I watched again and saw it this time. I also counted, it is 2 seconds, not 10 or 15. So I was probably looking away for those two seconds.
And that gurgle thing. Yes there is a small cough and the Maestra looks up concerned, after telling the King he has a son.
But, you know, I guess if I was more engaged in the show, I wouldn't be as focused on this.
There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!
Springing some off part of my last post in this thread...HOTD could end up the greatest show ever made by humankind for all eternity, and I still won't accept 97%-99% of it as either a) GoT canon (I don't even accept all of its own insular canon as GoT canon) or b) ASoIaF canon. As I mentioned before, I absolutely love GRRM's Rashomon-style approach to Westerosi history, which results in, IMHO, an endlessly intriguing somewhat mysterious history of events and the key figures who drive them. It makes larger-than-life characters seem even moreso. Rhaegar was really the character (in both GoT and ASoIaF) who really got to me love GRRM's love of mystery, of some historical figures being misunderstood or somewhat/largely unknowable, as is the case with real human history.
However, I will accept as canon this show's wrinkle/addition of the (Aegon the Conqueror) Targaryen "song of ice and fire" prophecy thing, because at least part of that addition is from GRRM himself who apparently mentioned it in passing (from the interviews I read, it's not clear that GRRM specified who in Targ history knew the prophecy and who didn't, Condal seemed to suggest that the show's creators/writers came up with Viserys specifically knowing and telling Rhaenyra, this strict consistent passing down thing). This addition of the show's is maybe the only big thing from it that I will accept as canon (or rather my basically personal fusion headcanon).
This review sums up well what I love so much about Fire & Blood:
https://ew.com/book-reviews/2018/12/...rones-prequel/
Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 08-25-2022 at 12:13 PM.
Things I love: Batman, Superman, AEW, old films, Lovecraft
Grant Morrison: “Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.”
I thought the first episode was pretty strong outside of the cg of the dragons looking a little cheap in places.
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Who’s going to watch the next episode tonight?
I think the problem with HoD is just that it is a “prequel.” Prequels’ nature as sequels are derivative from an almost always superior original, trying to make up some new backstory or retcon. It’s just not going to be as good because it’s not the original.
Parts of Godfather II are the only prequel examples I can think of where the prequel was superior, probably because it was a device used to compare and contrast that Michael’s journey was one from family to isolation, while Vito’s was one of establishing his family from a place of isolation. The backstory wasn’t used just to tell some supposed “untold” story to sell more tickets, but it was also a way to tell a story about one character’s descent.
I digress, but HoD isn’t Godfather II. Practically no other sequel or prequel is, either. That said, HoD is about as good as a prequel, which is a form of sequel, gets, so far.
I loved GoT. To me, GoT the HBO series is THE GoT. GRR Martin’s story is the TV series, as he’s not finishing the books. Ah, well — it’s his life and he can spend it doing what he wants. While the ending was flawed, the ride was fun. It was a huge treat for us fantasy fans. It’s going to be a long time before we see villains as fun to hate as the Lannisters on TV again.
I’ll keep watching HoD. Until something new and original, or slightly less derivative comes along, it’s more than worth an hour of my time every week.
BTW, who else thinks the show’s costume and character designers on Daemon owe a lot to Michael Whelan’s book covers for Michael Moorcock’s Elric, right down to the dragon-winged helmet? I’m not saying GRR ripped off Moorcock, or that HBO did. I think Daemon is a pretty different character. But visually, that character and costume design clearly take a lot from Whelan’s covers, maybe P. Craig Russell’s and Michael Gilbert’s comics, too. Again, I’m going to keep watching. It will be interesting to see if Daemon comes after his niece. As it’s basically GRR Martin-HBO, I fully expect he will, with buckets of blood spilled.
Last edited by Brian B; 08-28-2022 at 10:09 AM.
Agree with the first two bolded, strongly disagree with the last.
I enjoyed the episode, but that's largely on being a fan of the book series, the TV series (for a time), and the lore involved. The easter eggs, hearing the houses mentioned that largely weren't involved in the GoT series for example, was pretty neat.
The characters, not a single one grabbed my interest. Even as a d##k or smarmy bastard Daemon is a pale, pale shadow compared to the antagonists of GoT. Rhaenyra had exactly zero going on outside of liking dragons (and in her family, that's a bit like Sansa liking horses). In fact, while I'm going to address the fleshing out of characters below I'd say you had a much better idea who Sansa was after 5 minutes of screen-time than you did Rhaenyra through the entire pilot episode of this series that largely focused on her story.
Viserys was like what would happen if you combined Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark, then squeezed every ounce of charisma or identifiable traits out of the result. Even his Hand (and I love Rhys Ifans in other things) was pretty petty in the scheming department, openly advocating for what he wanted and trying to get his daughter into the King's bed. Kid stuff. The only character they seemed to try to develop was Daemon, and again the whole smarmy d##k (who's also sad) thing was pretty lame. Even the Gold Cloak's rampage seemed kind of forced and silly.
I'd contrast that to (and in doing so, disagree with Ramsay up there) the pilot of GoT (which didn't have the benefit of 8 seasons of worldbuilding and history to draw from) that was very quick to flesh out interesting characters that we (well, I at least) wanted to see more of in Arya (the bow scene did more in 20 seconds than again an hour did for Rhaenyra), Tyrion, Ned, Robert, and Jon. As to it being a "fairly pedestrian" story, I'd say both the threat of the White Walkers and the ending did far more for me than anything this pilot did.
That said, it is the pilot. Also, it could be as good as the Game of Thrones and it'd have a hard time measuring up to it. And it almost certainly isn't going to be that good. So expectations should remain low, and we should all view this as hopefully something good enough to pass the time. So far, it's that. I'm not hooked, I don't care about anyone in the story currently (seriously, kill off every major character introduced and I'd have exactly as much interest in the next episode), but it passes the time.
One sad fact I learned about myself: I'm shallow! Rhaenyra was about the least attractive actress I've seen in the POV/protagonist role, especially when portraying a princess (not to mention of a royal line that's supposed to be known for their otherworldly beauty and power). Her father looked like they slapped a Legolas wig on a homeless man they paid in cheeseburgers to come in and read lines. Shouldn't matter, but if you have Paul Giamatti playing the heartthrob love interest to the princess that sort of thing is going to stick out. You're not going to luck into an Emilia Clarke with every whack at this franchise, but the difference is jarring.
Two episodes in, and yes, it is a little slow. Actually, tonight’s episode seemed slower than the first one, although after the first episode’s horrific child birth scene, I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.
The show looks nice. I’m sure they saved some money with some old sets.
I’m still enjoying it, but it’s still seems to labor under the weight of being a sequel to a great original, and that’s a hard act to follow.
Last edited by Brian B; 08-29-2022 at 12:09 AM.
Starting @ the @24:18 mark they talk about how the show is making some unnecessary changes, because they're too busy trying to make a political point of some kind about gender. Especially the mortality rate of births in the middle ages.
Last edited by Emperor-of-Dragons; 08-29-2022 at 01:00 AM.
Rest in Peace mom, we love you and still miss you.
8-29-53/11-30-21
To each their own. I think if you were to isolate her face, ignoring costuming/hairstyles, she wouldn't get a second look in line at most 7/11s, let alone sell a show on posters. But if you think she's beautiful, that's great. And again, isn't a major factor in the enjoyment of a show. But to me she is jarringly plain, and frankly a bit awkward looking. And again, if you told me they were trying to do a good thing in casting a homeless man as the King I'd say that's admirable, but they should have given him a shave and a shower first.
Going by casting decisions dating back to the the start of cinema/TV (and, if we're being honest, as far back as stage performances were thought up) I'd say a lot of people care. And I'll say once again (though it seems to keep getting ignored to facilitate proper pearl-clutching) it's not a factor in my enjoyment of the series. Just noteworthy to see a large network not prioritizing looks in casting when it is so common, and this is a tentpole franchise of the network as well as one of the (if not the) main characters.
Did watch the second episode, would echo my opinions on the first. Still feel no connection to any of the characters, still feel like the scheming is sort of ho-hum, but it's fine enough to pass the time. Build up is important, but it'd be nice to see one character whose arc or development interests me. Perhaps when they do the time-jump one of Rhaenyra or Alicent's adult characters will be more interesting than what we're currently working with.
It's not so much pearl clutching as just pointing out that it looks like casual-sexism to comment negatively about an actress's looks.
As an aside on Rhaenyra, I looked up the actress and I was surprised to find that Milly Alcock was 22 years old as I definitely would have pegged her as younger on the show.
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2nd Episode was pretty good. Was King Daddy sleeping with his daughter's girl friend and thus proposed? That's a bit of an age difference. In those Middle Ages level societies, it wasn't that unusual. Dr. Who is pretty good and really not detectable as his other work.
Blond young women on dragons, seem to be the thing. Hope Rhaenyra doesn't have a similar fate to Dany. Won't try to find out to spoil it.