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  1. #61
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Does this forum actually like any comic?
    I love some things (XMR and NM)
    I hate some things (that I will never read, XForce)
    I'm apathetic about most things (this Event, IXM)

    You really shouldn't concern yourself with what others are feeling and why...because it's unimportant...just be certain of your own feelings and why you have them. If you're loving every part of this event that's ALL that matters.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 08-17-2022 at 10:01 PM.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  2. #62
    Mighty Member kevlon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchFox View Post
    Reading this comic with Angelica Jones going "Avenger this, Avenger that" makes me want to puke.
    I get that she was an Avenger but she WAS in New Warriors too (and longer than her Avenger stint) and yet she's completely forgetting about her old team, New Warriors. I am tired of writers erasing Angelica's history with the New Warriors whenever she appears in any comic. And I am so sick of any mention or reference of Amazing Friends thing in the comics even though Angelica barely interacted with Iceman in the 90s and yet she acts like Iceman is her best friend without acknowledging her old friends (New Warriors) and her former boyfriend (Vance Astrovik a.k.a Justice).
    I wouldn't worry about it. Duggan seems to have forgotten that the last team Firestar was on, was actually the X-Men.

    There were other mutants on the New Warriors team. It would be my dream to have them show up at some point.

  3. #63
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    I love this team better than the previous X-team. Iceman gets to shine here much better than when he was in Marauders.

  4. #64
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Iceman was in Marauders?
    "Cable was right!"

  5. #65
    Fantastic Member Agent Grayson's Avatar
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    I've been enjoying Judgment Day for the most part, but I felt the same disappointment with this issue that I've felt for most of Duggan's run. It's not that it's bad, it just all feels like filler. The plot was all show and no substance. I think there will continue to be issues with juggling the large cast - most of the previous team felt extraneous a lot of the time - but I now have additional concerns about characterisation. Havok came across like an idiot despite only having three lines. Firestar was a non-entity. Jean and Magik got decent showings as team leaders, but that seemed to relegate Cyclops to poor comic relief.

    That being said, I thought the art was great and I did enjoy Jean and Magik's roles, as well as Iceman and Synch's team-up.

    I've found that any criticism of the Krakoa era often brings the reply of "You should be happy, X-Men is a more traditional X-book!" But I don't think it's satisfying as either a traditional superhero book or as an exploration of a challenge to the Krakoan era - which, in my mind, is what it should be. It's founded on the premise of Cyclops and Jean striking out from the Quiet Council but the potential tension and ramifications of that have basically been ignored. It feels very shallow.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Does this forum actually like any comic?
    The forum is not a monolith, it's a collection of people with unique personal opinions. So, the answer is yes, no, and everything in-between.

  7. #67
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewMutant View Post
    I'm shocked that they aren't using Havok's HG look.

    Is Iceman in the new solo Infinity comic look?

    I am bummed this jumps right into the event. And echo that having to Captains on a team with both Cyclops and Jean Grey seems... awkward. Lets get a Commander X series exploring the roles of the Captains. They were security for the QC at one point, at least to human functions.
    Not yet but he's wearing his Infinity costume on the cover of issue #17.
    "Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
    Krakoa, Arakko, and Otherworld forever!

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Grayson View Post
    I've found that any criticism of the Krakoa era often brings the reply of "You should be happy, X-Men is a more traditional X-book!" But I don't think it's satisfying as either a traditional superhero book or as an exploration of a challenge to the Krakoan era - which, in my mind, is what it should be. It's founded on the premise of Cyclops and Jean striking out from the Quiet Council but the potential tension and ramifications of that have basically been ignored. It feels very shallow.
    That's because:

    1) A natural consequence of this move would be to increase the pressure on the Quiet Council to eventually develop into a fully fledged democracy elected by the Krakoan people rather than a bunch of aristocrats chosen by themselves, but Marvel isn't interested in moving away from it any time soon, partially because most writers and editors almost certainly would have no idea how to make that transition, part because they want to milk the premise as much as they can;

    Mind you, I really like Immortal X-men and I don't mind it continuing, but it is a book that should come with an expiration date and later be changed to something very different.

    2) Another natural consequence would be a gradual move to a more political and militant Cyclops, like in the Decimation/Utopia era, as his moves anger the dominant aristocracy of the QC while nothing much changes, and because people would eventually notice they can chose their X-men, but not their political leaders (it was pretty obvious Hickman was going somewhat that way eventually: he was going to give Scott everything he ever wanted in Krakoa- family, Jean back, but having Emma on the side as well, peace of mind, etc, only to have it shattered when the dark deals that made Krakoa are revealed and the status quo moves to something else very different, and we would see Scott's reaction to all that)

    The problem is that JDW already made it clear he HATES, HATES, HATES that version of the character and he's not alone at Marvel. From describing Gillen's UXM as a Brotherhood book, to how much he loves Schism, for Rosenberg's run being clearly designed as a **** you to anyone that loved Cyclops and Emma relationship and anything that happened with the characters from Morrison to 2019, etc, while we know for a fact Marvel was shocked most people sided with Cyclops both in Schism and specially AvX, with fans yelling how Cyclops was right at conventions, etc. JDW himself has been on these boards on quite a few occasions arguing with fans (myself included) usually about this very period or Rosenberg's terrible run.

    Then they decided to double down it by having being Scott killed off panel and being described as the mutant Hitler, and only did a U-turn after the Inhumans thing crash and burned, but still already in Krakoa era the History of the Marvel Universe thing, edited by Breevort (the architect of AvX) had Utopia being described as a fascist dictatorship.

    So, they can't have a book that explores the consequences of a challenge to Krakoan status quo because it would result in changes they are unwilling to make, and also because many people are Marvel are still butthurt people didn't like their bad stories and didn't want Cyclops back to how he was decades before because they don't share their obsession with keeping the status quo like it was in their childhoods, and they can't have a truly satisfying classic superhero book because it doesn't really fit the present era, so I don't see it becoming a much better book.

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    The bit where Everett gets his flesh arm cut off, but then it’s ok and he just grows back his arm because he’s synched to Iceman really leaned into the thing where Iceman’s powers don’t even make internally consistent sense.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    The bit where Everett gets his flesh arm cut off, but then it’s ok and he just grows back his arm because he’s synched to Iceman really leaned into the thing where Iceman’s powers don’t even make internally consistent sense.
    I thought that was pretty funny -- and explaining it outloud mid-battle felt very old school - it could even have been in a thought balloon.

    For myself, I dig these x-men comics in the krakoa era a lot.

  11. #71
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    The bit where Everett gets his flesh arm cut off, but then it’s ok and he just grows back his arm because he’s synched to Iceman really leaned into the thing where Iceman’s powers don’t even make internally consistent sense.
    I thought if Bobby gets damaged as a human changing to ice wouldn't do anything?
    "Cable was right!"

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    I thought if Bobby gets damaged as a human changing to ice wouldn't do anything?
    No, he's been firmly established since Carey's run as being able to heal damage done even to his flesh and blood form by just changing to his ice form, 'resetting' by repairing himself with new ice or replacing the molecules that make up his ice form, and then changing back. Basically, however his power transmutes ice to flesh and blood......it can be ANY ice, it doesn't need to be the ice he originally changed his body into. So this actually isn't inconsistent with how his powers have worked for years. Carey had him heal himself when poisoned in human form by turning into ice and making sure that his ice form was composed entirely of brand new molecules that didn't carry over from his initial transformation, and he just turned that into a brand new organic body for himself.

    Bobby's powers are decidedly wtf-y, to be sure, but there's a clear progression of them and consistency to how they work when it comes to this aspect....at least among writers who bother using his powers beyond their most basic levels. Like, to be clear....there IS inconsistency in the sense that some writers over the past ten years HAVE acted like Bobby's as vulnerable as anyone else when in flesh-and-blood form, but those writers tend to be the ones who never use Bobby to do anything other than make ice slides and bad jokes. Everyone else is like yeah, even if he's in human form when you full on blow him the **** up, he just grabs more moisture and Build-a-Bobbys himself a new body.

    So yeah, I'd argue what Ev did there is perfectly consistent with how Bobby's power has worked in the past.

  13. #73
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    That's because:

    1) A natural consequence of this move would be to increase the pressure on the Quiet Council to eventually develop into a fully fledged democracy elected by the Krakoan people rather than a bunch of aristocrats chosen by themselves, but Marvel isn't interested in moving away from it any time soon, partially because most writers and editors almost certainly would have no idea how to make that transition, part because they want to milk the premise as much as they can;

    Mind you, I really like Immortal X-men and I don't mind it continuing, but it is a book that should come with an expiration date and later be changed to something very different.

    2) Another natural consequence would be a gradual move to a more political and militant Cyclops, like in the Decimation/Utopia era, as his moves anger the dominant aristocracy of the QC while nothing much changes, and because people would eventually notice they can chose their X-men, but not their political leaders (it was pretty obvious Hickman was going somewhat that way eventually: he was going to give Scott everything he ever wanted in Krakoa- family, Jean back, but having Emma on the side as well, peace of mind, etc, only to have it shattered when the dark deals that made Krakoa are revealed and the status quo moves to something else very different, and we would see Scott's reaction to all that)

    The problem is that JDW already made it clear he HATES, HATES, HATES that version of the character and he's not alone at Marvel. From describing Gillen's UXM as a Brotherhood book, to how much he loves Schism, for Rosenberg's run being clearly designed as a **** you to anyone that loved Cyclops and Emma relationship and anything that happened with the characters from Morrison to 2019, etc, while we know for a fact Marvel was shocked most people sided with Cyclops both in Schism and specially AvX, with fans yelling how Cyclops was right at conventions, etc. JDW himself has been on these boards on quite a few occasions arguing with fans (myself included) usually about this very period or Rosenberg's terrible run.

    Then they decided to double down it by having being Scott killed off panel and being described as the mutant Hitler, and only did a U-turn after the Inhumans thing crash and burned, but still already in Krakoa era the History of the Marvel Universe thing, edited by Breevort (the architect of AvX) had Utopia being described as a fascist dictatorship.

    So, they can't have a book that explores the consequences of a challenge to Krakoan status quo because it would result in changes they are unwilling to make, and also because many people are Marvel are still butthurt people didn't like their bad stories and didn't want Cyclops back to how he was decades before because they don't share their obsession with keeping the status quo like it was in their childhoods, and they can't have a truly satisfying classic superhero book because it doesn't really fit the present era, so I don't see it becoming a much better book.
    As a Spider-Man fan continually struggling with how the head honchos at Marvel still think One More Day was an amazing, spectacular, and sensational way to right the proverbial ship when it was veering too off-course for their liking, even though a lot of the fans appreciated and liked (most of) the changes and development the twenty years before OMD brought to his character and mythos overall . . . I can relate. It's like these people are so incredibly myopic and narrowly focused on what they think the characters are or should be that they not only ignore, but sometimes attempt to outright shame and shut (or shout) down, any input that doesn't agree with that narrow focus and interpretation.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #74
    Julian Keller Supremacy Rift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    No, he's been firmly established since Carey's run as being able to heal damage done even to his flesh and blood form by just changing to his ice form, 'resetting' by repairing himself with new ice or replacing the molecules that make up his ice form, and then changing back. Basically, however his power transmutes ice to flesh and blood......it can be ANY ice, it doesn't need to be the ice he originally changed his body into. So this actually isn't inconsistent with how his powers have worked for years. Carey had him heal himself when poisoned in human form by turning into ice and making sure that his ice form was composed entirely of brand new molecules that didn't carry over from his initial transformation, and he just turned that into a brand new organic body for himself.

    Bobby's powers are decidedly wtf-y, to be sure, but there's a clear progression of them and consistency to how they work when it comes to this aspect....at least among writers who bother using his powers beyond their most basic levels. Like, to be clear....there IS inconsistency in the sense that some writers over the past ten years HAVE acted like Bobby's as vulnerable as anyone else when in flesh-and-blood form, but those writers tend to be the ones who never use Bobby to do anything other than make ice slides and bad jokes. Everyone else is like yeah, even if he's in human form when you full on blow him the **** up, he just grabs more moisture and Build-a-Bobbys himself a new body.

    So yeah, I'd argue what Ev did there is perfectly consistent with how Bobby's power has worked in the past.
    Do you think Bobby could grow giant ice arms and hands, then turn them into giant flesh arms and hands, and then he just created these giant and gross limbs laying around? It'd be pretty morbid, but I think it could make for a fun prank.

    EDIT: Actually, if that's possible, he'd theoretically be able to shapeshift and change his looks, or don his human form after going kaiju.
    2024: The Year of Hellion

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Does this forum actually like any comic?
    Absolutely. I myself am enjoying Red, Marauders, Legion, and Immortal. However I hope this Judgement Day proves to be a relevant and bombastic event fitting of the "Event" title. Still got 5 more issues so let's hope Gillen can make it work till the end cuz #3 preview is losing me lol

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