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  1. #1
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Default How have things changed since One More Day?

    A discussion about a C2E2 panel got to the old arguments about whether Spider-Man and Mary Jane should be married.

    But I'm interested in new arguments. Some people may think that One More Day was the right decision at the time, but that the comics industry has changed so that different decisions make sense.

    And I'm curious about how you guys think recent-ish (the last 15 years) developments in comics might impact the direction Marvel wants to go into.

    Some changes...
    - Miles Morales was introduced as a newer younger Spider-Man to replace the ultimate Peter Parker. They then brought him over to the regular Marvel Universe, and made him the lead in an acclaimed animated film, while hinting at a likely appearance in the MCU.
    - Interactions with alternate universes has become a big part of the Spider-Man comics with Spider-Men and Spider-Verse. It's extended to the films.
    - Spider-Man joined the MCU and it was a massive hit with the most recent film the most successful.
    - A series of popular movies featured Spider-Man as Iron Man's protege.
    - We're a generation into the period when the expectation is that most new comic book stories will be collected in TPB form. Now anyone with a Marvel Unlimited subscription can read thousands of Spider-Man comics easily.
    - Comics published for younger readers in the scholastic market have sales that stomp everything else.
    - Pop culture has largely become niche-ified with more material for smaller, diverse audiences.
    - The world shut down for a year. That's going to figure into the sliding timescale.

    These may have implications on the best approach for Spider-Man. For example, it's possible that a single Peter Parker made sense when there wasn't an alternative like Miles Morales around to tell the stories of a young guy figuring things out. It could also be that things are changing so much in society that a sliding timescale no longer works.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  2. #2

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    We're in 2022 now, and in all this time we have not seen the word "Covid" on the printed page even once. We may point out all the ways that would be wrong, but work? the sliding timescale still works.

  3. #3
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    Marvel also finally appear comfortable with allowing the marriage to exist again in 616 through period settings, as was evident with the references in Ben Reilly: Spider-Man, and DeMatteis confirming that it will factor into the upcoming Lost Hunt mini-series in November, with LH set during Peter and MJ's life in Portland around the time of the Clone Saga. It's also worth noting that Quesada's preference that MJ was never pregnant in the post-OMD reality is being ignored, which will introduce new readers to the concept of MJ and Peter as expectant parents

  4. #4
    Mighty Member The BaRoN's Avatar
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    Not one thing in the OP requires a single Spider-Man.

    In every other media he ends up with MJ except the comics, MJ even came with Spider-Man in Fortnite for Pete sake.
    Last edited by The BaRoN; 08-11-2022 at 03:09 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    A discussion about a C2E2 panel got to the old arguments about whether Spider-Man and Mary Jane should be married.

    But I'm interested in new arguments. Some people may think that One More Day was the right decision at the time, but that the comics industry has changed so that different decisions make sense.

    And I'm curious about how you guys think recent-ish (the last 15 years) developments in comics might impact the direction Marvel wants to go into.

    Some changes...
    - Miles Morales was introduced as a newer younger Spider-Man to replace the ultimate Peter Parker. They then brought him over to the regular Marvel Universe, and made him the lead in an acclaimed animated film, while hinting at a likely appearance in the MCU.
    - Interactions with alternate universes has become a big part of the Spider-Man comics with Spider-Men and Spider-Verse. It's extended to the films.
    - Spider-Man joined the MCU and it was a massive hit with the most recent film the most successful.
    - A series of popular movies featured Spider-Man as Iron Man's protege.
    - We're a generation into the period when the expectation is that most new comic book stories will be collected in TPB form. Now anyone with a Marvel Unlimited subscription can read thousands of Spider-Man comics easily.
    - Comics published for younger readers in the scholastic market have sales that stomp everything else.
    - Pop culture has largely become niche-ified with more material for smaller, diverse audiences.
    - The world shut down for a year. That's going to figure into the sliding timescale.

    These may have implications on the best approach for Spider-Man. For example, it's possible that a single Peter Parker made sense when there wasn't an alternative like Miles Morales around to tell the stories of a young guy figuring things out. It could also be that things are changing so much in society that a sliding timescale no longer works.
    Half of these things are not positive ones. Especially point 2, with the "Spider-Verse" garbage can.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by The BaRoN View Post
    Not one thing in the OP requires a single Spider-Man.

    In every other media he ends up with MJ except the comics, MJ even came with Spider-Man in Fortnite for Pete sake.
    In the comics he doesn't end up with anyone, because they don't end. The plan is for the Marvel Comics universe to continue indefinitely. There's no "and they lived happily ever after", there's only "to be continued".

  7. #7
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    Things have gotten better since OMD. As much as the current status quo sucks, it was worse from 2008-2017. There's been a genuine pushback against everything that happened in those years (no MJ/marriage, CEO Parker, "loser" Parker, etc.). Wells' run recently regressed some things, but it won't be enough to undo all the progress made.

    In terms of contribution to lore, not much has happened since OMD. Mister Negative and Agent Venom were created and were popular, and that's about it. The most iconic Spider-Man comics are still the pre-OMD ones.

    Spider-Verse was by far the biggest contribution, and that's cool. But Spider-Verse has little to do with Peter's supporting cast and villains. It arguably would have happened and have been just as good without OMD/BND. Hell, maybe it would have been better.

    Adaptations outside the comics have been an improvement. I mean, we arguably got the best 3 depictions of Spider-Man (Spectacular, ITSV, and Insomniac) all after OMD. I would argue we also got the best live-action depiction of Spider-Man (Andrew Garfield). The Disney shows and the MCU films were the only ones to mishandle Spider-Man, but even there, there's been some pushback against that when you look at NWH and the fact that Feige is now in charge of Marvel Animation.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    In the comics he doesn't end up with anyone, because they don't end.
    The following are comics that have ended:

    MC2
    RYV
    Newspaper Strip
    Spectacular Spider-Man Adventures (UK)

    Who did he end up with in all four? MJ

    Happily ever after. Babies ever after.

    Peter's best stories are finite ones.

    And Marvel certainly isn't going to run indefinitely. I see it outlasting DC, but nothing is forever.
    Last edited by Matt Rat; 08-11-2022 at 08:27 AM.

  9. #9
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    As an MJ fan I have to ask (and I know I will get flack for this) but why doesn't Marvel just kill MJ off? Hear me out. They wont give the "vocal minority" what they want - the marriage, so why keep her around? We went several years without her in the books. All the fans did was vent how they wanted her back. She came back and things were teased only for us to end up where we are now in the current volume. So why not just kill her off? What do they really lose? Anyhow who was reading and hated the marriage have most likely dropped the book after OMD. There are fans here who don't seem to care for her at the moment. Will they really lose readership in droves?

  10. #10
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xpyred View Post
    As an MJ fan I have to ask (and I know I will get flack for this) but why doesn't Marvel just kill MJ off? Hear me out. They wont give the "vocal minority" what they want - the marriage, so why keep her around? We went several years without her in the books. All the fans did was vent how they wanted her back. She came back and things were teased only for us to end up where we are now in the current volume. So why not just kill her off? What do they really lose? Anyhow who was reading and hated the marriage have most likely dropped the book after OMD. There are fans here who don't seem to care for her at the moment. Will they really lose readership in droves?
    They don't kill her off because there's more vale to the character in keeping her alive. Just because she can't get married doesn't mean that's all they can do with a character.

    As for people complaining on the internet, Spider-man books could be packed with a free hundred dollar bill and people would say they didn't want it. They'd rather have twenties.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by xpyred View Post
    As an MJ fan I have to ask (and I know I will get flack for this) but why doesn't Marvel just kill MJ off?
    1999 called. They say it didn't work that time either.

  12. #12
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Takes one look at this thread, nope, walks out.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by xpyred View Post
    As an MJ fan I have to ask (and I know I will get flack for this) but why doesn't Marvel just kill MJ off? Hear me out. They wont give the "vocal minority" what they want - the marriage, so why keep her around? We went several years without her in the books. All the fans did was vent how they wanted her back. She came back and things were teased only for us to end up where we are now in the current volume. So why not just kill her off? What do they really lose? Anyhow who was reading and hated the marriage have most likely dropped the book after OMD. There are fans here who don't seem to care for her at the moment. Will they really lose readership in droves?
    “What’s the point of an unmarried woman? They should just kill her off.”

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    The following are comics that have ended:

    MC2
    RYV
    Newspaper Strip
    Spectacular Spider-Man Adventures (UK)

    Who did he end up with in all four? MJ

    Happily ever after. Babies ever after.

    Peter's best stories are finite ones.

    And Marvel certainly isn't going to run indefinitely. I see it outlasting DC, but nothing is forever.
    I was talking about the main comics, not the alternate universe spin-offs. The goal is for the original Marvel Universe to continue as long as possible, with no end in sight. If Marvel reaches a point where they no longer publish comics, and no other publisher licenses the characters and continues the stories, then they can concern themselves with who Peter ends up with. Until that point, there is no "ends up with" because there is no ending.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    “What’s the point of an unmarried woman? They should just kill her off.”
    That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there's too much controversy surrounding her and clearly the higher ups don't want her around. So write her off for good or kill her off. And again, I am an MJ fan and started reading around the time Harry died. But the fan base is toxic as hell and every thread is derailed into some OMD marriage nonsense.

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