Didio Talks About The 5G Plans for Superman

[Vordan]

Didio talks about the 5G plans for Superman here (around 53 minutes in):

-Bendis was involved with Rucka and Zdarsky in plotting out the “last” JL story which wouldn’t kill the old guard off but would give them new roles that made them step aside for the younger generation
-Superman’s powers were fading because as an “energy battery” he couldn’t store as much energy anymore, the Authority were a team he built to circumvent this problem
-Jon and Damian were going to be foes, but akin to Professor X/Magneto where there’s still respect and a bond between the two. Jon and Luke/Jace were not going to be close because Luke/Jace didn’t trust how close to Damian Jon seemed
-Big endgame story for 5G, built up over 5 years, was going to be Clark busting Bruce out of prison where he had been put for the death of Bane, and Jon/Damian/the new Batman would be going after those two. Final showdown between the old guard and the new seems like that would have put a cap on 5G

[Comic Lore]

I was just saying what a terrible idea taking Superman out of his own book was, not surprised it was Dan's.

[Sacred Knight]

Yup, sounds just as uninteresting and bad as IF ended up being/is. Giving the classics new roles to make room for a new generation is something that should only ever be done in an Elseworlds, or you have another Earth if you want it an actual ongoing line.. That's why the progression of Earth-Two worked back in the day, there was Earth-One as well.

Had Didio stayed there might have been better writers on the projects as compared to now, but you can only do so much with such a fundamentally tone deaf idea in the first place.

[Vordan]

At this point I think they should do an “Ultimate DC” that uses the 5G plan. This half-assed attempt with IF hasn’t really worked out, and it’s clear the classics aren’t going anywhere or ceding their spot at the center of the DCU.

[Venomized-spider-man]

Didio talks about the 5G plans for Superman here (around 53 minutes in):

-Bendis was involved with Rucka and Zdarsky in plotting out the “last” JL story which wouldn’t kill the old guard off but would give them new roles that made them step aside for the younger generation
-Superman’s powers were fading because as an “energy battery” he couldn’t store as much energy anymore, the Authority were a team he built to circumvent this problem
-Jon and Damian were going to be foes, but akin to Professor X/Magneto where there’s still respect and a bond between the two. Jon and Luke/Jace were not going to be close because Luke/Jace didn’t trust how close to Damian Jon seemed
-Big endgame story for 5G, built up over 5 years, was going to be Clark busting Bruce out of prison where he had been put for the death of Bane, and Jon/Damian/the new Batman would be going after those two. Final showdown between the old guard and the new seems like that would have put a cap on 5G

So basically Once again trying to make Jon the center of the entire universe without him even earning anything

Dc will ever understand that jon blew up in popularity not because he was "going to replace" Clark as Superman (in fact the whole kryptonian human messiah power scale was the worst part of Jon intro) It was because he added an element to Clark; Being a father and having to look after a family that was super relatable. Jon superman is so boring and in your face that I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work just like the "Younger generation will be the future" X-men teams.

[Sacred Knight]

However they were to parcel it out and codify it, for me home would be a place where the classics aren't late middle aged family guys/girls ready to hand off the reigns. But I've been barking up that Ultimate/Earth One-Two tree for some time now. It's pretty much the only thing left that they haven't tried to adapt again from the pre-Crisis days. Obviously I'm not in-house so I have no idea if it was ever discussed in the Didio era and simply of no interest to them, or will be now, but I think it'd be worth a try. I think you theoretically hit a lot of buttons that way, and again at least in theory risk a lesser amount of alienation, but that's me.

[HsssH]

At this point I think they should do an “Ultimate DC” that uses the 5G plan. This half-assed attempt with IF hasn’t really worked out, and it’s clear the classics aren’t going anywhere or ceding their spot at the center of the DCU.

Someone asked about doing Ultimate DC for New 52 and Didio said that he wanted to do Ultimate line in general but was not allowed. Supposedly All-Star and Earth One were small versions that he could do, but nothing bigger.

[Vordan]

Someone asked about doing Ultimate DC for New 52 and Didio said that he wanted to do Ultimate line in general but was not allowed. Supposedly All-Star and Earth One were small versions that he could do, but nothing bigger.

That’s interesting given DC has always put more effort into their “evergreens”/Elseworlds as opposed to Marvel. I wonder who was blocking him? Right now DC is making an effort to do more with standalones in the form of minis such as DCeased, DC vs. Vampires, and DC Mech. I can’t see why an “Ultimate DC” line wouldn’t be a good idea.

[HsssH]

But Ultimate Marvel was not a standalone, it had around 400 issues and good number of crossovers. I assume that this is what Didio wanted to do and this is what people mean when they say that New 52 or 5G should have been like Ultimate Marvel.

[DragonPiece]

Didio talks about the 5G plans for Superman here (around 53 minutes in):

-Bendis was involved with Rucka and Zdarsky in plotting out the “last” JL story which wouldn’t kill the old guard off but would give them new roles that made them step aside for the younger generation
-Superman’s powers were fading because as an “energy battery” he couldn’t store as much energy anymore, the Authority were a team he built to circumvent this problem
-Jon and Damian were going to be foes, but akin to Professor X/Magneto where there’s still respect and a bond between the two. Jon and Luke/Jace were not going to be close because Luke/Jace didn’t trust how close to Damian Jon seemed
-Big endgame story for 5G, built up over 5 years, was going to be Clark busting Bruce out of prison where he had been put for the death of Bane, and Jon/Damian/the new Batman would be going after those two. Final showdown between the old guard and the new seems like that would have put a cap on 5G

So was Luke the original 5G Batman or was it Jace? These are 2 different characters.

[Vordan]

But Ultimate Marvel was not a standalone, it had around 400 issues and good number of crossovers. I assume that this is what Didio wanted to do and this is what people mean when they say that New 52 or 5G should have been like Ultimate Marvel.

They started small, it was just Spider-Man, F4, and X-Men. If you kicked things off with just Superman and Batman, and if they succeeded slowly grew from there, I’m not sure why that would be a problem. Perhaps Didio wanted to go all in right away and that put the higher ups off?

So was Luke the original 5G Batman or was it Jace? These are 2 different characters.

It was Luke first but once they recruited Ridley to write 5G Batman, he’s the one who switched it to Jace because Jace gave him more creative freedom.

[Superlad93]

They started small, it was just Spider-Man, F4, and X-Men. If you kicked things off with just Superman and Batman, and if they succeeded slowly grew from there, I’m not sure why that would be a problem. Perhaps Didio wanted to go all in right away and that put the higher ups off?

Chances are it was because of DC being stuck in its ways, and the fear from main universe creative teams. Mark Waid pretty famously had Marvel hold off on Ultimate FF (I think) while he was on FF specifically because of the fear of his title being viewed as the "title for the old guys".

The irony is that creators at DC say that they want to be fresh, new, and of the times, but their go-to is to just simply remix and rip off a classic story which, as DiDio points out, is still very much in circulation. People took his comment about everyone who writes Superman reverting back to how they viewed him as a child to mean he hated the core of what was good about Superman. But the reality is that he saw time and time again how good writers would suddenly become creatively bankrupt when put on Superman because they're writing mainly with that childhood ideal in mind.

And I really, really applaud how observant DiDio was by noticing how people from other countries not just view and write the character, but also gravitate towards the character to begin with. The idea of an outside perspective is so invaluable.

I wish DiDio had looked in his own backyard with this same mentality (which no one else in power seems to share) because you can produce a similar effect by giving Superman to people of color, people of non Christian/ western faith, people of different genders, and people of different sexual orientations. Because that's still quite similar to how people from other nations use Superman as a stand in for what they feel about America. For the people that I've mentioned, Superman becomes a stand in for men/white men/straight white men.

To this day it's still criminal that Christopher Priest hasn't been given a 50 issue Superman run. His words on what he views Superman still ring in my head. The sharpness and formalism that he could've brought to any version of a Superman book can't be overstated, and is akin to the raw imagination that Morrison brought.

The DiDio era likely takes all of the big swings with it. Pour one out for the big homie Dan.

[Vordan]

Chances are it was because of DC being stuck in its ways, and the fear from main universe creative teams. Mark Waid pretty famously had Marvel hold off on Ultimate FF (I think) while he was on FF specifically because of the fear of his title being viewed as the "title for the old guys".

That makes sense from the perspective of Didio letting himself be swayed by what the creative teams thought, but he was rather infamous for being willing to override talent in pursuit of his goals. I can’t see him not pulling the trigger on that idea just because the main universe teams complained. I think it has to be someone higher up the chain stopping him. Perhaps a suit told him that they weren’t willing to find a bunch of new ongoing titles starring characters who already had books, in addition to the ones they had, so he would have to cancel the current universe ones? Or perhaps there were concerns about cost?

The irony is that creators at DC say that they want to be fresh, new, and of the times, but their go-to is to just simply remix and rip off a classic story which, as DiDio points out, is still very much in circulation. People took his comment about everyone who writes Superman reverting back to how they viewed him as a child to mean he hated the core of what was good about Superman. But the reality is that he saw time and time again how good writers would suddenly become creatively bankrupt when put on Superman because they're writing mainly with that childhood ideal in mind.

Saying they want something “fresh and new” is as much a PR line as “nothing will ever be the same!”, it’s there to hook the plebs. The days when they really would do something like that are over, now it’s all about maintaining the status quo. Batman is never getting married and Spider-Man is never getting remarried. Iron Man is freaking dead in the MCU and was married to Pepper Potts + had a daughter, but that’s never happening in the comics. All the classics are going to get their mantles back eventually unless the adaptions skip over them for their replacements.

Yeah I’ve thought about that “everyone who writes Superman reverts to how they were when they were 5” comment. Especially given how often people bring up Chris Reeve and how he was “their” Superman growing up, and how they try to recapture the feeling he gave them as kids in their writing. That mindset manifests as very simplistic “Superman is GOOD because he is GOOD, simple as ” and while some writers have pulled that off (King in Up in the Sky), many have not (Venditti in Man of Tomorrow, Red & Blue as a whole with a few exceptions). Other side of the coin is that some writers attempt to inject darkness and more serious/mature storytelling, but it’s handled with all the skill of a 5 year old who just has Supes act like a dick or turns him into a mass murderer to compensate for the other guys over saturation on wholesomeness. Azzarelo’s For Tomorrow is the poster child for that, a bad story that does have ambition. Why is it so hard to find a medium?

A few have done it: Morrison, Yang, PKJ, Landis in American Alien (what a shame he had to go and be a POS because that book has definitely shaped adaptions of Superman), but it’s rare.

And I really, really applaud how observant DiDio was by noticing how people from other countries not just view and write the character, but also gravitate towards the character to begin with. The idea of an outside perspective is so invaluable.

I wish DiDio had looked in his own backyard with this same mentality (which no one else in power seems to share) because you can produce a similar effect by giving Superman to people of color, people of non Christian/ western faith, people of different genders, and people of different sexual orientations. Because that's still quite similar to how people from other nations use Superman as a stand in for what they feel about America. For the people that I've mentioned, Superman becomes a stand in for men/white men/straight white men.

To this day it's still criminal that Christopher Priest hasn't been given a 50 issue Superman run. His words on what he views Superman still ring in my head. The sharpness and formalism that he could've brought to any version of a Superman book can't be overstated, and is akin to the raw imagination that Morrison brought.

Priest is definitely someone I would like to see write Batman and Superman, the first because he wants it badly and he deserves it, the second because like you I’m curious what he would do. If he’s seen the Reeve films I suspect they hold no hold over his take, ditto for every other adaption. There wouldn’t be a fanboy cloud giving him tunnel vision when writing the character.

I do think Priest would pull Supes apart, and I don’t think that’s necessarily “bad”, long as Priest doesn’t go to the same well as every other Batman fanboy who takes Superman apart solely to shill Bats as better. He writes Supes well in his fight with Deathstroke, he was clever in addition to being strong, and that’s the major quality I want to see. Priest’s realistic approach to writing would be tough to square with Superman, he’s a character who does not fit that style easily, and I think it might require Priest to adjust his writing style, but I would like to see him tackle the job. More than Supes it’s the Rogues I’d be interested in seeing Priest explore.

The DiDio era likely takes all of the big swings with it. Pour one out for the big homie Dan.

He got us Morrison All-Star Superman and their Action run, alongside Bendis of course, which means I can’t feel too harshly about him. I believe that while he fucked up a lot, he wasn’t wrong about the need to shake things up at DC and take risks, or be willing to toss everything out and start over, even if his execution left a lot to be desired often.

[Superlad93]

The days when they really would do something like that are over, now it’s all about maintaining the status quo.

That's what DiDio fought against as best as he could. Would've worked too if it weren't for cold feet and the childishness of creators who had a particular version of the characters they grew up with and needed THAT take to be the only one anyone grows up with. Can you believe that's one of the same exact reasons why the New 52 lost its cohesion after the start? None of this. Grown ass adults who get given real money to write stories about made up flying men deciding that they couldn't play nice with other and NEEDED to inject their childhoods into the current stories even if they it went expressly against the spirit and trajectory of the line.

This is why DC will continue to be Your Dad's Comics (And Hey Look It's Batman) in terms of perception. No sense of cohesion or direction. Just perpetually spitting out the say stories for the same characters. Marvel doesn't have this issue. Not because they're so much more incline to use new characters in familiar roles, no. They're just as bad as DC with that. But they're just a brand that's inherently built different in terms of their perception by the public. They're seen as fresh and new even when they're writing about the adventures of a blonde haired blue eyes white dude from the 30s. Yet you can literally have Clark born in early 80s and he's still going to have the perception that he has. And that's because it's perpetuated by writers and die hards.

DiDio was looking to make a clean break while showing as much respect to the older gen as possible (while not sacrificing interesting story. Because what good would a story be if the characters just stood in awe of the old guys the whole time, or if the old guys weren't people capable of making mistakes?) and setting up interesting and new dynamics for the new gen. Going as far as to not even call them Justice League, but rather Justice Something-Else because that was how the turn over from JSA to JLA worked.

And given the fact that before it was shutdown, WB/AT&T were backing it to the point of being ready to build outside media for it (possibly/if not likely moving it to the movies). But enough doubt and in fighting was sown, and now what're we doing? Dark Crisis? Really? Death of The Justice League!? "It's like Death of Superman but all of them". That's the big trailblazing move? No one is talking about these books aside from the die hards. You probably couldn't ask 10 people to tell you what a Dark Crisis was. You know what would've gotten literally everyone talking like it's fucking comics' Game of Thrones? Superman breaking Batman out of jail and then going on the run from their kids and the law. Those are the type of swings you get from a guy who isn't okay with just getting by and keeping comics above water. He wants people talking-- good, bad, and everything in between. And god bless him for it because that's how you do it.

Seriously. Ram V just got on Detective, and that beautiful run is going to be covered under the mediocrity of this nothing of an era.

Like, c'mon! He had a 5 year plan to it. I can't in good faith say DC or WB have a 3 year plan about anything between them right now.

I honestly don't even know why I came back on here. It's not like I have anymore words for this bullshit. Just truly heartbreaking stuff.

[Thor-Ul]

More Bendis in Superman, no thank you. But this interview is showing how several of the plans of the 5G had been implemented in modified ways as a changing coursefrom what the (disastous) idea was originally was going. With different results as it seems.
I suppose than Zdarsky recycled his original idea for JL: the Last ride
PKJ took the concept of weakened Superman and changed the cause.
But the point where DiDio wanted to take the DC Universe as a whole with a five years jump... that don't worked for the Legion and ended with a reboot. I think that is what DiDia had in his mind again, another reboot and 2024 surely looked as the best moment for that new reboot again.