House Of The Dragon. Because Martin really doesn't want to finish his book serie

[Kirby101]

Hey, they introduced two likable characters, we have to kill them both in the same episode, as well as the only descent man in the Council.

[JBatmanFan05]

I agree with this (and especially the bolded): "House of the Dragon Really Makes Me Miss Cersei Lannister" (excerpts)

Six episodes into House of the Dragon, HBO’s Game of Thrones prequel about the dragon-riding Targaryen dynasty that is really about the headaches of a blended family, I find myself in a place I never expected to be: I miss Cersei Lannister. Cersei! The queen who orchestrated Robert Baratheon’s and Ned Stark’s deaths, who gaslit Sansa and raised Westeros’s most monstrous teenager. The woman who turned mass murder into a side hobby. I’m like, she would really feel like a breath of fresh air here.

It’s not for the obvious reasons, like Lena Headey’s astonishing performance, or even nostalgia for the early seasons of Thrones, which had none of the CGI and all the subtlety and deftness that HotD lacks. The truth is, I miss Cersei’s competence. I miss her experience; her sense of how a court and alliances work; and her knowledge that power is not simply conferred upon you. I miss—and yes, I’m amazed to be writing this—her feminism, her refusal to surrender to the limits of what women in Westeros were allowed to be. With House of the Dragon’s depiction of female protagonists as wide-eyed naifs or entitled whiners, the show has done the impossible—it’s made Cersei’s brutal, blood-soaked rise feel, in comparison, like breaking a glass ceiling.

https://slate.com/culture/2022/09/ho...rones-hbo.html

[Omega Alpha]

Cersei is competent now? LOL. I dropped by s05, but hadn't she at that point pretty much surrendered her power to a bunch of religious nutjobs? And the book version was even dumber.

[Ramsay Snow]

Cersei is competent now? LOL. I dropped by s05, but hadn't she at that point pretty much surrendered her power to a bunch of religious nutjobs? And the book version was even dumber.

On top of that, I seem to remember Tywin chastising Cersei for her incompetence in allowing Joffrey to do a lot of stupid **** before Tywin came in.....Selective memory's an amazing thing.

[Celgress]

I've liked it so far. It is a worthy prequel to Game of Thrones.

[Doctor Know]

I agree with this (and especially the bolded): "House of the Dragon Really Makes Me Miss Cersei Lannister" (excerpts)


https://slate.com/culture/2022/09/ho...rones-hbo.html

LMAO did the writer of the article even watch the old show?

Cersei was notoriously terrible at playing the Game of Thrones. Everyone told her so, and it culminated with her slut walk at the end of season 5. The show creators Benioff and Weiss only kept Headey around in a misguided attempt to showcase her for Emmy Awards. The creators changed Cersei from being an ultra-narcissist who exploits her children to live vicariously through them. But Benioff and Weiss were unable to create a character for Cersei or maintain her role in the story convincingly. It's why the character and the actress had nothing to do season 6 through 8, except stand on a balcony with a glass wine.


If anything, Rhaenyra is Cersei done right. Both have huge chips on their shoulder's for being born women in a world where their are societal constraints put on them. Both only want the throne out of a since of vanity and entitlement. Not because they intend to change the system or reform society. Both Cersei and Rhaenyra think being queen means they can do whatever they want, without consequences. Rhaenyra is better than Cersei, because she actually has a stake in the succession. There's a nuance to her character because if she was a male, her ascension and behavior wouldn't be questioned. Rhaenyra is basically a less violent Daemon.

[Omega Alpha]

On top of that, I seem to remember Tywin chastising Cersei for her incompetence in allowing Joffrey to do a lot of stupid **** before Tywin came in.....Selective memory's an amazing thing.

Yeah, and remember if Littlefinger hadn't sided with her in S01 for his own reasons, Stannis would be King and she would be dead.

[hyped78]

I think episodes 5 and 6 (I watched them together yesterday) have improved things overall, especially episode 5. I think there's moving parts and intrigue going on right now, I feel the show has improved for me.

A couple of random thoughts:
- I don't get it why Laena committed suicide. Yes, I know that she was obviously traumatized at losing her baby, but in the wider context of things she has two young kids to take care of?
- Absolutely love (to hate) new character Larys. HofD needed a character like that, as devious as they come.

[JBatmanFan05]

On top of that, I seem to remember Tywin chastising Cersei for her incompetence in allowing Joffrey to do a lot of stupid **** before Tywin came in.....Selective memory's an amazing thing.

It's true that Cersei was in certain important matters incompetent. I more agree with the article with the part that said that Cersei at least had some more apparent (on-screen) "sense of how a court and alliances work; and her knowledge that power is not simply conferred upon you."

Of course, one might counter that Cersei (if she even bothered much with the histories) perhaps had the benefit of learning some from the old mistakes of people like Rhaenys and Rhaenyra and even Alicent.

[JBatmanFan05]

A couple of random thoughts:
- I don't get it why Laena committed suicide. Yes, I know that she was obviously traumatized at losing her baby, but in the wider context of things she has two young kids to take care of?

I didn't think about this, but it's actually a good point. From interviews, Condal basically said they wanted a more "active" and (what they thought) fitting end for her, but yeah, you raise a good point that her end does a lot to undercut her. Now, I think you misread the scene in that she didn't lose the baby yet, and Daemon was possibly going to C-section her (we'll probably never know if he was going to), and so she possibly felt she was practically dead already (from a risk calculating standpoint) so she was going out on her own terms.

- Absolutely love (to hate) new character Larys. HofD needed a character like that, as devious as they come.

You might find this interesting (though it's perhaps unofficial):

AVC [interviewer]: Personally I wish we could have seen more of the family dynamic with Larys, and why he had it out for you. Do you think he intended to kill his father and brother or were they just the collateral damage of his political ambitions?

[Gavin Spokes who plays Lord Lyonel Strong]: I think [Larys] probably was treated badly by family, friends, and everyone. And we came up with this story, actually. Larys’ mother had died in childbirth and it was something to do with his deformity, his clubfoot, and his father never really had forgiven him. There was never any love, but that was what we’d been discussing over a few beers in the hotel one night.

https://www.avclub.com/house-of-the-...iew-1849592789

[hyped78]

I didn't think about this, but it's actually a good point. From interviews, Condal basically said they wanted a more "active" and (what they thought) fitting end for her, but yeah, you raise a good point that her end does a lot to undercut her. Now, I think you misread the scene in that she didn't lose the baby yet, and Daemon was possibly going to C-section her (we'll probably never know if he was going to), and so she possibly felt she was practically dead already (from a risk calculating standpoint) so she was going out on her own terms.

You might find this interesting (though it's perhaps unofficial):

https://www.avclub.com/house-of-the-...iew-1849592789

You're right, I misunderstood the scene in that she hadn't lost the baby yet. But it still feels strange that she was willing to commit suicide. It just didn't make much sense for me.

Thanks for sharing the link on Larys - I can't wait to see where they're going with this character next!

[Sutekh]

I think episodes 5 and 6 (I watched them together yesterday) have improved things overall, especially episode 5. I think there's moving parts and intrigue going on right now, I feel the show has improved for me.

A couple of random thoughts:
- I don't get it why Laena committed suicide. Yes, I know that she was obviously traumatized at losing her baby, but in the wider context of things she has two young kids to take care of?

I got the impression that the baby didn't come out (and was likely dead) and that she was going to die anyway, and wanted to not die over several agonizing hours.

- Absolutely love (to hate) new character Larys. HofD needed a character like that, as devious as they come.

Yes. I like someone with no redeeming characteristics. Got to have some Joffrey / Ramsey sorts to push the expectations down and make us gloss past the creepy or unlikable bits from the protagonists.

[hyped78]

No comments after the latest episode?

I thought the "eye for an eye" scene between Alicent and Rhaenyra was potentially the best moment of the season so far for me. There was so much tension in that room, great writing and acting.

[JBatmanFan05]

One thing that kinda irks me is that I fear the show is veering too far to taking sides in the coming war. GRRM (via the fictional maesters/historians) didn't take sides, painting a tapestry of two power hungry sides with good-ish and bad-ish figures (and also just unclear characters) on each side. And GRRM's Fire & Blood doesn't downplay the strength of Alicent's claim, which is basically a "democratic" claim (of course a relatively weak idea of democracy in Westerosi faux medieval sense), a claim that the realm democratically voted in 101 that male heirs should be favored in the royal line of succession. There's a great little scene in the book where Rhaenyra asks the peace-seeking Maester Orwyle (who's not really presented as ever not lacking integrity) why he sides with Alicent and he, according to one historian (who's probably more correct than Mushroom), apparently gives a long erudite answer of the strength of Alicent's argument citing the Council of 101, rule of law, etc.

I don't know. I hope the show tries to mess with the audience more regarding the morality of the sides by showing how some on the side of Greens really genuinely have a less personal passionate valid-ish conviction (at least one not driven primarily by personal animus against Rhaenyra like we see with Alicent and Cole, or Otto's naked selfishness) that Alicent is in the right.

[hyped78]

One thing that kinda irks me is that I fear the show is veering too far to taking sides in the coming war. GRRM (via the fictional maesters/historians) didn't take sides, painting a tapestry of two power hungry sides with good-ish and bad-ish figures (and also just unclear characters) on each side. And GRRM's Fire & Blood doesn't downplay the strength of Alicent's claim, which is basically a "democratic" claim (of course a relatively weak idea of democracy in Westerosi faux medieval sense), a claim that the realm democratically voted in 101 that male heirs should be favored in the royal line of succession. There's a great scene in the book where Rhaenyra asks the peace-seeking Maester Orwyle (who's not really presented as ever not lacking integrity) why he sides with Alicent and he, according to one historian (who's probably more correct than Mushroom), gives a long erudite answer of the strength of Alicent's argument citing the Council of 101, rule of law, etc.

I'm not familiar with the Fire & Blood book but the TV show, right now, is clearly - like you say - taking Rhaenyra's side. I don't know if that's going to change but I see that too right now.