How have things changed since One More Day?

[Huntsman Spider]

Things have gotten better since OMD. As much as the current status quo sucks, it was worse from 2008-2017. There's been a genuine pushback against everything that happened in those years (no MJ/marriage, CEO Parker, "loser" Parker, etc.). Wells' run recently regressed some things, but it won't be enough to undo all the progress made.

In terms of contribution to lore, not much has happened since OMD. Mister Negative and Agent Venom were created and were popular, and that's about it. The most iconic Spider-Man comics are still the pre-OMD ones.

Spider-Verse was by far the biggest contribution, and that's cool. But Spider-Verse has little to do with Peter's supporting cast and villains. It arguably would have happened and have been just as good without OMD/BND. Hell, maybe it would have been better.

Adaptations outside the comics have been an improvement. I mean, we arguably got the best 3 depictions of Spider-Man (Spectacular, ITSV, and Insomniac) all after OMD. I would argue we also got the best live-action depiction of Spider-Man (Andrew Garfield). The Disney shows and the MCU films were the only ones to mishandle Spider-Man, but even there, there's been some pushback against that when you look at NWH and the fact that Feige is now in charge of Marvel Animation.

I would also add that all the best adaptations of Spider-Man post-OMD that you listed came from Sony, which really would say something about how badly the more Disney-connected or -produced animated series and live-action movies handled him.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I would also add that all the best adaptations of Spider-Man post-OMD that you listed came from Sony, which really would say something about how badly the more Disney-connected or -produced animated series and live-action movies handled him.

Know what else the first two Raimi films, ITSV, the Insomniac games, and Spectacular all have in common besides being the most acclaimed and beloved adaptations of the past 20 years? They're also the only ones where the Sony execs didn't poke their nose into.

Sad, isn't it? All Sony had to do was not micromanage and they would have kicked Disney/Marvel's ass at making Spider-Man.

And the whole world would have been on their side. But instead, they self-sabotaged themselves and gave Disney/Marvel PR a huge gift in the process.

That's just sad.

[PCN24454]

The comic as s whole has been pretty gag focused and it’s annoying.

[Celgress]

My Two Cents -

I posted this in another thread. I'm going to share it here too.

I could live with the marriage gone but I can't live with the mechanism used to achieve its end. Mephisto's triumph over a top-tier hero who is a paragon of virtue sits wrong with me. I know they later added the Dr. Strange stuff to lessen that blow but it was like putting a new coat of paint on a rotting building. This is why I can never support OMD because Spidey was morally compromised by the story, and Mephisto gained a massive W that will all but certainly never be reversed. Superhero comic books at their core are a morality play OMD runs counter to the purpose of the genre as a whole. It is a far more damaging and damning story than was "Sins Past" or anything that happened in the 1990s "Clone Saga" because those stores distasteful as they were did no lasting damage to the core values of Spider-Man. I can disregard those crapfests without incident but I can't do so for OMB not only because of its lasting impact on the narrative but worst because of what it did to Spidey himself.

[Huntsman Spider]

Know what else the first two Raimi films, ITSV, the Insomniac games, and Spectacular all have in common besides being the most acclaimed and beloved adaptations of the past 20 years? They're also the only ones where the Sony execs didn't poke their nose into.

Sad, isn't it? All Sony had to do was not micromanage and they would have kicked Disney/Marvel's ass at making Spider-Man.

And the whole world would have been on their side. But instead, they self-sabotaged themselves and gave Disney/Marvel PR a huge gift in the process.

That's just sad.

Pretty much.

My Two Cents -

I posted this in another thread. I'm going to share it here too.

I could live with the marriage gone but I can't live with the mechanism used to achieve its end. Mephisto's triumph over a top-tier hero who is a paragon of virtue sits wrong with me. I know they later added the Dr. Strange stuff to lessen that blow but it was like putting a new coat of paint on a rotting building. This is why I can never support OMD because Spidey was morally compromised by the story, and Mephisto gained a massive W that will all but certainly never be reversed. Superhero comic books at their core are a morality play OMD runs counter to the purpose of the genre as a whole. It is a far more damaging and damning story than was "Sins Past" or anything that happened in the 1990s "Clone Saga" because those stores distasteful as they were did no lasting damage to the core values of Spider-Man. I can disregard those crapfests without incident but I can't do so for OMB not only because of its lasting impact on the narrative but worst because of what it did to Spidey himself.

Exactly. It greatly, if not completely, diminishes Spider-Man's ability to act as a moral exemplar, because in the back of the minds of those who know, there's always going to be a nagging little, "This is the same guy that made a literal deal with a literal Devil to avoid taking responsibility for and facing the consequences of his actions --- publicly unmasking and thus putting a target on all his loved ones' and associates' backs for his many enemies, leading directly to Aunt May getting shot by the Kingpin's sniper --- in Civil War."

[Mister Mets]

Not one thing in the OP requires a single Spider-Man.

In every other media he ends up with MJ except the comics, MJ even came with Spider-Man in Fortnite for Pete sake.

This isn't about what stories require Spider-Man to be single.

It's more about post-OMD developments and how that changes the context for Marvel's decisions going forward. Is there new evidence in favor of sticking to the status quo, or for reversing One More Day?

A lot of the arguments are about whether Quesada was right fifteen years ago, but that doesn't address what Marvel should do now.

Half of these things are not positive ones. Especially point 2, with the "Spider-Verse" garbage can.

This isn't about whether you like or dislike the stuff. That said, if you think something is harmful to Spider-Man as a brand/ intellectual property, that could be an argument for a new direction.

[Mister Mets]

Marvel also finally appear comfortable with allowing the marriage to exist again in 616 through period settings, as was evident with the references in Ben Reilly: Spider-Man, and DeMatteis confirming that it will factor into the upcoming Lost Hunt mini-series in November, with LH set during Peter and MJ's life in Portland around the time of the Clone Saga. It's also worth noting that Quesada's preference that MJ was never pregnant in the post-OMD reality is being ignored, which will introduce new readers to the concept of MJ and Peter as expectant parents

A preference that was never canon isn't that meaningful, although it is a bit of a shift to have flashbacks to the marriage.

Fans of the marriage are still likely reading too much into peripheral projects.

In the comics he doesn't end up with anyone, because they don't end. The plan is for the Marvel Comics universe to continue indefinitely. There's no "and they lived happily ever after", there's only "to be continued".

This is an important consideration.

What works best if the stories are meant to continue for the foreseeable future?

I was talking about the main comics, not the alternate universe spin-offs. The goal is for the original Marvel Universe to continue as long as possible, with no end in sight. If Marvel reaches a point where they no longer publish comics, and no other publisher licenses the characters and continues the stories, then they can concern themselves with who Peter ends up with. Until that point, there is no "ends up with" because there is no ending.

It could be possible for Marvel to reach a point where it just doesn't make sense to pretend that there's one main universe since Fantastic Four #1.

They could be able to publishing comics even if there was a different approach. That said, they would lose a lot in the process.

[WebLurker]

This isn't about what stories require Spider-Man to be single.

It's more about post-OMD developments and how that changes the context for Marvel's decisions going forward. Is there new evidence in favor of sticking to the status quo, or for reversing One More Day?

A lot of the arguments about whether Quesada was right fifteen years ago, but that doesn't address what Marvel should do now.

Maintaining OMD arguably leads to the core comics being out of sync with the franchise at large; the major tie-ins that reach more audiences (including most of the future comic book customers) paint a different picture of what's "normal" and all that. A key reason I reject the OMD version of the comics is due to the original movie being my franchise gateway and setting a very different baseline of what the franchise's "normal" status quo is (anecdotal, to be sure, but it illustrates the theory).

I will concede that brand synergy isn't always a "must" and it's not the be all end all of building a franchise, but it's still an oddity that the main comics -- the source material of it all -- contradict everything else on this point. Make of all that what you will.

[Refrax5]

My Two Cents -

I posted this in another thread. I'm going to share it here too.

I could live with the marriage gone but I can't live with the mechanism used to achieve its end. Mephisto's triumph over a top-tier hero who is a paragon of virtue sits wrong with me. I know they later added the Dr. Strange stuff to lessen that blow but it was like putting a new coat of paint on a rotting building. This is why I can never support OMD because Spidey was morally compromised by the story, and Mephisto gained a massive W that will all but certainly never be reversed. Superhero comic books at their core are a morality play OMD runs counter to the purpose of the genre as a whole. It is a far more damaging and damning story than was "Sins Past" or anything that happened in the 1990s "Clone Saga" because those stores distasteful as they were did no lasting damage to the core values of Spider-Man. I can disregard those crapfests without incident but I can't do so for OMB not only because of its lasting impact on the narrative but worst because of what it did to Spidey himself.

I agree. I'm not even a religious person, but the idea of Spider-Man making a deal with Satan to undo his marriage isn't just profoundly stupid, it taints the character. There's just an ickiness to it all.

[Matt Rat]

A preference that was never canon isn't that meaningful, although it is a bit of a shift to have flashbacks to the marriage.

That 'preference' prevented many more books like this being made in the past.

[Fans of the marriage are still likely reading too much into peripheral projects

We're not. We're reading the room. Setting the marriage in 616 again is a significant step.

[Celgress]

I agree. I'm not even a religious person, but the idea of Spider-Man making a deal with Satan to undo his marriage isn't just profoundly stupid, it taints the character. There's just an ickiness to it all.

It reminds me of finding out something about a person that fudemenatly changes how you see them. I'll never understand why Marvel Editorial chose Mephisto for this story of all the catalysts they could have picked.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Is there new evidence in favor of sticking to the status quo, or for reversing One More Day?

Reversing OMD isn't just about the marriage. It's also about returning Spider-Man to a version where he is competent and growing as a person.

I think you can make a strong argument for reversing it:

1. The post-OMD era, while it's liked by some, has not been as acclaimed and has not contributed to the Spider-Man Mythos as much as the pre-OMD era.

1a. Kraven's Last Hunt, which features a married Spider-Man, is still more memorable and beloved in the culture than anything post-OMD.

1b. If we stick only to 21st century writers, JMS is still the most influential 616 Spider-Man writer of the 21st century (Morlun, Spider-Totems, the reinvention of Aunt May, the relationship with Iron Man and the Avengers, job as a teacher - set up in the Insomniac game and recently mentioned by Feige as his favorite of Peter's jobs). The second most influential is Paul Jenkins (reinvented Green Goblin post-Ressurection, added the subplot of Norman looking at Peter like a son, added to Doc Ock's origin, added nuance to Venom, etc.). Admittedly not all of these are related to the marriage, but anyone who gets into Spider-Man comics is likelier to check out stories by these writers first, and these writers all wrote a competent Spider-Man who is married to MJ.

1c. Whatever the post-OMD era added to the mythos that stuck long-term (Mr. Negative, maybe Agent Venom), they don't need a single Peter.

2. Marvel is about brand synergy, right? Peter is married or in a long-term relationship with MJ in every other medium right now - ITSV, Insomniac, and MCU (soon to be reunited). All of those are hot and mainstream right now.

[Lee]

Maintaining OMD arguably leads to the core comics being out of sync with the franchise at large; the major tie-ins that reach more audiences (including most of the future comic book customers) paint a different picture of what's "normal" and all that. A key reason I reject the OMD version of the comics is due to the original movie being my franchise gateway and setting a very different baseline of what the franchise's "normal" status quo is (anecdotal, to be sure, but it illustrates the theory).

I will concede that brand synergy isn't always a "must" and it's not the be all end all of building a franchise, but it's still an oddity that the main comics -- the source material of it all -- contradict everything else on this point. Make of all that what you will.

2. Marvel is about brand synergy, right? Peter is married or in a long-term relationship with MJ in every other medium right now - ITSV, Insomniac, and MCU (soon to be reunited). All of those are hot and mainstream right now.

This doesn't track.

One More Day wasn't about ensuring that Peter and Mary Jane are never in a romantic relationship again. It was about making it so that Spider-Man isn't married.

Spider-Man isn't married in any of the 8 live action Spider-Man films. He isn't married in any of the 21st century television series, and won't be in the upcoming Freshman Year series. He isn't married married in any of the past 20 years worth of Spider-Man video games.

Into the Spider-Verse had a blond-haired Peter Parker who was married and died at the start of the movie, and a brown-haired Peter Parker who was past his prime and divorced. The protagonist was a teenage Spider-Man, Miles Morales.

You could argue that Peter and Mary Jane being together as boyfriend and girlfriend would be good for brand synergy.

But as a married couple? What would that be synergizing with?

[Matt Rat]

Spider-Man isn't married in any of the 8 live action Spider-Man films.

The themes of marriage are a big deal for both MJ and Peter in the Raimi trilogy. MJ runs away from her wedding to John out of love for Peter, and Peter intends to propose to MJ in Spider-Man 3. You could say OMD was synergising a bit with how that went, as the proposal is rejected, but only because MJ makes a deal with the Goblin so he'll leave Peter alone, just as MJ agreed to the deal with Mephisto so he'd leave Peter alone.

Spider-Man 3 deals with putting off the marriage pretty well, with Peter realizing he still has a lot of growing up to do and returns the ring to May.

He isn't married married in any of the past 20 years worth of Spider-Man video games.

The last video game where he was married was probably Web of Shadows, but he is in a committed relationship with MJ in Edge of Time and by the end of the recent video game, has reconciled with MJ and attempting to make their relationship function again.

Into the Spider-Verse had a blond-haired Peter Parker who was married and died at the start of the movie, and a brown-haired Peter Parker who was past his prime and divorced.

That movie ends with Peter B. Parker deciding to win back his Mary Jane, and she looks happy to see him.

[Lee]

As I said, these are all examples of Peter and Mary Jane in a relationship as boyfriend and girlfriend, not husband and wife.

Are you certain that they were married in Web of Shadows? I've not seen any evidence of that.