What do you think of when you hear the phrase ''classic Superman''?

[bat39]

I'm disappointed no one else has tried to play comic book detective. I'd like to know where that panel came from.

I see adaptations to other media as being on a delay, so it's hard to use the "Classic" term for them in the same way we use it for comic books. When it comes to Superman, I consider the comic books the Definitive Concept.

The original 1966 stage play of IT'S A BIRD…IT'S A PLANE…IT'S SUPERMAN was clearly nostalgic for the past and using old comic books for its source material. David Newman and Robert Benton, who wrote the book for the musical, probably were just as influenced by the two Kirk Alyn serials from 1948 and 1950. That seems a stronger influence than the George Reeves version or contemporary comic books at the time.

David Newman and Robert Benton, along with Leslie Newman, were the script doctors brought in to make changes to Mario Puzo's screenplay for the first two Christopher Reeve movies--with Tom Mankiewicz writing the final draft. And you can see the Newman and Benton touches in those movies as they're drawing from the same influences as in their musical.

LOIS AND CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN is maybe taking more from the THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN T.V. show. It's supposed to be an adaptation of the Mike Carlin edited comics of the day, but it brings in a lot of goofy baggage from the distant past that Carlin would have torched with a flame thrower.

SMALLVILLE, on the face of it, seems to owe its basic concept to the Byrne reboot and Jeph Loeb's SUPERMAN FOR ALL SEASONS--although I'd say it's more DAWSON'S CREEK mixed with ROSWELL, in the beginning. But a lot of the ideas come straight out of Classic Superboy comics--such as the idea that Lex and Clark are friends.

MAN OF STEEL, as well as the sequels, might be more up to date, but it's really drawing on the comics from the 1990s for its ideas--so it's also twenty years out of date.

This makes sense because 1) it takes a long time to develop a concept from any source material and 2) the creatives tend to be folks who are looking at the Superman from their childhood for inspiration.

As for Classic comic books, here's what I said on that other thread--

Yeah, that's a great point...adaptations that become iconic enough not only add to the ''classic'' vision of a character, but influence other adaptations in turn.

I must admit I know next to nothing about the Kirk Ayln serials or the musical...need to change that! I definitely didn't know that they influenced the Donner movie. To be honest, I've never been very clear on precisely what comics or previous adaptations influenced the Donner movie, besides some vague notion that it must have been the then-contemporary Bronze Age comics, which presented a somewhat more serious and stripped-down version of Superman and his mythos compared to the Silver Age. In stark contrast, I can easily list all the influences on Burton's first Batman movie.

[JBatmanFan05]

From SupermanHomepage's Intro (by Steve Younis) to its Classic Who's Who section:

The decade of the 1950s proved to be a bountiful and definitive period of time for the Man of Steel. Core elements of the Superman Legend would see the light of day, while those concepts and ideas which were introduced in the 1940s, would be expanded upon. This is the decade that would produce the definitive Superman who would be in print for more than 30 years, and pave the way for the Superman storyline all fans follow today.
Let's begin with Superman himself. Introduced in 1938, Superman would usher in a Golden Age of comic books, and become the first super-hero in existence. But during his early years, his powers took time to be completely defined by the writers and artists working on him. His look was also in a state of flux, as the original Superman, as illustrated by co-creator Joe Shuster, was clearly a man of average height and build - but a man of superhuman might. Artist Wayne Boring would come along afterwards, and be the first to depict Superman as a big, brawny Man of Steel.

Other elements were in a state of change as well: originally starting as a reporter for the Daily Star, Clark Kent would ultimately work for the Daily Planet. The city of Metropolis, the main setting for Superman's adventures, was also slowly developed. And of course, there are the villains! While the Ultra-Humanite and later Lex Luthor emerged as super-villains, the bulk of Superman's enemies were less than super, and many of them were more comical than cunning.

The 1950s changed Superman forever! America and the world were shaped and improved by modern technology. Ironically, the science fiction elements which pioneered Superman - yet were minimally used under the stewardship of creators Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, now became the core essence of Superman's storyline. Interplanetary escapades, futuristic adventures, and cosmic characters finally had a role in the Superman saga. Beginning in this decade, fans were introduced to true super-villains, whose origins stemmed from the greatest aspects of science fiction. Whether it was the imperfect imitation of life known as Bizarro, or the ultimate green-skinned, alien invader Brainiac, fans were finally given true super-villains for which Superman could prove his might. And then there was Krypton! Long gone as a planet, its impact upon Superman was expanded in ways never expected, but greatly appreciated. Chunks of kryptonite proved poisonous for Superman, and provided Lex Luthor with a new weapon with which to conquer the Ultimate Champion of Justice! And even though Superman was the Last Son of Krypton, he wasn't the only man to outlive Krypton's destruction, as General Zod, Jax-Ur, Mala, Quex-El, and several other villains would prove, and serve as evil counterparts of the Man of Steel. And Superman was not alone, as a hero from Krypton: Krypto the Superdog and Supergirl would join the Man of Tomorrow in the fight for truth, justice, and the American way!

Another part of Superman's legend was Superboy. Introduced during the 1940s as a younger, mischievous version of Superman, the 1950s would reveal Superboy as a champion in the making, a truly youthful incarnation of the Superman we would know and love. Instead of protecting the big city of Metropolis, Superboy defended the little town of Smallville. And fans would come to know how instrumental Jonathan and Martha Kent were as foster parents, instilling key virtues to their adoptive son, who upon their passing, became the Superman of legend. The Legion of Super-Heroes, which was introduced in the pages of Superboy, would become a franchise itself, yet still a vital portion of the Superman saga.

By the time the 1970s came along, the world of Superman was greatly established. The biggest change to come was that Clark Kent, always a prominent reporter for the Daily Planet, was moved to television, where he became a news anchor for the Galaxy Broadcasting System. Media mogul Morgan Edge was introduced, and he was characterized as an overbearing blowhard, constantly barking out orders to his employees - including Clark Kent. The Superman comics proved to be ahead of the times, as Edge was the first of fiction's most prominent media barons, as his Galaxy Communications owned both the GBS national television network, and the Daily Planet newspaper. Morgan Edge would predate the mainstream popularity of Ted Turner, Rupert Murdoch, and other multimedia moguls - men who would play a big part in the American entertainment industry throughout the modern era of communications. S.T.A.R. Labs, another part of Superman's world, was introduced during this period. Existing as an independent research laboratory, dedicated to mastering science and technology, S.T.A.R. Labs served as a major set piece, where Superman would always go to, if ever, he needed exta help and advice from scientists.

The villains of the 1970s and 1980s would be just as determined to challenged Superman, as well. Many of them were cut from the same cloth as the super baddies of the 1950s and 1960s, but these guys were good enough to leave a lasting impression on readers. The Parasite, Terra Man, Mongul, the Atomic Skull, Lord Satanis and his estranged wife Syrene, and even classic DC Comics foils Solomon Grundy and Vandal Savage would prove to be persistent pest for Superman to swat at. Even Lex Luthor and Brainiac would enhance their appearances by the 1980s, with Luthor now wearing an advanced suit of armor, and Brainiac becoming the ultimate form of cyberlife.

And let's not forget Batman. Superman #76 (May-June 1952), debuted the world's finest team-up, as DC Comics' two greatest super-heroes finally united to fight crime. From there, the duo would routinely unite in World's Finest Comics, and become lifelong friends - sharing secret identities and passes to the Fortress of Solitude and the Batcave. Together, Superman and Batman would battle classic menaces such as the Moonman and the Composite Superman. And between his team-ups with Batman and the formation of the Justice League of America, it was clear that Superman was the leading hero, as others looked onto him for helmsmanship and guidance. Superman was far more than the clean-up hitter for the Justice League of America, as 1970s and 1980s comics would illustrate. With his work in the JLA, Superman was exposed to more super criminals who would step up to the plate against the Man of Steel. Such villains as Amazo, Dr. Light, Kanjar-Ro, Hyathis, Brain Storm, and the Queen Bee would all spill over from the pages of Justice League of America, and into Superman and Action Comics, and become instant members of Superman's Rogues Gallery.

From the 1950s to the 1980s, this is the era which Superman Classic will cover. This period of time exposed generations of readers to prominent people, places, and things that mattered in the realm of Superman. Even today, as John Byrne served as the catalyst for 1986's relaunch of the Superman legend, the characters introduced - though slightly altered - have stayed with Superman's storyline. And as we move further into the 21st Century, writers and artists are reaching back into this era, to cull colorful storylines and characters now seen in Superman comics. With Superman Classic, the Superman Homepage wishes to immortalize the Man of Steel from a bygone era, whose popularity and fame inspired millions of readers, and served as the basis for several cartoons, live action television shows, and the reknowned Superman movies released between 1978 and 1987.

https://www.supermanhomepage.com/com...ssic-intro.php

[Sacred Knight]

To me, essentially everything the Fleischer cartoons represent is "Classic Superman" to me.

[bat39]

From SupermanHomepage's Intro (by Steve Younis) to its Classic Who's Who section:

https://www.supermanhomepage.com/com...ssic-intro.php

Ah, the Superman Homepage. Spent a lot of time on that website as a kid!

Yeah, I guess broadly I'd agree with this. They've kind of taken together the entire 30+ years that encompassed the pre-Silver Age, Silver Age and Bronze Age. Which is fair enough...the Bronze Age in general was a sort of ''maturing'' process for the Silver Age. My point is that the Bronze Age, visually and tonally, really defines what most modern fans may think of the ''classic'' Superman more so than the craziness and wild excesses of the peak Silver Age.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the Silver Age was a period of WILD invention for Superman, the likes of which has perhaps never really been seen again. But it's the Bronze Age that chiselled that into something close to the version we have today.

And as mentioned earlier on this thread, its probably the late Golden Age/pre-Silver Age period (which I guess kinda gets covered by the Superman Homepage definition) that did a lot to forge the earliest understanding of what made for a ''classic'' Superman.

[Jim Kelly]

I never have used the Superman Homepage much. It always seemed a bit too industrial for me. As a middle-aged man I spent an appropriate amount of time on Superman Through the Ages, which had the homey feeling I preferred.

I've never gone in for these categories. It makes it seem like the editors were intentionally creating new ages, rather than responding to changing circumstances as they happened, which would force them to develop the characters in different directions as time passed.

Maybe, in hindsight, fans can look back and superimpose a system onto these changes, but that's not how it actually happened. I simply think that's misleading. If you have new people just getting into the comics and they're presented with this system, it influences how they'll read the stories. I'd rather not do that to unsuspecting minds.

[bat39]

I never have used the Superman Homepage much. It always seemed a bit too industrial for me. As a middle-aged man I spent an appropriate amount of time on Superman Through the Ages, which had the homey feeling I preferred.

I've never gone in for these categories. It makes it seem like the editors were intentionally creating new ages, rather than responding to changing circumstances as they happened, which would force them to develop the characters in different directions as time passed.

Maybe, in hindsight, fans can look back and superimpose a system onto these changes, but that's not how it actually happened. I simply think that's misleading. If you have new people just getting into the comics and they're presented with this system, it influences how they'll read the stories. I'd rather not do that to unsuspecting minds.

Superman Through the Ages is another great site...and yeah, I get what you mean about the more 'homey' feeling.

As far as imposing these categorizations go, you're absolutely right that they are all retrospective (the idea of something being ''classic'' is of course purely retrospective as well ). There really isn't a clear-cut universally accepted transition from the Golden Age to the Silver Age, for instance, probably because the 'Golden Age' only became the 'Golden Age' by the time what we now know as the 'Silver Age' was already underway. Over time, it became easy to demarcate the 40's as the Golden Age, and the 60's as the Silver Age, but the 50's, particularly the early 50's, were a nebulous period that have at various times been claimed as part of both eras, or considered a different transitional era of its own. And when you get down to specific characters, the lines become blurrier - is the Superman of 1950 the Golden Age Superman or the Silver Age Superman? A lot of people claim, for some reason, that the story that introduced the Fortress of Solitude in 1958 was the 'start' of the Silver Age Superman...but are we to believe then that the first Brainiac story, published three years earlier, was a Golden Age story? And if we claim there's another era between the Golden Age and Silver Age (Atomic Age is the term its usually given), then when does that begin and end?

The irony though is that in the last 30-plus years, there has been a conscious effort to create 'new eras' and dividing lines, by DC and Marvel alike. COIE was the start of it of course, beginning what's called the 'Modern Age'. But are we still in the 'Modern Age'? For DC or for Marvel? Because there have been a bunch of other 'ages', most of them not lasting more than a few years. Funnily enough, despite the Big Two doing their best to constantly create new eras, there's no consensus, not even a broad one, on what all the eras since the Bronze Age should be called or when they supposedly began or ended.

[Stanlos]

To me, essentially everything the Fleischer cartoons represent is "Classic Superman" to me.

Soooooooo beautiful! Sooooooooo epic! And Supes was undeniably heroic!

[JBatmanFan05]

despite the Big Two doing their best to constantly create new eras, there's no consensus, not even a broad one, on what all the eras since the Bronze Age should be called or when they supposedly began or ended.

I maybe can't speak to a consensus or lack thereof, but I see at least part of the contours of some eras, but I think they might be specific to DC (or Marvel). COIE definitely (and I think fairly obviously) marked the beginning and/or end of some era for DC (and not simply because of course DC intended and stated it to be that way). Having read and custom bound 1980-1985 Batman comics (and many of the same Superman ones), you can definitely see a real shift that starts to take hold after DKR/COIE. By 1987/1988, it's a different enough somewhat darker/edgier DC than from, say, 1982/1983 DC.

[bat39]

I maybe can't speak to a consensus or lack thereof, but I see at least past of the contours of the some eras, but I think they might be specific to DC (or Marvel). COIE definitely (and I think fairly obviously) marked the beginning and/or end of some era for DC (and not simply because of course DC intended and stated it to be that way). Having read and custom bound 1980-1985 Batman comics (and many of the same Superman ones), you can definitely see a real shift that starts to take hold after DKR/COIE. By 1987/1988, it's a different enough somewhat darker/edgier DC than from, say, 1982/1983 DC.

Yeah COIE was definitely the big shift for DC and we typically consider it as the start of the 'Modern Age'. But the question is - how long did that Modern Age go on for? Or are we still in it? When did the next age after the Modern Age begin? Was it in 2011 with the New 52? Or earlier circa 2005-06 with COIE (or maybe a few years before that in 2004 with Green Lantern Rebirth, Birthright, and the start of the restoration of Silver Age characters and elements)?

When you consider the industry as a whole, when did the Bronze Age end? 1986 seems like a solid cut-off date for DC, but does that apply to Marvel? When did the Modern Age begin for Marvel? And when did it end?

[Johnny Thunders!]

I am not sure where else to put this so why not here. My idea of Classic Superman is definitely the 60's and 70's. Curt Swan's great stories of the Adult Legion all the way up to Garcia Lopez's Superman covers. That is probably where I am stuck so to speak. Having said that, I am currently reading the Byrne run of Superman and maybe it's as much how I have changed, but they read like classic Superman stories. Sure, he unexpectedly gets his cape torn to shreds and is beaten near unconscious way too often but for the most part, those stories read like Classic Superman stories. I just read Byrne's take on the Lori Lemaris romance and it affected me just like the original did when I was a kid. I think I have to say, Byrne's Superman, despite a few major quibbles I have with the character, is still Superman, and I thought I would never think that.

[yolo_dude]

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qi...e796b32758e-lq

Superman is always a friend. He's always here to help, no matter if it's in life, death, in between, etc. There's no hatred in him. If he must then he will fight you with everything he has, yet then promptly try to talk you to in hopes of changing you for the better. He cares about everyone.

[D.Z]

Silver age and Golden Age. EARTH 1 and 2.

[bat39]

So the past week, I watched several episodes of The Adventures of Superman aka George Reeves' show. I'd watched the Mole Man movie years ago, as well as the series' first episode, so it wasn't my introduction to Reeves' take on the character but this was the first time I'd really seen the show proper.

Needless to say, I loved the show. Yes, in some ways it is far cruder than any contemporary Superman media (or even something like Donner's 1978 film). It shows its age a little more than even Fleischer's cartoons I dare say. But it is gripping, most of the plot-lines still hold up, and the masterful performances by Reeves and Noell Neill (I unfortunately didn't watch any Phyllis Coates episodes this time round) as well as Jack Larson and John Hamilton are the true stars of the show! I particularly enjoyed the slightly noir-ish approach in the black-and-white seasons - Superman in a ''real world'' setting where he's the only sci-fi element is really true to the spirit of those early Siegal and Shuster stories.

Anyway, I would say that this show is definitely something I would probably add to my conception of what ''classic'' Superman is. At any rate, it probably served as a blueprint of sorts for the Superman comics and media that I consider ''classic''. Reeves' take on Clark Kent is very much the template for modern depictions of Clark from Byrne onwards. His Superman is a bit more of an overt tough-guy than most ''classic'' versions of Superman we're used to, but he still broadly fits within that classic mould and is nowhere near as much of an outlier as the original rough-and-tumble crusader/vigilante from the earliest comics. And as discussed earlier on this thread, the status quo of the show is as ''classic'' as it gets - Clark, Lois, Jimmy and Perry at the Daily Planet, the ''triangle for two'' (though its really understated here), Superman protecting Metropolis but having the odd larger-scale adventure etc.

[Jim Kelly]

THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN is an interesting case. It's following on the heels of the 1940s radio series and movie serials, but Ellsworth and Weisinger are both working on the T.V. show and those scripts make their way into their 1950s comic books. As well, Jack Larson and Noel Neill come to define Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane for that generation.

So, in a lot of ways, the T.V. show is what produces the later comics.

[bat39]

THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN is an interesting case. It's following on the heels of the 1940s radio series and movie serials, but Ellsworth and Weisinger are both working on the T.V. show and those scripts make their way into their 1950s comic books. As well, Jack Larson and Noel Neill come to define Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane for that generation.

So, in a lot of ways, the T.V. show is what produces the later comics.

True. I think the sheer overwhelming power of the Donner movie and Christopher Reeve's interpretation of Superman has displaced this show from the popular consciousness as THE definitive live-action take on the character. And certainly, Donner's influence on subsequent Superman media has been a lot more overt.

But I'd say the one BIG contribution this TV show, and George Reeves in particular, made to the Superman franchise was the depiction of Clark Kent as a dedicated, highly competent, hard-nosed and occasionally even tough reporter. The opening narration may have called Clark Kent a 'disguise' for Superman but Reeves' Clark was anything but a disguise, and really set the template for Post-Crisis Clark.

Of course, Clark Kent the ace journalist is something that actually goes back all the way to the earliest Siegal/Shuster stories as I realized when I read the first volume of the Golden Age Omnibus last year. Clark acted cowardly and timid around Lois and anyone else he knew, but that apart when he was out on the job he was every bit the fearless crusader that Superman was - indeed most Superman adventures began as Clark Kent's investigations. The show (thankfully) got rid of Clark acting like a weakling (at least in the episodes I've watched so far), but the rest of the dynamic is the same as in the early stories.