Change My Mind: Alfred should be a domestic, not a Double-0

[Frontier]

And I think Snyder was the one who made his dad the Wayne Butler before him and made it a generational thing.

[bat39]

And I think Snyder was the one who made his dad the Wayne Butler before him and made it a generational thing.

That's actually a nod to the Pre-Crisis continuity, where Alfred's dad Jarvis actually was the Wayne's butler when Bruce was a kid. Alfred then showed up at Bruce's doorstep years later to carry on the family legacy, after Bruce had already become Batman (and Dick was already Robin).

An underrated aspect of Snyder's Batman work was how much Pre-Crisis stuff he managed to sneak back into continuity. The Zero Year suit is an armored version of the original 1939 design. The Zero Year Batmobile is a teched-up version of the original Golden Age Batmobile. Phillip Kane is clearly a rebooted version of Bruce's Uncle Phillip from the old continuity (albeit he's now related to Martha and not Thomas). Dr. Death as an early villain. Julie Madison as Bruce's first major love. And of course, Jarvis.

[Frontier]

That's actually a nod to the Pre-Crisis continuity, where Alfred's dad Jarvis actually was the Wayne's butler when Bruce was a kid. Alfred then showed up at Bruce's doorstep years later to carry on the family legacy, after Bruce had already become Batman (and Dick was already Robin).

An underrated aspect of Snyder's Batman work was how much Pre-Crisis stuff he managed to sneak back into continuity. The Zero Year suit is an armored version of the original 1939 design. The Zero Year Batmobile is a teched-up version of the original Golden Age Batmobile. Phillip Kane is clearly a rebooted version of Bruce's Uncle Phillip from the old continuity (albeit he's now related to Martha and not Thomas). Dr. Death as an early villain. Julie Madison as Bruce's first major love. And of course, Jarvis.

And Julia Pennyworth through the Batman Eternal series.

[Morgoth]

I don’t particularly support the idea of ​​some sort of super agent like Bond, but in the current role, which has already moved beyond comics, he definitely must have some kind of military past, Alfred is not just a butler anymore and never will be.
By the way, I like the interpretation from Earth-One, where he is an ex-military who met Thomas during the war and they became best friends. I think this works very well.

[bat39]

And Julia Pennyworth through the Batman Eternal series.

Ah yes. How could I forget (the other) Julia!

I don’t particularly support the idea of ​​some sort of super agent like Bond, but in the current role, which has already moved beyond comics, he definitely must have some kind of military past, Alfred is not just a butler anymore and never will be.
By the way, I like the interpretation from Earth-One, where he is an ex-military who met Thomas during the war and they became best friends. I think this works very well.

Agreed.

If we're going with the idea that Alfred raised Bruce and is his surrogate father then him having a background in military and intelligence makes perfect sense. Who's more likely to raise a kid who grows up to be a vigilante? An 'ordinary' butler who used to be an actor. Or a butler who used to work for MI6.

[Frontier]

To be honest I'm fine with it as long as it doesn't overwhelm the butler aspect because sometimes it feels like adaptions treat Alfred like he's a butler in name or position only

[bat39]

To be honest I'm fine with it as long as it doesn't overwhelm the butler aspect because sometimes it feels like adaptions treat Alfred like he's a butler in name or position only

I think it works best if you think of Alfred as more of a manager than a domestic servant - someone who runs the Wayne household and attends to Bruce Wayne's personal affairs. Which is often how he is depicted in modern comics and adaptations. Take Reeves' Batman for instance, where we see Bruce coming down for breakfast and Alfred is at the table with him signing papers and setting appointments for Bruce with his accountants. And yes, of course, since Alfred is the one in on the secret he's the one who comes down to the cave with milk and cookies after Bruce is back from a night of Batman-ing.

[Frontier]

I think it works best if you think of Alfred as more of a manager than a domestic servant - someone who runs the Wayne household and attends to Bruce Wayne's personal affairs. Which is often how he is depicted in modern comics and adaptations. Take Reeves' Batman for instance, where we see Bruce coming down for breakfast and Alfred is at the table with him signing papers and setting appointments for Bruce with his accountants. And yes, of course, since Alfred is the one in on the secret he's the one who comes down to the cave with milk and cookies after Bruce is back from a night of Batman-ing.

I think of it more that Alfred dutifully plays the role of a servant and housekeeper alongside managing Bruce's personal and private affairs both out of a sense of professionalism and to feign detachment when he is by all rights Bruce's second father.

(I hate it when he just calls him "Bruce" like it's the most normal thing in the world).

[Jim Kelly]

That's actually a nod to the Pre-Crisis continuity, where Alfred's dad Jarvis actually was the Wayne's butler when Bruce was a kid. Alfred then showed up at Bruce's doorstep years later to carry on the family legacy, after Bruce had already become Batman (and Dick was already Robin).

I much prefer it that way. If people want a Pennyworth taking charge of young Bruce, then let that be Jarvis. This leaves Alfred free to have his life in England, before coming over the pond, after the death of his father, to become Bruce Wayne's gentleman's gentleman.

In my head canon, not only was Alfred following in his father's footsteps, he was probably also concerned for Mawster Grayson and considered it best there be a responsible adult at Wayne Manor to look after the child--since a playboy like Bruce Wayne could not be trusted.

Alfred is a great cook. See BATMAN 191 (May 1967)--2nd story, "Alfred's Mystery Menu" by Fox, Moldoff and Giella. This story pretty much defined Alfred for me, when I first got into the comics as a novice Bat-Maniac.

[phonogram12]

I hate it when he just calls him "Bruce" like it's the most normal thing in the world.

I actually prefer it this way and wish they would've done this more often. I always thought it was rather demeaning to Alfred, especially in the modern world. I mean, I don't call my boss Ms. So-and-So.

[bat39]

I actually prefer it this way and wish they would've done this more often. I always thought it was rather demeaning to Alfred, especially in the modern world. I mean, I don't call my boss Ms. So-and-So.

Its perfectly in character for Alfred, a Brit playing the part of an old-world English gentleman's gentleman to refer to his boss as ''Master Bruce'', even if said boss is his surrogate son. It's the ''proper'' etiquette, and Alfred sets a lot of store by that.

I like the way Zero Year established it in the sense that they're both playing parts - Bruce is acting as the billionaire playboy and industrialist while Alfred is acting as his perfect butler.

[phonogram12]

Its perfectly in character for Alfred, a Brit playing the part of an old-world English gentleman's gentleman to refer to his boss as ''Master Bruce'', even if said boss is his surrogate son. It's the ''proper'' etiquette, and Alfred sets a lot of story by that.

I like the way Zero Year established it in the sense that they're both playing parts - Bruce is acting as the billionaire playboy and industrialist while Alfred is acting as his perfect butler.

IDK, like I said, I just find it demeaning and something that desperately needs to be updated, imho. It would be one thing if it were still the mid-20th century, but it's just not a good look in 2022. Plus, if Alfred's allowed to be that sarcastic with Bruce, calling him by his first name shouldn't be an issue in the least.

[Frontier]

Its perfectly in character for Alfred, a Brit playing the part of an old-world English gentleman's gentleman to refer to his boss as ''Master Bruce'', even if said boss is his surrogate son. It's the ''proper'' etiquette, and Alfred sets a lot of story by that.

I like the way Zero Year established it in the sense that they're both playing parts - Bruce is acting as the billionaire playboy and industrialist while Alfred is acting as his perfect butler.

And it makes it all the more poignant when he drops it and just calls him "Bruce."

IDK, like I said, I just find it demeaning and something that desperately needs to be updated, imho. It would be one thing if it were still the mid-20th century, but it's just not a good look in 2022. Plus, if Alfred's allowed to be that sarcastic with Bruce, calling him by his first name shouldn't be an issue in the least.

He does call him by his first name, he just puts "Master" in front of it .

I mean, Alfred's a pretty old school Brit, usually, so I think that informs how he operates with his stiff upper lip and following proper protocol. I mean, he literally is Bruce's butler most of the time so it's not like it's demeaning Alfred by him literally acting like how he's expected to.

I don't think it's ever gotten in the way of Alfred's snark, in fact I think it enhances it .

[Jim Kelly]

Alfred in the Bruce Timm animated series--voiced by Efrem Zimbalist, Jr.--put me in mind of John Gielgud in the Dudley Moore ARTHUR movies. There's the dry delivery, like his contempt is being held just below the surface. Or, if you like, Stephen Fry in JEEVES AND WOOSTER, opposite Hugh Laurie.

One thing I like about some movie and T.V. adaptations is how they're not quite in any era. They're a bit modern but they're also mixing in a lot from the past. The man servant thing fits with that aesthetic.

[phonogram12]

He does call him by his first name, he just puts "Master" in front of it .

I mean, Alfred's a pretty old school Brit, usually, so I think that informs how he operates with his stiff upper lip and following proper protocol. I mean, he literally is Bruce's butler most of the time so it's not like it's demeaning Alfred by him literally acting like how he's expected to.

I don't think it's ever gotten in the way of Alfred's snark, in fact I think it enhances it .

Despite all the things I couldn't stand about Zack Snyder's DCEU, I did like the way he updated Bruce and Alfred's relationship. They seemed more like coworkers, which I appreciated and I would imagine what it would be like after so many years.