August Reading Club: The Twelve by JMS!

[MRP]

I have the deluxe HC collecting all 12 issues (picked up at Ollie's a while back), which is why I nominated it. I just hadn't had a chance to dive in yet. I did last night, reading the first 6 issues. I probably won't get to the last 6 until this weekend sometime, most likely Sunday). I prefer to withhold comments until I have read it all, but I will say the absolute unrelenting grimness makes it a tough sled at times. It's interesting, but not quite engaging so far. Civil War era Marvel is not a favorite of mine, so that doesn't help, and I hadn't realized that was the backdrop when I picked up the book. The series was recommended to me by some folks whose tastes and mine have a large intersection if we were doing a Venn diagram, but I am beginning to suspect this one might fall outside that intersection.

Weston's art is beautiful and detailed, but it feels a bit static to me, lacing a bit of the dynamism that my favorite artists have in spades. Pretty to look at, but it doesn't pull me through the pages or the story. The narrative storytelling is absolutely clear, so that's not the issue, it just doesn't have that certain something that propels me through the issue. JMS has always been hit or miss with me. When he hits, I really love his stuff, but when he misses it becomes a slog for me. I like B5 and Midnight Nation, Rising Stars less so, and kind of on the fence on his Marvel stuff (I like things about his Spidey and Thor runs, but his take on Doc Strange in the Strange mini is perhaps my least favorite take on that character ever published). When I like JMS least though is when he gets a big self-indulgent in his writing and everybody is wallowing in their misery. The Twelve feels like this half way in. In his better stuff, it sets up redemptive arcs for at least some of the characters (as we see often in B5 and saw in Midnight Nation), so there's a chance this could go that direction still and I may find I like it a fair bit more after its concluded than I do halfway through, but aside from the POV character of the Phantom Reporter, I don't even see the seeds of redemptive arcs being planted in any of the character arcs, just unrelenting misery in the their attempts to find a place in the world 60 years later.

So I haven't given up all hope of liking this, but its not trending well 6 issues in. It's not bad by any stretch of the imagination, it's just turning into the kind of story I don't much enjoy reading these days.

-M

[Johnny Thunders!]

The ending reveal is definitely one I didn’t see coming. That’s a tough one to predict. I thought each issue did a nice job of introducing the character. Rockman, the Black Widow, and the Witness were my favorites. I did not know they were old Marvel characters?!? Incognito and Fatale cover similar ground but Weston’s art and design were great. Rockman’s story had the real emotional weight.

[thwhtGuardian]

Just finished the second HC(issues 7-12 and the Spearhead).

More emotional hit when read at one sitting than I recalled the first time. Really liked issue #11, with the Rockman sub-plot(probably the father in me).

Spearhead was unnecessary to the story but let Weston play with some of the better known WWII characters.

Ended up enjoying more on the second time around but I can see why the Premiere Edition HCs(original cover $24.99) were on sale at my LCS for $10 several years ago.

Enjoyable(up from Meh). 7.5/10

I feel like Spearhead definitely works better as an introduction rather than a coda, if I was structuring the collections I'd definitely lead with it rather than end with it despite the fact that it was published afterwards.

[Mister Mets]

I feel like Spearhead definitely works better as an introduction rather than a coda, if I was structuring the collections I'd definitely lead with it rather than end with it despite the fact that it was published afterwards.

I just read it and agree completely. It's a solid standalone story set during World War 2 which works pretty well to tease mysteries and introduce these eccentric characters. It was published at the time because JMS' scripts were delayed (If I recall, there were some earlier problems before that) but it makes more sense as a prelude than an epilogue.

I am 4 issues in and it’s a solid read. This era of heroes is a great place to go. Westons designs are all interesting. I wonder if this came out the same time as Incognito and Fatale?

Weston's art is great. He seems to have a classic illustrator style that some golden age and silver age artists were going for. He reminds me of Russ Manning (the original Magnus the Robot Fighter) and Frank Hampton (Dan Dare) which works quite well with the retro-future story.

[thwhtGuardian]

I just read it and agree completely. It's a solid standalone story set during World War 2 which works pretty well to tease mysteries and introduce these eccentric characters. It was published at the time because JMS' scripts were delayed (If I recall, there were some earlier problems before that) but it makes more sense as a prelude than an epilogue.



Weston's art is great. He seems to have a classic illustrator style that some golden age and silver age artists were going for. He reminds me of Russ Manning (the original Magnus the Robot Fighter) and Frank Hampton (Dan Dare) which works quite well with the retro-future story.

He definitely has a Russ Manning vibe

[Mister Mets]

I've been on vacation which limited by ability to read and comment on specific comics.

Now I was able to check out the rest of the Twelve, and it's pretty damn good. It is a bit derivative, and reminds me a bit of Watchmen and many many comics with a golden age hero waking up decades later. Within that context, there are some decent twists. The characters are pretty well realized.

[Mister Mets]

One thing that I find interesting is how much the idea of using obscure golden age characters is both a strength for the story but also a flaw. On the one hand using obscure characters that no one really remembers(never mind loves) means they are blank slates and can be whatever they need to be in order to tell the story with out alienating any readers which grants JMS a tremendous amount of creative freedom.
On the other hand because these are characters that nobody knows or cares about they are blank slates...which means you have to completely build these characters up in your readers minds and by choosing to use twelve characters that gives you a pretty big task. And while there are some characters like Phantom Reporter,Master Mind Excello and to an extent Captain Wonder and Black Widow the others are woefully underdeveloped and with out built in knowledge about them from familiarity it makes them feel incredibly flat and forgettable.
I kind of wonder if the story would have been more impactful if it had used slightly more recognizable characters.

Would you have preferred something in the Marvel Universe dealing with more familiar characters, or some kind of standalone project in its own world with new versions of name characters?

[thwhtGuardian]

Would you have preferred something in the Marvel Universe dealing with more familiar characters, or some kind of standalone project in its own world with new versions of name characters?

I think both tactics could have worked, though both have their limitations as well. As I said earlier, with more familiar characters you can rely on your reader's prior knowledge of the characters instead of actually building them up, an implied short hand that would allow you to focus more on developing the mystery. But, by the same token, because the readers have their own notions of the characters you're then slightly limited creatively as you have to adhere to what is already known and expected.

Pastiche sort of gives you those same strengths and weaknesses, in order to focus more on developing your world and plot you can use the crutch of familiarity because people will expect Not-Batman to have a personality and motivations similar to Batman but if you stray too far from Batman in your Not-Batman pastiche you run the risk of alienating readers because they can't follow the motivation for his actions.

The middle ground is just be a better writer and take the time to properly introduce your characters.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I think the book suffers because it has been done so well in so many books. I did not see that villain reveal coming. At least with The Golden Age, they have the Ultra Humanite. It’s not too far a stretch to see the big reveal. With this one, it was absurd, surreal, is it a take on Superman, The Superman? I think Thor is my favorite of JMS’s comic work with his Squadron Supreme universe second.

[Reviresco]

I feel like Spearhead definitely works better as an introduction rather than a coda, if I was structuring the collections I'd definitely lead with it rather than end with it despite the fact that it was published afterwards.

Took your advice and did this. It is a nice introduction and helped me keep the characters straight.

I love Chris Weston's art. I'm reminded a bit of Brian Bolland. His style fits this book. Shout out to the colorist on Spearhead. The Supers were all so brightly colored, they really leapt out in the WWII background and soldiers -- which fits in with the theme of the book.

In the first issue of the series proper, the scenes where they created a false reality for the 12, reminded me of the same post frozen scene with Captain America in his first movie.

That ending grabbed me, also. Totally unexpected and is yanking me into the second issue, though I did have other plans.

[thwhtGuardian]

Took your advice and did this. It is a nice introduction and helped me keep the characters straight.

I love Chris Weston's art. I'm reminded a bit of Brian Bolland. His style fits this book. Shout out to the colorist on Spearhead. The Supers were all so brightly colored, they really leapt out in the WWII background and soldiers -- which fits in with the theme of the book.

In the first issue of the series proper, the scenes where they created a false reality for the 12, reminded me of the same post frozen scene with Captain America in his first movie.

That ending grabbed me, also. Totally unexpected and is yanking me into the second issue, though I did have other plans.

Yeah, the scene where they try to soften the blow of the 21st century definitely came straight from the Ultimates.

[Reviresco]

My trade doesn't have any info on this, but has JMS ever said how he found this group of heroes? When I say they're obscure, I really mean it as several of these characters only appeared a single time in publication and even the more "popular" among them only had four or five appearances.

In selecting his roster, Straczynski asked Marvel for a laundry list of unused characters that hadn't been seen or heard from in more than half a century, and simply picked his favorites. "[Editor] Tom Brevoort, knower of all things Marvel, gave me a list of, I think, 20 or 25 characters," Straczynski explained. "I went through them carefully, researching each one individually, looking for characteristics that might make for good combinations and good conflict.

"I eventually opted for splitting them into three groups: the typical super-hero/scientifically created hero like Captain Wonder, Dynamic Man and Electro; those with a touch of the supernatural such as Black Widow and Master Mind Excello' and those I classified as 'tourists,' heroes with no powers, just a cool costume and a .45 caliber such as The Phantom Reporter and Laughing Mask.

"This gave me a really good cross-section of the kind of heroes you had back then."

https://www.cbr.com/jms-talks-timely-about-the-twelve/

[Reviresco]

Yeah, the scene where they try to soften the blow of the 21st century definitely came straight from the Ultimates.

Wasn't aware of that, as I didn't really follow the Ultimate line. Thinking more on it, I think there was an effort by the military to keep the 12 in the dark and ignorant of the modern era. I mean, none of them thought of finding any of the old heroes of their time? Especially when they learned Cap was alive, after basically going thru the same sort of Rip Van Winkle sleep?

I did finish the whole book, instead of doing what I was supposed to, so I found the story and art hooked my interest quite well. It had a few twists I'd forgotten, but I felt the 'romance' with Black Widow and the Phantom Reporter to be ... lacking and unearned. In fact, I thought JMS was indicating Black Widow was a lesbian half way through the book. And I'm not so sure it needed to be tied to the 616 universe as it was in the end. Though, arguably, since these characters haven't appeared AFAIK, it could have been an alternate universe.

In that interview I linked, JMS said this wasn't like Watchmen or other takes, because his goal was to compare the 1940s and today. I'm not so sure he succeeded with that entirely, as the mystery took up quite a bit of the focus, as well as all the secrets the heroes held, and the loneliness each of them carried. There really wasn't any modern superheros in the story.

[Reviresco]

I think the book suffers because it has been done so well in so many books. I did not see that villain reveal coming. At least with The Golden Age, they have the Ultra Humanite. It’s not too far a stretch to see the big reveal. With this one, it was absurd, surreal, is it a take on Superman, The Superman? I think Thor is my favorite of JMS’s comic work with his Squadron Supreme universe second.

I didn't think it was a take on Superman. I mean, yes, he kept calling himself the Man of Tomorrow, but he wasn't a man, at all. His tomorrow of perfection was impossible for men, actually, and only possible for machines like himself and Electro. He was a cross between Frankenstein's monster and Jim Hammond.

[thwhtGuardian]

Wasn't aware of that, as I didn't really follow the Ultimate line. Thinking more on it, I think there was an effort by the military to keep the 12 in the dark and ignorant of the modern era. I mean, none of them thought of finding any of the old heroes of their time? Especially when they learned Cap was alive, after basically going thru the same sort of Rip Van Winkle sleep?

I did finish the whole book, instead of doing what I was supposed to, so I found the story and art hooked my interest quite well. It had a few twists I'd forgotten, but I felt the 'romance' with Black Widow and the Phantom Reporter to be ... lacking and unearned. In fact, I thought JMS was indicating Black Widow was a lesbian half way through the book. And I'm not so sure it needed to be tied to the 616 universe as it was in the end. Though, arguably, since these characters haven't appeared AFAIK, it could have been an alternate universe.

In that interview I linked, JMS said this wasn't like Watchmen or other takes, because his goal was to compare the 1940s and today. I'm not so sure he succeeded with that entirely, as the mystery took up quite a bit of the focus, as well as all the secrets the heroes held, and the loneliness each of them carried. There really wasn't any modern superheros in the story.

Yeah there wasn't much of a comparison between the two eras. It felt like we were going to get a story around those lines when we saw the Phantom Reporter taking up a job writing at the Bugle but nothing really came of it.