MCU Scarlet Witch vs Pre-crisis Superman

[Masonicon]

Who take this?

[Dark Soul # 7]

PC Supes blitzes her into paste before she can even begin to process a single thought.

[Masonicon]

PC Supes blitzes her into paste before she can even begin to process a single thought.

how about she use her Multiverse of Madness feats?

[Nik Hasta]

how about she use her Multiverse of Madness feats?

She's still far too slow

[Dark Soul # 7]

how about she use her Multiverse of Madness feats?

I took those into account and...

She's still far too slow

^...that.

[Powerboy]

Who take this?

Speaking of too slow, I'm way too slow in responding here. He destroys her before a synapse fires.

[KJS]

I’m genuinely baffled by the idea that anyone would think this is a fight.

It’s generally considered that PC Superman is on a par with COMIC BOOK Thanos. That he is far beyond lightspeed in terms of travel, reaction and thought. That he’s strong enough to tow planets.

What on Earth is stopping him from, quite literally, obliterating Wanda into an atomic red mist before she even contemplates thinking about starting to attack him?

[choptop]

I’m genuinely baffled by the idea that anyone would think this is a fight.

It’s generally considered that PC Superman is on a par with COMIC BOOK Thanos. That he is far beyond lightspeed in terms of travel, reaction and thought. That he’s strong enough to tow planets.

What on Earth is stopping him from, quite literally, obliterating Wanda into an atomic red mist before she even contemplates thinking about starting to attack him?

Without speed factor she would stomp him.

[Powerboy]

Without speed factor she would stomp him.

I haven't seen everything with MCU Wanda. So I do wonder, what are her feats as far as going against a guy who shrugs off the destruction of solar systems or comparative power like nothing- and that's probably downplaying PC Superman. His levels at high-end were crazy. If we assume that, no matter what tactic he uses, she automatically gets first strike, maybe. Suppose he just punches the floor with that same force that allowed him to tow a row of planets going so far back they vanish in the distance? Suppose that, with bloodlust on, he directs that vibration towards the first soft, squishy thing it reaches, which happens to be her? He doesn't even have to reach her to get first strike. In fact, even without super speed, just his normal reaction time, he has enough experience and showings to argue he could still strike first. Heat Vision? Super Breath? Super Cold Breath?

There's no guarantee that she wins just by taking away his super speed because that doesn't prove she is faster and gets first move.

[StupidMoniker]

Without speed factor she would stomp him.

The character that is specifically weak to magic might lose to the magic user if we handwave that the magic user gets the chance to use her magic, I agree.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Without speed factor she would stomp him.

Or it might be a quick draw and he has just as much of a chance of incinerating her with his heat vision.

But that's only if we arbitrarily take away his super speed.

[choptop]

I haven't seen everything with MCU Wanda. So I do wonder, what are her feats as far as going against a guy who shrugs off the destruction of solar systems or comparative power like nothing- and that's probably downplaying PC Superman. His levels at high-end were crazy. If we assume that, no matter what tactic he uses, she automatically gets first strike, maybe. Suppose he just punches the floor with that same force that allowed him to tow a row of planets going so far back they vanish in the distance? Suppose that, with bloodlust on, he directs that vibration towards the first soft, squishy thing it reaches, which happens to be her? He doesn't even have to reach her to get first strike. In fact, even without super speed, just his normal reaction time, he has enough experience and showings to argue he could still strike first. Heat Vision? Super Breath? Super Cold Breath?

There's no guarantee that she wins just by taking away his super speed because that doesn't prove she is faster and gets first move.

Can't she just turn him into ice or something? Or can he defend against that?

[Shai-Hulud]

The character that is specifically weak to magic might lose to the magic user if we handwave that the magic user gets the chance to use her magic, I agree.

Can't she just turn him into ice or something? Or can he defend against that?

Action Comics #537, 1982.

Pre-Crisis Superman, to defend against the magic of Lord Satanis, spins like a top and shatters the spell.

action-comics_527-superman-breaks-free-copy.jpg

So, just because a magic-user gets to throw the first punch doesn't necessarily mean PC Supes is down and out.

[Powerboy]

Can't she just turn him into ice or something? Or can he defend against that?

My main point was that just taking away super speed and reducing him to whatever speed he would have otherwise might still not be an auto-win for her because he might still be faster. Or, it could be MAD. She wastes him with a thought that turns him to ice at the same time his freeze breath hits her and freezes her to death or shatters her.

But, as someone else pointed out, his "weakness to magic" fluctuates depending on the writer. Lord Satanis, an extremely powerful demon lord, attacked him with an all-out "eldridge blast" only to have Superman block it by "spinning at exactlly the right speed". Then, he knocks Satanis back through time by punching him at exactly the right vibrational frequency, back to a time when Satanis's wife can reach him and imprison him.

It's one of the reasons I bit my lip when people laugh at the idea of PC Superman beating some of the earlier versions of Galactus. It's not because I have some deep need for Superman to win. It's because he was presented, high-end consistently, as being able to simulate just about any power by "spinning at the right speed" or "vibrating at the right frequency" or whatever nonsense was needed to accomplish the task.

But, even eliminating his speed which isn't eliminated here, he has high-end feats without his powers of being fast. Even in the no super speed scenario, he has insta-kill options from range.

Now, I have not seen "WandaVision" or her most recent appearance, so I really don't know what she's done. I don't know if her reality warping or whatever has the ooph to destroy someone with his insane durability feats.

[choptop]

Action Comics #537, 1982.

Pre-Crisis Superman, to defend against the magic of Lord Satanis, spins like a top and shatters the spell.

action-comics_527-superman-breaks-free-copy.jpg

So, just because a magic-user gets to throw the first punch doesn't necessarily mean PC Supes is down and out.

But that's not how spells work is it? How does spinning stop magic? Is that super speed or just PC logic?