How have things changed since One More Day?

[Ultimate Captain America]

In separate ongoings. It's not like a single series or show with two Captain America's together.

Actually, that's exactly what it is.

[Lee]

I don't agree that it was like the Ditko era because the context with Ditko was completely different. It was the Lee/Ditko run who first introduced MJ and set her up as Peter's eventual endgame.

Has Steve Ditko ever said this?

[Mercwmouth12]

Has Steve Ditko ever said this?

He's got family can just ask them

[jackolover]

Just the same as the marriage never left either, it vanished from one universe but new stories about it kept being published, and still does.

Yes. Funny how the marriage kept coming up.

[jackolover]

I don't agree that it was like the Ditko era because the context with Ditko was completely different. It was the Lee/Ditko run who first introduced MJ and set her up as Peter's eventual endgame. The fact that Ditko left before the MJ reveal doesn't negate that.

Slott on the other hand has gone out of his way to diminish MJ's role as a supporting character and love interest. Sure, to an extent, he inherited that status quo from OMD. However, it can't entirely be blamed on OMD. Nick Spencer proved that Quesada and Editorial are only against Peter being married; they're not against Peter dating MJ. Their separation in the past 15 years (minus the 3 years where Spencer was on) can thus be more attributed to Slott and Wells, even though OMD was the trigger of that.

What that also means is that Slott and Wells are anomalies even by the standards of the group of writers that are pro-OMD.

So, let me get this clear. Are you saying Slott and Wells are deliberately excluding MJ while the Ditko run positively included MJ. Could you elaborate on that argument?

[Kaitou D. Kid]

So, let me get this clear. Are you saying Slott and Wells are deliberately excluding MJ while the Ditko run positively included MJ. Could you elaborate on that argument?

Yes, they are deliberately excluding MJ. I called them anomalies because excluding her is technically not a prerequisite of post-OMD. The only prerequisites are that Peter can't be married or written "too old".

Not sure what you mean by "positively included" MJ, though. Point is that Ditko included MJ.

[jackolover]

Yes, they are deliberately excluding MJ. I called them anomalies because excluding her is technically not a prerequisite of post-OMD. The only prerequisites are that Peter can't be married or written "too old".

Not sure what you mean by "positively included" MJ, though. Point is that Ditko included MJ.

I suppose I took your viewpoint on Ditko’s era to mean something like MJ was engaging Peter Parker , like for the first time. How to make it more clear? The romantic entanglement between Peter and MJ was being formed so sparks fly, and there is the excitement of a possible love affair. That’s what I thought you may have been referring to and was what I was getting at in describing it as positively included. Whereas Slott and Wells are negatively excluding the possibility of romantic involvement between Peter and MJ.

[WebLurker]

I suppose I took your viewpoint on Ditko’s era to mean something like MJ was engaging Peter Parker , like for the first time. How to make it more clear? The romantic entanglement between Peter and MJ was being formed so sparks fly, and there is the excitement of a possible love affair. That’s what I thought you may have been referring to and was what I was getting at in describing it as positively included. Whereas Slott and Wells are negatively excluding the possibility of romantic involvement between Peter and MJ.

Wasn't Stan Lee pretty consistent that Gwen was supposed to be the OTP and MJ was just the rival who wouldn't win in the end, but that got switched around thanks to various chance decisions over the years (and Gwen not proving quite a popular)? (Heck, I always thought that one of the reasons that MJ works as Peter's significant other is that, just like real life, they weren't predestined to get together but the relationship grew over time and not only clicked, but the winding road to get there is not only a logical progression, but, in hindsight, feels inevitable.)

[jackolover]

Wasn't Stan Lee pretty consistent that Gwen was supposed to be the OTP and MJ was just the rival who wouldn't win in the end, but that got switched around thanks to various chance decisions over the years (and Gwen not proving quite a popular)? (Heck, I always thought that one of the reasons that MJ works as Peter's significant other is that, just like real life, they weren't predestined to get together but the relationship grew over time and not only clicked, but the winding road to get there is not only a logical progression, but, in hindsight, feels inevitable.)

Yeah, the Gwen question does cloud MJ predominance in the Spider-Man story. Initially Peter was infatuated with MJ, but he got distracted when Gwen came along, and MJ was content to lie low and just hang out with Gwen as her best friend. Then Peter connected with MJ as Peter was on the rebound after Gwen’s death. Then it took a slow burn as the two of them found each other, and Peter proposed.

It was later revealed MJ always knew Peter was Spider-Man when she saw Spidey leave Peter’s house one night. So I suppose MJ kept persisting knowing what Peter had to hide his whole life. It’s a very strange arrangement between Peter and MJ, but they did finally resolve that they could live with each other and put up with the danger. MJ eventually did defend herself against some of Peters supervillain enemies, so she seems to be in the know, or has a peculiar ability to act while under attack. And as we have seen when she was with Tony Stark, she has the ability to fight attackers. She reminds me of Sue Richards in that regard. MJ has a superhuman mindset. She’s not afraid, like most normals.

[Celgress]

Wasn't Stan Lee pretty consistent that Gwen was supposed to be the OTP and MJ was just the rival who wouldn't win in the end, but that got switched around thanks to various chance decisions over the years (and Gwen not proving quite a popular)? (Heck, I always thought that one of the reasons that MJ works as Peter's significant other is that, just like real life, they weren't predestined to get together but the relationship grew over time and not only clicked, but the winding road to get there is not only a logical progression, but, in hindsight, feels inevitable.)

Yup, although Stan & co. wanted to preserve the "Archie/Betty/Veronica" Love Triangle for as long as possible before that point. Heck, from what I've seen, heard, and read about the subject Stan initially wanted the triangle to go on forever but post-Gwen's shocking (at the time) demise, he slowly warmed to the idea of MJ being the "one". It's sad their successors have reverted in thinking whereas Stan & co. were mature enough to admit they made a mistake as things evolved.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Wasn't Stan Lee pretty consistent that Gwen was supposed to be the OTP and MJ was just the rival who wouldn't win in the end, but that got switched around thanks to various chance decisions over the years (and Gwen not proving quite a popular)? (Heck, I always thought that one of the reasons that MJ works as Peter's significant other is that, just like real life, they weren't predestined to get together but the relationship grew over time and not only clicked, but the winding road to get there is not only a logical progression, but, in hindsight, feels inevitable.)

That was only after Ditko left. Stan Lee made her the OTP during the Romita run because he liked Gwen more. However, MJ was technically the original OTP, having been introduced before Gwen and being foreshadowed as the OTP in the Ditko run. When Conway took over, he killed off Gwen and made MJ the main love interest again for that reason.

[Lee]

Where are you getting this from? Are you just projecting your own preference?

[Matt Rat]

Where are you getting this from?

Conway's own words

[Lee]

Where is Gerry Conway getting this from? Unless Ditko said anything about his intentions, this sounds like nothing more than speculation.

[WebLurker]

Yeah, the Gwen question does cloud MJ predominance in the Spider-Man story. Initially Peter was infatuated with MJ, but he got distracted when Gwen came along, and MJ was content to lie low and just hang out with Gwen as her best friend. Then Peter connected with MJ as Peter was on the rebound after Gwen’s death. Then it took a slow burn as the two of them found each other, and Peter proposed.

My memory may not be the best, but I thought that Peter was already interested in Gwen before the blind date and didn't really seriously consider MJ until years later.

Yup, although Stan & co. wanted to preserve the "Archie/Betty/Veronica" Love Triangle for as long as possible before that point. Heck, from what I've seen, heard, and read about the subject Stan initially wanted the triangle to go on forever but post-Gwen's shocking (at the time) demise, he slowly warmed to the idea of MJ being the "one". It's sad their successors have reverted in thinking whereas Stan & co. were mature enough to admit they made a mistake as things evolved.

Maybe, although it also seems like Lee was known to just go with what was popular, even if it meant backtracking (like how he tried to avoid fan ire over killing Gwen in the first place).

That was only after Ditko left. Stan Lee made her the OTP during the Romita run because he liked Gwen more. However, MJ was technically the original OTP, having been introduced before Gwen and being foreshadowed as the OTP in the Ditko run. When Conway took over, he killed off Gwen and made MJ the main love interest again for that reason.

As I recall, MJ was just a running joke during the Lee/Ditko stuff and there are no receipts that MJ was ever going to be the OTP until well after Gwen died.

Where is Gerry Conway getting this from? Unless Ditko said anything about his intentions, this sounds like nothing more than speculation.

I think I remember the quotes, but they're getting mixed up; Conway never claimed that Ditko intended MJ to be "the one." In fact, what he admitted was that that was his own fan theory (specifically, he assumed that MJ was it due to her grand entrance) and that influenced his work on the franchise and helped pave the way for it to come true.