MJ shippers are not a sizable part of the audience.