Wrong turns made in storylines for DC Comics

[brandnewfan]

I think I'm one of the few who liked New 52 Birds of Prey when it first launched.

But around issue 7 or 8, the initial storyline was left unresolved and moved onto another storyline. I'm pretty sure this was editorial but it really brought it down for me.

[Agent Z]

Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing. He should have just kept his Robin gimmick. He could do that and still do his own thing apart from Batman. That would have stopped the excess of Robins after him, which I think has become a real problem for DC.

DC has replaced characters far too often for anyone to believe this.

What's more, I would argue that it's out of character for Batman. He really doesn't seem like the type of dude who would be having a massive "family" like that.

Batman's reputation as a loner is far more head canon than truth.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, Dick wasn't even the first to be replaced in a role. That'd be Jay Garrick.

[Proto Man]

You can say that, but I don't see why someone else would have that role when it is already being occupied by a popular character. I would argue that Batman, Superman, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman have never been replaced in earnest. Jay was replaced because he was out of publication for a while. The audience had completely shifted by that point and most of it probably didn't know about him or remember him, so someone decided to put new spin on it for then current audiences. I would say his situation and Dick's are not apples to apples. Dick has consistently remained one of DC's most popular and visible characters since he arrived.

[Jim Kelly]

Yeah, Dick wasn't even the first to be replaced in a role. That'd be Jay Garrick.

Sorry, but that's always been a rather thin argument when people have used it before to justify replacing one character with another. While the time, between when ALL-STAR COMICS 57 (February-March 1951) bit the dust and when SHOWCASE 4 (September-October 1956) appeared on the stands, might not seem long to us old fossils, to the kids buying comic books it was a lifetime. The readership was assumed to rotate out every five years. The Flash as a concept was dead and buried--Julius Schwartz was trying to revive the idea and against the opposition of the senior editors. It's an entirely different kettle of fish.

I'm also sure there were other cases where they replaced one character with another, using the same codename, before the Scarlet Speedster. Johnny Thunder being a case in point.

Nightwing as a codename was already in use, first by Kal-El and then by Van-Zee, when Dick Grayson stole it. I still feel that codename should belong to the Superman Family not the Batman Family.

[Zero Hunter]

I know most won't agree with this but Raven should have died at the end of the Trigon story in the first arc of the Baxter series New Teen Titans. Every writer since has struggled to find anything interesting to do with her character besides rehashing the "my father is the devil and I might go evil myself" storyline.

[astro@work]

Sorry, but that's always been a rather thin argument when people have used it before to justify replacing one character with another. While the time, between when ALL-STAR COMICS 57 (February-March 1951) bit the dust and when SHOWCASE 4 (September-October 1956) appeared on the stands, might not seem long to us old fossils, to the kids buying comic books it was a lifetime. The readership was assumed to rotate out every five years. The Flash as a concept was dead and buried--Julius Schwartz was trying to revive the idea and against the opposition of the senior editors. It's an entirely different kettle of fish.

I'm also sure there were other cases where they replaced one character with another, using the same codename, before the Scarlet Speedster. Johnny Thunder being a case in point.

Nightwing as a codename was already in use, first by Kal-El and then by Van-Zee, when Dick Grayson stole it. I still feel that codename should belong to the Superman Family not the Batman Family.

Hasn't Dick held the Nightwing title for almost 40 years now? (Outside of 1.5 years as Agent Grayson and another couple of years as uncostumed hobo Rick Grayson). I'd argue Dick has a better claim at this point to Nightwing than Kal-El and Van-Zee's silver age runs under than name.

[D.Z]

Can't think of anything else but the Titans Franchise going in the crapper in the 90's.

Everything else doesn't really bother me.

[Nomads1]

I know most won't agree with this but Raven should have died at the end of the Trigon story in the first arc of the Baxter series New Teen Titans. Every writer since has struggled to find anything interesting to do with her character besides rehashing the "my father is the devil and I might go evil myself" storyline.

I agree. Dick and Kory's wedding was also, IMHO, a mistake. I really never saw them as a "perfect couple." Far from it. I guess that is the biggest problem with the NTT franchise. Its reluctance to move foward, to change. To let go of characters that have completed their arcs and bring in new ones. Titans Hunt was an attempt to alter this, bringing in Red Star, Phantasm, Pantha, Wildebeest, etc..., however, it's widely known the creative conflicts that happened during those days, with Marv already a bit creatively burnt out, and new editors wanting to forcably take the reins away from him. As a result, for me, they ended up going overboard, with braindead Cyborg, Team Titans, godlike Donna, etc..., and it didn't really work. The change to Arsenal's Titans also had some potential, and sure was different from the, lets say, Robin/Nightwing Titans, however, IMHO, the lack of a strong creative partner, with an artist with super-star potential (no offense meant to William Rosado, which was quite competent, but no super-star), and the Justice League approach, with characters that had their own book, and whose storys moved foward elsewhere, sadly ended up dooming it.

Peace

[Jokerz79]

Making Barbara Gordon Batgirl again.

1: Cassie and Stephanie were fine Batgirls.

2: I understand the way Barbara was crippled was problematic and this was seen as correcting that, but it was corrected decades earlier with Oracle. IMO Oracle is the superior character and a more important character to the larger DCU.

[caj]

Making Barbara Gordon Batgirl again.

1: Cassie and Stephanie were fine Batgirls.

2: I understand the way Barbara was crippled was problematic and this was seen as correcting that, but it was corrected decades earlier with Oracle. IMO Oracle is the superior character and a more important character to the larger DCU.

Completely agree with this. Whoever came up with the idea to make Barbara into Oracle (and I must confess I can't remember whose idea it was) was a genius. Oracle became a vital member of DC Comics and could be used in almost ANY book. Compared to Batgirl, Oracle was so much more important to helping out with defeating DC villains.

[Nomads1]

Completely agree with this. Whoever came up with the idea to make Barbara into Oracle (and I must confess I can't remember whose idea it was) was a genius. Oracle became a vital member of DC Comics and could be used in almost ANY book. Compared to Batgirl, Oracle was so much more important to helping out with defeating DC villains.

John Ostrander in Suicide Squad.

Peace

[ultradav]

Armageddon 2001. The annuals were really great. But changing the reveal last minute resulted in quite a mess. This was before the internet / social media, so the "leak" was not really that big of a deal. Changing to Hawk from Captain Atom was bad because:

• Monarch was a genius who wanted to create an orderly totalitarian society. Hawk was a lunkhead who literally embodied chaos. If anything it made more sense for Dove to have become Monarch
• Dove - this was before "women in refrigerators" was a thing, but a great example. She was helpless and didn't even get to defend herself before being slaughtered in order to advance the male hero's character development. Pretty shameful for such a great new character, very happy she was eventually brought back
• The Hawk & Dove annual was the only one to specifically rule out the two as candidates for Monarch
• The whole thing just underscored the poorly thought out nature of the premise. Even if it were Captain Atom, does it make sense for a hero to suddenly turn on everyone? Also the title and concept ensured it would be dated within ten years. It should have just been that no one became Monarch in the end

[caj]

John Ostrander in Suicide Squad.

Peace

Thanks so much.

[blunt_eastwood]

Do people have beef with Zero Hour?