House Of The Dragon. Because Martin really doesn't want to finish his book serie

[JBatmanFan05]

Watching the inside the episode for the end of episode 9; the director/writer and producers said they fabricated this scene to give Rhaenys a moment to be a badass. They stated they started with the idea of a dragon getting loose during Aegon's coronation. Then made it Rhaenys. Even though this didn't happen in the books and there's no reason for Rhaenys to still be in Kings Landing after the Driftmark succession was settled a second time.

Action movie **** for a trailer was TPTB's thinking here. It's really goofy and undermines the serious tone the episode was going for.

It was a ludicrous scene on many levels and not even close to anything in the book. And unnecessary if the goal was give Rhaenys a badass moment because..well, book scenes.


Overall, I didn't care for the episode. Just all over the place and also boring. A search for Aegon that felt like unnecessary padding. The silly "accidental" death of Beesbury, accidental deaths just like that aren't realistic (however Commander Cole slashing his throat in the book seemed the most likely, and would have highlighted how tense and murderously premeditated this whole fateful council meeting really was, not the weird improvised clusterf*** we saw).

The deviations from the book are fine until they become so silly and unrealistic and greatly undermine the book characters and events. Book Otto never wanted to kill Rhaenyra at the outset or drastically attempt to escalate anything, he concealed the king's death to crown Aegon yes, but actually tried then to somewhat (since he didn't have a death wish) to avoid war via deals/diplomacy (much like a later Hand Tywin Lannister probably would have).

The show would have us believe the maesters' recording of history is so wrong and incompetent that they got it wrong that Kingsguard Lord Commander Harrold Westerling died 20 years before King Viserys. Cole was supposed to be Lord Commander long before this episode, he's supposed to be a seasoned leading influential figure right now (not in the future), kinda like a corrupt police chief.

[Doctor Know]

It was a ludicrous scene on many levels and not even close to anything in the book. And unnecessary if the goal was give Rhaenys a badass moment because..well, book scenes.


Overall, I didn't care for the episode. Just all over the place and also boring. A search for Aegon that felt like unnecessary padding. The silly "accidental" death of Beesbury, accidental deaths just like that aren't realistic (however Commander Cole slashing his throat in the book seemed the most likely, and would have highlighted how tense and murderously premeditated this whole fateful council meeting really was, not the weird improvised clusterf*** we saw).

The deviations from the book are fine until they become so silly and unrealistic and greatly undermine the book characters and events. Book Otto never wanted to kill Rhaenyra at the outset or drastically attempt to escalate anything, he concealed the king's death to crown Aegon yes, but actually tried then to somewhat (since he didn't have a death wish) to avoid war via deals/diplomacy (much like a later Hand Tywin Lannister probably would have).

The show would have us believe the maesters' recording of history is so wrong and incompetent that they got it wrong that Kingsguard Lord Commander Harrold Westerling died 20 years before King Viserys. Cole was supposed to be Lord Commander long before this episode, he's supposed to be a seasoned leading influential figure right now (not in the future), kinda like a corrupt police chief.

You are so right. I forgot all about that goofy change of Ser Criston slamming Bessbury's head into the table killing him. When the book and the stop-motion video of the Dance both say Criston slit his throat.

That would've helped highlight that the Small Council, the Hand and the Kingsguard were all in it together against Rhaenyra and TV Alicent just showed up to the party.

What are TPTB thinking about? Goofy scenes are never a way to try to outsmart the source material.

[Kirby101]

Are these show runners the same people responsible for the horrendous end to season 8?

[hyped78]

Rhaenys says "dracarys" and we don't need a second season. I've been waiting for something big to happen... but there's none of that thus far.

[JBatmanFan05]

Are these show runners the same people responsible for the horrendous end to season 8?

It really feels like it with all the unearned character evolutions and headscratching or silly events.


It's become super clear that GRRM better understands how powerful people think and operate and move more than HBO's showrunners for his material.

[80sbaby]

It really feels like it with all the unearned character evolutions and headscratching or silly events.


It's become super clear that GRRM better understands how powerful people think and operate and move more than HBO's showrunners for his material.

GRRM is directly involved with this series, though.

[Captain Smith]

Was the footsie weirdo scene in the book? I found that a touch unpleasant. How did Allicent strike that deal with Footsie? Yuk.

[hyped78]

Was the footsie weirdo scene in the book? I found that a touch unpleasant. How did Allicent strike that deal with Footsie? Yuk.

I also didn't like that scene

[JBatmanFan05]

Was the footsie weirdo scene in the book? I found that a touch unpleasant. How did Allicent strike that deal with Footsie? Yuk.

It is certainly not in the book. Maesters dutifully recorded some salaciousness, but, hypothetically, even if they knew of that (which they very likely wouldn't have), they might not have recorded that one. Though the scene fits with GRRM's vision/worldview where unpleasant people doing unpleasant things is just a fact of life GRRM doesn't think we should run from and ignore and bury as if it doesn't happen.

(I suspect the scene's purpose, from the showrunner's perspective, in part was to differentiate Larys and his motivations some from Littlefinger and Varys and Mysaria)

GRRM is directly involved with this series, though.

Sure, but you can tell from all the Condal and director and writer interviews that GRRM is not in charge much of the details or direction of the show (just as with GoT). Seems like he's mostly there to maybe opine on certain questions and be a voice in the room sometimes.

[Omega Alpha]

Also, one thing the show hasn't addressed is that Viserys and Alicent have another son. GRRM said he would appear in s02 (he's supposed to be in Oldtown at this point), but casual viewers are going to be totally baffled if that actually happens, when there was no reason to at least mention him or show him as a baby.

[ZeroBG82]

(I suspect the scene's purpose, from the showrunner's perspective, in part was to differentiate Larys and his motivations some from Littlefinger and Varys and Mysaria)

I disagree, the scene isn't about Larys at all. It's about Allicent and how she STILL has no real power. She'll always have to answer to men, or honor their weird feet fetishes in order to get what she wants. She thinks she's a player, but she's still, and will always be, just a pawn.

[TheCasualReader]

Also, one thing the show hasn't addressed is that Viserys and Alicent have another son. GRRM said he would appear in s02 (he's supposed to be in Oldtown at this point), but casual viewers are going to be totally baffled if that actually happens, when there was no reason to at least mention him or show him as a baby.

Yeah, I'm not sure why they didn't just mention him once or twice after the timeskips to establish that Alicent has a third son and that he's in Oldtown.

[JBatmanFan05]

I disagree, the scene isn't about Larys at all. It's about Allicent and how she STILL has no real power. She'll always have to answer to men, or honor their weird feet fetishes in order to get what she wants. She thinks she's a player, but she's still, and will always be, just a pawn.

I agree. Though I stand by my "in part" part. It's mostly about Alicent and that even those who claim to be her ally (her father included) use her for their own ends.
(And I think, they also thought they could reveal more distinguishing traits about Larys, develop him more in the process...I think almost any scene involving two main characters is always aimed at developing both characters and never just one)

[Nathaniel Gray]

Was the footsie weirdo scene in the book? I found that a touch unpleasant. How did Allicent strike that deal with Footsie? Yuk.

That was an icky scene and an interesting choice for the show runners to make.

[Rend20]

Cole was supposed to be Lord Commander long before this episode, he's supposed to be a seasoned leading influential figure right now

It does seem like they've really downplayed his character on the show.

In the books, he was considered to be arguably the best warrior in Westeros at the time and became the Lord Commander while he was still serving Rhaenyra. That's why he was such a big coup for the Greens because he had some clout and was generally respected at the time.

His actions as the Kingmaker are long remembered as both Jaime and Aerys Oakheart mention him in ASOIAF. Jaime refers to him as the "best and worst" of us while Aerys talks about how he split the Kingsguard in two as a result of his influence. Not to mention it was said he was the one that convinced Aegon to take up the crown.

On the show, he's been reduced to essentially being nothing more than a loyal dog for Alicent. He only gets named Lord Commander because of her, and then crowns Aegon like a day later. He's basically become a one note character and it's hard to see that changing in the future given his characterization up to this point.