How have things changed since One More Day?

[PCN24454]

I didn't think their interactions were boring, but then I'm OK with Peter and MJ being full of love for one another and never arguing. I'm not a big believer in 'boredom' in romance, it's just nice to see the two happy and functioning. It's a lesson we can all learn from.

For me, it’s mostly that Peter’s personal life is mostly a B-plot. While I want Peter to be happy with MJ, it’s not the reason why I read Spider-Man. My complaint is that the Spider-Man stories have been less interesting.

[Lee]

Well, in the 90's comic books were dying, and clone saga kept people buying, so likely that's where it started, since they needed short term gains to keep going, nowadays they do it just because they think it's the only way that works I guess.

The premise that Tom Brevoort actively tries to piss off fans with comics and that everyone else at Marvel follows is lead is what I'm calling into question. What is your source for this? This sounds like a distortion of the fact that Marvel's best selling stories often end up angering a vocal segment of the fandom, whilst a greater number of fans find them exciting and intriguing and buy the book.

[evolutionaryFan]

That was never implied, OMD didn't hint at it, Spider-Man/Deadpool only focused on the corruption of Spidey's soul and doesn't say anything about aunt May, Spencer's run also says nothing about it.

Thanks. Surprised writers haven't pursued this angle. I mean this is Mephisto's MO isn't it? Johnny Blaze makes a deal with Mephisto to save Crash Simpson. Crash Simpson still dies and Mephisto still gets Crash's soul. I'd expect something similar here.

[charliehustle415]

Sadly nothing and I think that is the point.

The perpetual rat wheel for poor ol' Pete.

The only thing I can think of (if I am being charitable) is Pete's supporting cast has grown (is that a good thing, I'll leave that to personal taste).

Miles grew from a need of seeing a Spider-Man grow and evolve, if you compare Miles and Pete the former has actually grown far more than the latter in regards to actual change.

Miles grew from his days in the Ultimate Universe all the way to the 616 where he gave a crotch burger to Molecule Man.

[Lukmendes]

Which was then retconned during Spencer's run. It turns out Annie (?) would have killed Mephisto so he retroactively aborted her via his wacky magic or something (a la the plot from Terminator minus time travel), so, um yeah, ME cannot make up their collective mind what Big Red's true motivation is. Bad convoluted messy writing begets bad convoluted messy writing, who would have guessed?.....

I mean, considering that not even Mephisto really knows what will beat his ass between Spidey and Mayday, and that even with Spencer's run in mind he still has an interesting in fucking up Spidey, as far as "plot holes" go, this is as tame as it can be, specially by super-hero standards.

Hell, by comparison, this has way less holes than MJ knowing Peter and Spidey are the same person since the beginning.

I didn't think their interactions were boring, but then I'm OK with Peter and MJ being full of love for one another and never arguing. I'm not a big believer in 'boredom' in romance, it's just nice to see the two happy and functioning. It's a lesson we can all learn from.

I'm not saying they need to argue to be interesting, just interact with each other in ways that show their personalities, something they just, stopped doing at some point in RYV, which made 'em boring for me.

The premise that Tom Brevoort actively tries to piss off fans with comics and that everyone else at Marvel follows is lead is what I'm calling into question. What is your source for this? This sounds like a distortion of the fact that Marvel's best selling stories often end up angering a vocal segment of the fandom, whilst a greater number of fans find them exciting and intriguing and buy the book.

I mean, Brevoort himself has admitted that controversial stories sell more than usual, and Spidey usually has stories that look made to annoy fans more than about anyone else, then keep in mind stories that are blatantly made to divide and piss off fans like Civil War and AvX... Intentions are obvious.

And I'm not saying any story that annoys fans is made to do so, Jason Aaron and Bendis piss off fans by doing whatever but that seems more like they're just writers with ideas that naturally piss off fans, but Spidey editorial do stuff that seem to be made to annoy fans every few years, and it disgusts me.

Though there is a chance that currently the intention isn't piss off fans for the sake of short term sales increase, maybe Wells is just an incompetent writer for Spidey, or maybe editorial are the incompetent ones for thinking ASM has to be bad misery porn to work, but uh, that's not much better, either's they're telling mediocre stories intentionally, or they're incompetent because some idiots have position of power.

Thanks. Surprised writers haven't pursued this angle. I mean this is Mephisto's MO isn't it? Johnny Blaze makes a deal with Mephisto to save Crash Simpson. Crash Simpson still dies and Mephisto still gets Crash's soul. I'd expect something similar here.

Stuff like that is why it's pointed out that everyone is a moron in OMD, Spidey and MJ are the dumbest fuckers ever to make the deal to begin with, and so is Mephisto for making a mostly harmless deal that can be undone very casually with no real consequences.

Spider-Man/Deadpool and Spencer's run give him more reasons to torment Spidey (And the Spider-Man/Deadpool one was mentioned in OMD itself too), but Spencer's run in particular makes him look like the dumbest motherfucker imaginable for doing so little to stop the guy who's eventually gonna beat his ass, well, him or one of his infinite daughters lol.

Sadly nothing and I think that is the point.

The perpetual rat wheel for poor ol' Pete.

The only thing I can think of (if I am being charitable) is Pete's supporting cast has grown (is that a good thing, I'll leave that to personal taste).

Having more is hardly a bad thing since it increases story telling flexibility if they aren't interchangeable with someone else, but does it really matter when most of these new characters barely get used? Slott used a few of 'em but it was mostly Max and Anna Maria, with Max taking random trips to limbo, and now it's just some of the classic characters again.

[Frontier]

Sadly nothing and I think that is the point.

The perpetual rat wheel for poor ol' Pete.

The only thing I can think of (if I am being charitable) is Pete's supporting cast has grown (is that a good thing, I'll leave that to personal taste).

Miles grew from a need of seeing a Spider-Man grow and evolve, if you compare Miles and Pete the former has actually grown far more than the latter in regards to actual change.

Miles grew from his days in the Ultimate Universe all the way to the 616 where he gave a crotch burger to Molecule Man.

I don't know if that's quite true because Peter stagnating feels more relatively recent when you compare how he was from Lee/Ditko on to JMS.

[charliehustle415]

I don't know if that's quite true because Peter stagnating feels more relatively recent when you compare how he was from Lee/Ditko on to JMS.

I agree, he grew during Slott's run to heights I doubt we will never see and then got knocked down again during Spencer's run and yet again during Well's.

This is why I love Slott's run it felt like real change I mean Pete was no longer POOR! Pete was recognized as a scientific genius! Pete had working relationships!

[Alan2099]

I see it less as writers are looking for ways to piss off fans and more as fans are looking for excuse to be pissed off about something. People throw the biggest fits over even the smallest consequential things.

[Matt Rat]

I see it less as writers are looking for ways to piss off fans and more as fans are looking for excuse to be pissed off about something. People throw the biggest fits over even the smallest consequential things.

Brevoort has always publicly said outraged fans spend more than satisfied ones.

I agree, he grew during Slott's run to heights I doubt we will never see and then got knocked down again during Spencer's run and yet again during Well's.

This is why I love Slott's run it felt like real change I mean Pete was no longer POOR! Pete was recognized as a scientific genius! Pete had working relationships!

1. Slott made Peter poor and disgraced again before his run was even over. Spencer had nothing to do with that other than acknowledge his doctorate was fake.
2. Peter being recognised as a genius led to fairly bog standard boring stories. Being a genius doesn't suit him nor did it make him suddenly better.
3. Peter was barely in any working relationship, and whenever he was, it was over in a matter of issues. Peter was more stable with Mary Jane throughout Spencer's run than he ever was with the women in Slotts'

[charliehustle415]

1. Slott made Peter poor and disgraced again before his run was even over. Spencer had nothing to do with that other than acknowledge his doctorate was fake.
2. Peter being recognised as a genius led to fairly bog standard boring stories. Being a genius doesn't suit him nor did it make him suddenly better.
3. Peter was barely in any working relationship, and whenever he was, it was over in a matter of issues. Peter was more stable with Mary Jane throughout Spencer's run than he ever was with the women in Slotts'

1. I mean yeah, there is no way editorial would allow that to last. I mean that's my whole point, Spencer had to work with Peter back at ground zero again.
2. In your opinion, I loved it and I like him being a recognized genius.
3. I didn't just mean romantic relationships. He had loving relationships with his friends as well as good romantic ones. I mean his relationship with JJS was one of the sweetest things in the whole run. Peter actually had a chance to have a father figure in his life and it was JJJ's father - genius. I mean even his relationship with Otto grew and was no longer a mustache twirling villain.

[Frontier]

I agree, he grew during Slott's run to heights I doubt we will never see and then got knocked down again during Spencer's run and yet again during Well's.

This is why I love Slott's run it felt like real change I mean Pete was no longer POOR! Pete was recognized as a scientific genius! Pete had working relationships!

Professionally if not emotionally and capably. Because Slotts' Peter tends to come off as one of the more emotionally stunted Spidey's to me and the one that can't seem to get by without a lot of help.

I mean, Peter's had working relationships before? At the Bugle?

[Huntsman Spider]

Brevoort has always publicly said outraged fans spend more than satisfied ones.



1. Slott made Peter poor and disgraced again before his run was even over. Spencer had nothing to do with that other than acknowledge his doctorate was fake.
2. Peter being recognised as a genius led to fairly bog standard boring stories. Being a genius doesn't suit him nor did it make him suddenly better.
3. Peter was barely in any working relationship, and whenever he was, it was over in a matter of issues. Peter was more stable with Mary Jane throughout Spencer's run than he ever was with the women in Slotts'

Generally cosigned, except on 2; the genie was out of the bottle since pretty much the beginning of his published existence, in terms of him being a genius (potentially) on par with Reed Richards. I mean, he was inventing stuff like tracers with radio signals that could be picked up by his spider-sense, anti-magnetic inverters to deal with the Vulture, and an adhesive that could put big-time adhesive companies out of business, all the way back in his first comics.

[Frontier]

Generally cosigned, except on 2; the genie was out of the bottle since pretty much the beginning of his published existence, in terms of him being a genius (potentially) on par with Reed Richards. I mean, he was inventing stuff like tracers with radio signals that could be picked up by his spider-sense, anti-magnetic inverters to deal with the Vulture, and an adhesive that could put big-time adhesive companies out of business, all the way back in his first comics.

True, but "wealth and fame, he's ignored, action is his reward."

[Huntsman Spider]

True, but "wealth and fame, he's ignored, action is his reward."

A perfectly valid point.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Generally cosigned, except on 2; the genie was out of the bottle since pretty much the beginning of his published existence, in terms of him being a genius (potentially) on par with Reed Richards. I mean, he was inventing stuff like tracers with radio signals that could be picked up by his spider-sense, anti-magnetic inverters to deal with the Vulture, and an adhesive that could put big-time adhesive companies out of business, all the way back in his first comics.

IMO, it makes perfect sense why Peter doesn't make money off his inventions. There's really only two ways Peter can do that, and neither are ideal or in-line with Peter's values.

The first way would be to sell them, and it's doubtful that a corporation or government would use them for anything humanitarian. Something like the webbing will very likely be used on brown people in the Middle East, or for increased policing at home if we are talking domestic policy. It wouldn't go to any "good things" (not under our current capitalist system, anyway). There's also the question if Peter would even be allowed to use the webbing as Spider-Man once he sells the rights to it. Whoever he sells it to would want a monopoly & exclusive rights to it for obvious reasons.

Peter's second option is to patent everything himself and start a company... and that's honestly not much better. As CEO, his responsibility would be to maximize profits for his shareholders. His company would be the equivalent of the companies pre-COVID who refused to produce enough masks and enough ICU beds because there wasn't enough profit in making them. So Option 2 is essentially the same as Option 1, except Peter gets to be the CEO who has to use his webbing on brown people this time. The only upside is that he would still get to use his webbing as Spider-Man. Still, it would mean he is actively making the world a worse place as Peter Parker. The idea that this is something Peter would be okay with just because he gets to make bank and still be Spider-Man is, honestly, a sick joke.

I mean, even if Peter can somehow get past his responsibilities as CEO and use his inventions only in ways that help people, he would still have to set up factories of workers to mass-produce his inventions. And he would have to pay them less than the value they produce, since that's how it works. And if Peter's inventions are like any invention in the real world, the inspiration and bulk of research for something like the webbing was first done in the public sector through tax money. Getting rich off of it and not spreading that wealth would make him look like a massive hypocrite, and would spit in the face of Uncle Ben and the message of AF #15.

As for the Reed Richards comparison, I think people forget that Reed doesn't make money off his inventions either. He doesn't do it for the same reasons I outlined. The reasons Reed is richer than Peter is because he was born upper-middle class. In both cases, Peter and Reed's social statuses have nothing to do with their intelligence or their inventions.