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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Think there were some Sith attempts at weakening the Republic even before Naboo-The events of "Cloak of Deception" are partially still canon (As they're mentioned in the Tarkin novel) so it seems they've been pushing the Trade Federation for quite some time.

    Wonder if the Eclipse game might cover that.
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  2. #17
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Was there any in universe explanation as to what happened to the officers that left the Death Star During the attack? I know one of them was in the Vader Comic and Vader served under him for a few till he proved himself in some game Palpy was playing.

    I just know that the Empire is big on following orders so a group of officers deserting their posts during an attack seems like a big thing to let slide.
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  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Yep, Tagge survived in the Disney continuity. We don't see him during the attack-just Tarkin & Motti really, so it's possible he didn't flee but had some other business to attend to and left before the DS went to Yavin. Last scene we see him in I think is when Tarkin sets course for Alderaan.


    In "Legends" it was sort of fanon that Chief Bast-the guy who warns Tarkin-survived because he shows up in the Holiday special (Using a redubbed deleted scene from A New Hope). Funny thing is he would've have to be really fast to escape, since he's the guy next to Tarkin when he gives the order to fire when ready....
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 08-23-2022 at 05:39 PM.
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  4. #19
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Yep, Tagge survived in the Disney continuity. We don't see him during the attack-just Tarkin & Motti really, so it's possible he didn't flee but had some other business to attend to and left before the DS went to Yavin. Last scene we see him in I think is when Tarkin sets course for Alderaan.


    In "Legends" it was sort of fanon that Chief Bast-the guy who warns Tarkin-survived because he shows up in the Holiday special (Using a redubbed deleted scene from A New Hope). Funny thing is he would've have to be really fast to escape, since he's the guy next to Tarkin when he gives the order to fire when ready....
    Thanks for the info. I can never remember that guys name.

    is General Veers leaving the Death Star still cannon? I read that a few years ago on one of those whos who of Star Wars he was one of the officers that did leave. But I havnt seen it mentioned any where else.
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  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Yes. It's possible he left with Tagge though, as Tagge was commander of the Imperial army. Also Tagge was planning to transfer command to Executor (in the Vader comics) when it was finished and Veers is later part of that crew although under the new commander, Vader. Veer's ultimate canon fate is unknown; there's a deleted scene where Hobbie crashes into his Walker killing them both. In the old canon he's killed in Dark Empire II.
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  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I like to think that the Empire’s at its best staffing and quality right after The Clone Wars… and then the Empire’s natural decay, stagnation, corruption and paranoia see good officers and soldiers retire in drives over 20 years, replaced by the vile, the naive, or the gullible, until the OT era, by which point the rebellion has a massively disproportionate advantage in the quality of their leadership in spite of their size.
    Completely agreed. And I love the fact that this despotism is what brings the Empire down; evil destroys itself in the end.

    I have always wondered why the Empire got rid of clone troopers *and* the droid armies. I can understand the "quantity over quality" argument, even if I don't agree with it, so that explains getting rid of clones. But the droids proved to be effective and I doubt training and equipping recruits, including the kids who were brainwashed and trained over the course of years, was that much cheaper.

    Just seems to me if Palpatine wanted a cheap, expendable military force he had one in the Separatist armies, infrastructure and everything already set in place. It could have been spun as part of reconciliation between loyalists and Separatists; putting the droids to good use protecting the people/systems of the Republic instead of terrorizing them.

    I still think that the speed at which Palpatine was able to undermine the entire Republic was remarkably quick. Yes, he had spent decades planting the seeds, orchestrated a massive civil war, used that to corrupt the Jedi, and all that was just the final steps in a Sith plot that had been brewing for centuries....but I still think it's remarkable that the Republic crumbled so quickly when push came to shove. Within just a few years, everything the Republic and Jedi had stood for, everything people thought about them, was turned on its head to such an incredible degree the Force itself was seen as a myth? When hundreds of Jedi had been active across the galaxy just a few years prior? That's a remarkable level of propaganda for Palpatine to bring to bear.

    And I'm not saying it's impossible. Look at how quickly groups in the real world are radicalized and come to believe big lies, no matter what kind of proof is presented to them. But for a government as big and varied as the Republic, it's still remarkable that it worked so well.
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  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I know that Lost Stars, in the current Disney canon, has the main characters and their clique of officers completely surprised by Alderaan’s destruction - I forget whether it was because they genuinely didn’t know it’s laser was designed to destroy planets, or if it simply hadn’t occurred to them that it might be used capriciously against a fully populate world.
    Think the Rogue One prologue novel and the film itself pretty much have the citizens and others of the Empire misinformed-they try to cover up Jedha city as a mining accident, for example. Even Galen Erso thinks he's working on some kind of way for harnessing energy using the crystals and when he finds out what it's really for, he quickly hides until Krennic finds him again.

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Pro...20Death%20Star.



    Han even seems to think maybe Alderaan was an asteroid collision and doesn't believe Obi-Wan's explanation at first.
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  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Might be going a bit off-topic here but it just occurred to me-although it seems to be a trope that Imperial officers have British accents, in the original film all of them have American accents (or even were British actors dubbed over!) with the exception of Tarkin and Tagge.

    However the sequels and spin-offs pretty much had the officers be all British (With some exceptions), or didn't dub over the voices.
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 08-28-2022 at 06:24 AM.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Might be going a bit off-topic here but it just occurred to me-although it seems to be a trope that Imperial officers have British accents, in the original film all of them have American accents (or even were British actors dubbed over!) with the exception of Tarkin and Tagge.

    However the sequels and spin-offs pretty much had the officers be all British (With some exceptions), or didn't dub over the voices.
    I think the explanation they wound up hitting on after the rest of the OT came out, where Lucas managed to more consistently cast British actors as Imperials, was that having a “Core Worlds” accent was more “fashionable” and that some of the Empire’s classs system troubles had infected the officer corps.

    I’ve also noticed that the Imperials in the Mandalorian show tend to not have *any* English accents - instead, we’ve got Herzog’s German accent and a bunch of American accents, even from genuine Brit and original Night King/Joe Chill Richard Brake, who’s using an extremely creepy American South accent that’s so drawl-y it feels like he needs a white suit and a Colonel Sander’s mustache.

    My personal theory for how to explain that?

    Tarkin’s fascist bureaucracy definitely contained a class system bias against non-Core World recruits (or at least those who couldn’t conform), so the “cream of the crop” during the OT was expected to have Core World accents, from them getting better resources and opportunities. When the OT’s over and most of the Empire has fallen, however, a disproportionately large number of survivors lack the Core World accent because all the dudes with tall vowels and clipped consonants were on the front lines during their defeat and most died or retreated into the Unknown Regions.

    Now, why did Tarkin personally employ American-accented officers if he installed the class system into the bureaucracy that put them at a disadvantage? It would make them more reliant on Tarkin himself for power and prestige, giving him extra leverage.
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  10. #25
    Formerly Blackdragon6 Emperor-of-Dragons's Avatar
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    Now that we've seen Andor, we get a kinda decent look into the inner workings of the empire. I hope we see more nuanced stuff within as well.
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  11. #26
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Might be going a bit off-topic here but it just occurred to me-although it seems to be a trope that Imperial officers have British accents, in the original film all of them have American accents (or even were British actors dubbed over!) with the exception of Tarkin and Tagge.

    However the sequels and spin-offs pretty much had the officers be all British (With some exceptions), or didn't dub over the voices.
    That's an old trick from Spartacus, where the Roman oppressors were all British and the Slaves all American (except Jean Simmons, who was a royal from a conquered people). In canon, I suppose we could look at it as The Empire purifying its leadership further and further down the ranks as time passed.

    To the OP: The Imperial Leadership falling in with the Darth Sidious is pretty consistent with our own history of totalitarianism. Fascism almost requires lieutenants that see themselves as members of something superior and the only defense against chaos, and who believe they deserve more for being so. They're generally 100 ready to fall in behind somebody making their vision real, and can find all kinds of excuses for any level of excess (those that don't actually revel in them). Further, believing themselves more deserving, and the alternative calamitous, the ambitious gits usually enter a vicious circle where they compete to be even more part of the elite, ever more tightly binding themselves to the oppressive regime, and deepening its atrocities.

    In the SW-verse, it makes a ton of sense. The Imperial Leadership came from the Supreme Chancellor's favored officers, doubtlessly selected and promoted for their ambition and disgust with the chaos enabled by the Republic's ineffectual prosecution of the Clone Wars. (IMO, this is one place where RotS missed the boat, in not featuring the rise of those like Tarkin, if only as a minor background event).

    Of course, the most cynical of totalitarian lieutenants realize somewhere along the way what the score is, and simply don't care, but usually sew backup plans. We see this too in Ahsoka and The Mandalorian's take on the role of Imperials in The New Republic.
    Last edited by DrNewGod; 10-12-2023 at 04:30 PM.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    There's some deleted scenes from ROTS which has Palpatine setting up the "Regional governors" and telling Padme/Bail/ Mothma's group that there's nothing to worry about. With Anakin by his side, no less.

    It's kind of an interesting scene in that it sort of has a mostly deleted plot thread of Palpatine working to not only undermine Anakin's belief in the Jedi, but in Padme as well.
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