The Rings Of Power. Wait, come back! It has the Tolkien seal of approval!

[ChrisIII]

What about Cyclons, or Borg, or Jem'Hadar? Other fictional universes have shown that those vicious creatures can be "rehabilitated" once removed from the influence of their brethren or other controlling influence.

Kind of interesting thing about Trek, Klingons and Romulans were never really portrayed as outright evil even in TOS. The first Klingon story after all ended with a treaty (although kind of a forced one), and they made nice in "Day of the Dove" as well.


First Romulan story also had the commander saying to Kirk they could've been friends in another life.

[Username taken]

I hope this is true. No offense to those who like this version of her but due to her blind hatred, she arguably deserves this fate. Hopefully, it will change her for the better.

I'm curious about what happens next.

I still don't buy Adar's bullshit.

[MichaelC]

Even if Adar is full of bullshit, her threatening to murder all of a prisoner's children, making him watch, then murdering him is not the act of a hero. Adar being evil doesn't change that.

[Username taken]

Even if Adar is full of bullshit, her threatening to murder all of a prisoner's children, making him watch, then murdering him is not the act of a hero. Adar being evil doesn't change that.

I don't think Galadriel's speech there was meant to be heroic. It was from someone that's full of rage and driven purely by revenge.

That being said, I don't buy what Adar is selling. Perhaps from his point of view, he believes what he's saying is true since he's corrupted and all.

All the talk about "his children" and how they have "names" just seems like he was trying to be manipulative to someone who wasn't taking the bait (although he already outsmarted her already). Unless the producers are introducing new elements to the orcs, what Adar is saying is nonsense.

I'm curious about what will happen and who Adar actually is.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Ehh……

If the show had tried to make a few of the Orcs relatable, or sympathetic, than maybe I would feel for them. If they had showcased Orc life outside, ya know, raiding, murdering, or massive property damage, maybe I could feel sorry and see a bit of Adar’s view point.

But they didn’t, and I don’t (I also don’t feel sorry for Adar. Dude was used and abused by Morgoth and Sauron, I understand that, but at any time he could stop the violent cycle. He’s not beholden to Sauron at the moment, but instead leads his Uruk the same way Sauron did (as violent murdering machines).

He also had a dude kill a kid, so, you know, not a lot of sympathy here.

Not that Galadriel’s speech made her much better, but she doesn’t exactly go around murdering innocents as of yet (threats not withstanding), so……..


Still wish they had made her even remotely similar to Cate Blanchett’s or the book version of her. Honestly, for me she’s the weakest character to follow.

[MichaelC]

I'm curious about what will happen and who Adar actually is.

They've already made it plain who he is: one of the first orcs, from back when Morgoth was first experimenting and these proto-orcs just looked like ugly elves.

[Username taken]

They've already made it plain who he is: one of the first orcs, from back when Morgoth was first experimenting and these proto-orcs just looked like ugly elves.

Yes but I'm thinking he could be something more seeing he has some history with Halbrand.

[Jackalope89]

Yes but I'm thinking he could be something more seeing he has some history with Halbrand.

Well, he was on that raft for a reason, and proto-Orc guy made it clear, many times over, he doesn't care about the lives of humans. So, something personal, but I still think Halbrand is the future Witch King or Arnor.

[Jared]

*delete delete*

[Jared]

This is true. I feel that in 2022 saying any "race" or species is inherently 100% evil (with no expectations under any circumstances) and should be "wiped out" is not only morally wrong (and undoubtedly racist) it is also narratively limiting.

It's not nearly that simple. If they literally are souless monsters incapable of unforced redemption, wiping them out is arguably the only moral and sane course of action. Is it OK to wipe out zombies? Terminators? Tyranids? Demons from Hell?

Edit - As a great character once said -

"Only Sith deal in absolutes."

But you just did the same thing with your declaration. As did Obi Wan when he said that. "Only a ____ does ____" is an absolute statement. Irony, it spans all time and space.

I think this debate is getting obsfucated.

For the LoTR scholars, were the orcs depicted and described as anything other magically created tools of war? If we are going strictly by what Tolkien described then wiping them out (particularly at the time of the Rings of Power) isn't wrong.

Tolkien himself wrestled with the moral implications of orcs seeming to be an inherently evil species, and never really had a satisfying answer for himself, IIRC.

Ehh……
Still wish they had made her even remotely similar to Cate Blanchett’s or the book version of her. Honestly, for me she’s the weakest character to follow.

They call her Galadriel but so far there's really nothing similar to the movie (or novel) version at all. To get from here to there she'll have to do a complete 180 in personality. Right now she's just Blonde Tauriel; a hot-blooded, vengeance-seeking ass kicker who is starting fall for a mortal. She hasn't even done any magic.

At least with Elrond, I can buy that this is the same guy, just much earlier. We see that he knows the Dwarves well. There's some intimation that he's fought before. He ha ambition to rise above his current station. He's loyal to his friends. Sounds enough like Elrond, Lord of Rivendell to work.

Well, he was on that raft for a reason, and proto-Orc guy made it clear, many times over, he doesn't care about the lives of humans. So, something personal, but I still think Halbrand is the future Witch King or Arnor.

I wasn't much for the Halbrand is Sauron theory. But if Adar wasn't exactly lying then maybe Halbrand is what resulted from when he "split Sauron open".

[Frontier]

They call her Galadriel but so far there's really nothing similar to the movie (or novel) version at all. To get from here to there she'll have to do a complete 180 in personality. Right now she's just Blonde Tauriel; a hot-blooded, vengeance-seeking ass kicker who is starting fall for a mortal. She hasn't even done any magic.

At least with Elrond, I can buy that this is the same guy, just much earlier. We see that he knows the Dwarves well. There's some intimation that he's fought before. He ha ambition to rise above his current station. He's loyal to his friends. Sounds enough like Elrond, Lord of Rivendell to work.

I feel like they're building up to really breaking Galadriel down and rebuilding her into someone more recognizable to past portrayals.

Maybe meeting Celeborn will help.

[Captain Smith]

I'm going to tune back in after the 'big' reveals happen. Who's Meteor Man, where's Sauron, Adar and orc - evil or misguided?

Right now, the conflict seems like a Balkans war - bunch of unlikely folks just fighting.

[Moon Ronin]

I'm going to tune back in after the 'big' reveals happen. Who's Meteor Man, where's Sauron, Adar and orc - evil or misguided?

Right now, the conflict seems like a Balkans war - bunch of unlikely folks just fighting.

I've no idea why they think the "mystery Box" approach is such a great device. I know the producer and show runners came from Bad Robot but its really not working for me.

[Frobisher]

I've no idea why they think the "mystery Box" approach is such a great device. I know the producer and show runners came from Bad Robot but its really not working for me.

Mystery box for something like this is a concern that the writers just don’t have any decent ideas. Like, it’s fantasy, just put some compelling characters in place and let them fight and ****. Severance is a good example of a show where the mystery box is appropriate, as you don’t already know the world and the discovery of it as the characters do is the whole point.

Of course, withholding vital information for an unreasonable length of time is a near neighbour of blueballing the audience on seeing the hero in their costume, or for Surf Dracula to only surf in the final episode.

[krazijoe]

question from someone who doesn't know all the lore, did they just create Mt Doom?
If it was, I thought Sauron created Doom, or is it now lore, that Sauron's machinations created Doom?