How have things changed since One More Day?

[Mister Mets]

A discussion about a C2E2 panel got to the old arguments about whether Spider-Man and Mary Jane should be married.

But I'm interested in new arguments. Some people may think that One More Day was the right decision at the time, but that the comics industry has changed so that different decisions make sense.

And I'm curious about how you guys think recent-ish (the last 15 years) developments in comics might impact the direction Marvel wants to go into.

Some changes...
- Miles Morales was introduced as a newer younger Spider-Man to replace the ultimate Peter Parker. They then brought him over to the regular Marvel Universe, and made him the lead in an acclaimed animated film, while hinting at a likely appearance in the MCU.
- Interactions with alternate universes has become a big part of the Spider-Man comics with Spider-Men and Spider-Verse. It's extended to the films.
- Spider-Man joined the MCU and it was a massive hit with the most recent film the most successful.
- A series of popular movies featured Spider-Man as Iron Man's protege.
- We're a generation into the period when the expectation is that most new comic book stories will be collected in TPB form. Now anyone with a Marvel Unlimited subscription can read thousands of Spider-Man comics easily.
- Comics published for younger readers in the scholastic market have sales that stomp everything else.
- Pop culture has largely become niche-ified with more material for smaller, diverse audiences.
- The world shut down for a year. That's going to figure into the sliding timescale.

These may have implications on the best approach for Spider-Man. For example, it's possible that a single Peter Parker made sense when there wasn't an alternative like Miles Morales around to tell the stories of a young guy figuring things out. It could also be that things are changing so much in society that a sliding timescale no longer works.

[Ultimate Captain America]

We're in 2022 now, and in all this time we have not seen the word "Covid" on the printed page even once. We may point out all the ways that would be wrong, but work? the sliding timescale still works.

[Matt Rat]

Marvel also finally appear comfortable with allowing the marriage to exist again in 616 through period settings, as was evident with the references in Ben Reilly: Spider-Man, and DeMatteis confirming that it will factor into the upcoming Lost Hunt mini-series in November, with LH set during Peter and MJ's life in Portland around the time of the Clone Saga. It's also worth noting that Quesada's preference that MJ was never pregnant in the post-OMD reality is being ignored, which will introduce new readers to the concept of MJ and Peter as expectant parents

[The BaRoN]

Not one thing in the OP requires a single Spider-Man.

In every other media he ends up with MJ except the comics, MJ even came with Spider-Man in Fortnite for Pete sake.

[Lee]

Not one thing in the OP requires a single Spider-Man.

In every other media he ends up with MJ except the comics, MJ even came with Spider-Man in Fortnite for Pete sake.

In the comics he doesn't end up with anyone, because they don't end. The plan is for the Marvel Comics universe to continue indefinitely. There's no "and they lived happily ever after", there's only "to be continued".

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Things have gotten better since OMD. As much as the current status quo sucks, it was worse from 2008-2017. There's been a genuine pushback against everything that happened in those years (no MJ/marriage, CEO Parker, "loser" Parker, etc.). Wells' run recently regressed some things, but it won't be enough to undo all the progress made.

In terms of contribution to lore, not much has happened since OMD. Mister Negative and Agent Venom were created and were popular, and that's about it. The most iconic Spider-Man comics are still the pre-OMD ones.

Spider-Verse was by far the biggest contribution, and that's cool. But Spider-Verse has little to do with Peter's supporting cast and villains. It arguably would have happened and have been just as good without OMD/BND. Hell, maybe it would have been better.

Adaptations outside the comics have been an improvement. I mean, we arguably got the best 3 depictions of Spider-Man (Spectacular, ITSV, and Insomniac) all after OMD. I would argue we also got the best live-action depiction of Spider-Man (Andrew Garfield). The Disney shows and the MCU films were the only ones to mishandle Spider-Man, but even there, there's been some pushback against that when you look at NWH and the fact that Feige is now in charge of Marvel Animation.

[Matt Rat]

In the comics he doesn't end up with anyone, because they don't end.

The following are comics that have ended:

MC2
RYV
Newspaper Strip
Spectacular Spider-Man Adventures (UK)

Who did he end up with in all four? MJ

Happily ever after. Babies ever after.

Peter's best stories are finite ones.

And Marvel certainly isn't going to run indefinitely. I see it outlasting DC, but nothing is forever.

[federicodettofred]

A discussion about a C2E2 panel got to the old arguments about whether Spider-Man and Mary Jane should be married.

But I'm interested in new arguments. Some people may think that One More Day was the right decision at the time, but that the comics industry has changed so that different decisions make sense.

And I'm curious about how you guys think recent-ish (the last 15 years) developments in comics might impact the direction Marvel wants to go into.

Some changes...
- Miles Morales was introduced as a newer younger Spider-Man to replace the ultimate Peter Parker. They then brought him over to the regular Marvel Universe, and made him the lead in an acclaimed animated film, while hinting at a likely appearance in the MCU.
- Interactions with alternate universes has become a big part of the Spider-Man comics with Spider-Men and Spider-Verse. It's extended to the films.
- Spider-Man joined the MCU and it was a massive hit with the most recent film the most successful.
- A series of popular movies featured Spider-Man as Iron Man's protege.
- We're a generation into the period when the expectation is that most new comic book stories will be collected in TPB form. Now anyone with a Marvel Unlimited subscription can read thousands of Spider-Man comics easily.
- Comics published for younger readers in the scholastic market have sales that stomp everything else.
- Pop culture has largely become niche-ified with more material for smaller, diverse audiences.
- The world shut down for a year. That's going to figure into the sliding timescale.

These may have implications on the best approach for Spider-Man. For example, it's possible that a single Peter Parker made sense when there wasn't an alternative like Miles Morales around to tell the stories of a young guy figuring things out. It could also be that things are changing so much in society that a sliding timescale no longer works.

Half of these things are not positive ones. Especially point 2, with the "Spider-Verse" garbage can.

[TinkerSpider]

A discussion about a C2E2 panel got to the old arguments about whether Spider-Man and Mary Jane should be married.

But I'm interested in new arguments. Some people may think that One More Day was the right decision at the time, but that the comics industry has changed so that different decisions make sense.

And I'm curious about how you guys think recent-ish (the last 15 years) developments in comics might impact the direction Marvel wants to go into.

Some changes...
- Miles Morales was introduced as a newer younger Spider-Man to replace the ultimate Peter Parker. They then brought him over to the regular Marvel Universe, and made him the lead in an acclaimed animated film, while hinting at a likely appearance in the MCU.
- Interactions with alternate universes has become a big part of the Spider-Man comics with Spider-Men and Spider-Verse. It's extended to the films.
- Spider-Man joined the MCU and it was a massive hit with the most recent film the most successful.
- A series of popular movies featured Spider-Man as Iron Man's protege.
- We're a generation into the period when the expectation is that most new comic book stories will be collected in TPB form. Now anyone with a Marvel Unlimited subscription can read thousands of Spider-Man comics easily.
- Comics published for younger readers in the scholastic market have sales that stomp everything else.
- Pop culture has largely become niche-ified with more material for smaller, diverse audiences.
- The world shut down for a year. That's going to figure into the sliding timescale.

These may have implications on the best approach for Spider-Man. For example, it's possible that a single Peter Parker made sense when there wasn't an alternative like Miles Morales around to tell the stories of a young guy figuring things out. It could also be that things are changing so much in society that a sliding timescale no longer works.

Other things that have changed:

- Disney bought Marvel.
- Disney bought Twentieth Century Fox. This brings the number of major Hollywood studios down to five (MGM isn't a major, neither is Lionsgate), reducing competition in the marketplace but also leaving holes in film release calendar; Disney has ramping up more productions to feed the beast. Disney released 19 flms in cinemas in 2019; they are releasing 31 films, between streaming and cinemas, in 2022.
- Disney created a streaming service that requires lots of original content to feed it.
- Broadcast and cable television appear to be fading; Disney makes a lot of money off ads for its broadcast networks. The business that makes the most revenue for Disney are its carriage fees (the fees paid by cable systems to carry Disney-owned networks; losing carriage fees could put a big dent in Disney's coffers.
- Gen Z is the generation least interested in comic books and invested fan activity like cosplay. This may be a danger sign for the "new reader" comics want to chase.
- The entertainment/media industry is still figuring out the "new normal" due to the pandemic. Cinemas have been hit, comics book stores have been hit, printing housing have been hit and there's a paper shortage.
- Distribution methods have shifted with Marvel moving from Diamond, whose primary relationship was with the direct marketing & local comics books store, to Penguin Random House, whose primary relationship is with bookstores. DC has shifted to Lunar for the direct market.
- DC's parent Warner Bros. was bought by AT&T, which almost immediately, as soon as the DOJ case was settled, sold it to Discovery. This has had mixed results for DC film properties and there are rumors Discovery may not wish to keep the book publishing arm, just the rights to the IP.
- Viz is the largest publisher of graphic novels in the US, not Marvel or DC. Manga outsells traditional comic book heroes by a large margin. Manga is what kept local comic book stores afloat during the pandemic.

Overall, I'd say the themes are:
1) Disney needs LOTS of content. To feed the content beast, Disney does not stick to one definitive version of Peter Parker/Miles Morales or Spider-Man; Disney has authorized various versions in various animated series, Marvel What If, Into the Spider-Verse, the Insomniac games, the MCU and no doubt will authorize more. Marvel brought the two Sony Spider-Men to the MCU, showing that Peter Parker can be older, younger, happy in a relationship that works out, still mourning the death of his loved one, etc. and all simultaneously.

What drives Disney is telling a good story. They appear very amenable to various versions of Spider-Man - rookie in high school, eight years after being bitten, divorced thirties dad bod - as long the story is entertaining and connects with audiences.

2) The direct market is still alive for now (and not in small part due to manga), but the fabled "new reader" may not materialize for American superheroes in sustainable numbers as Gen Z is not as interested as Millennials and Gen X. This may drive Marvel and DC to either treat older readers as their primary audience, with stories that appeal to nostalgia, or may drive Marvel and DC to take a manga-inspired approach to storytelling in which a single story is told over many issues with a single creative vision and characters materially evolve instead of "the illusion of change."